DOA5UA 2.00/DOA5LR 1.01 Balance Changes (Location Test)

DestructionBomb

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Akira deserved to be nerfed. He was (and still is) pretty ridiculous compared with the majority of the cast. 12F 2P that's +1 on block? 80 guaranteed damage from landing an 18 or so frame move on block? Some of, if not the best juggle damage in the game, both from CB and from launching in level 1 stun? He doesn't need ridiculous throw damage on top of that, or guaranteed CB from 214P.

I will drop down 11 reasons why this entire post is silly but I will not go there because it takes a shit ton of bricks to do so. Considering that he was solid enough.

A execution-based reward character. Why reduce the award when it's entirety is focused on a base point of given damage and awarding the player notched down advantage. Character is already hard to play. Don't make it even worse simply because of a silly concept.

EDIT: I don't expect any particular buffs for him because why? but he "Certainly" didn't need any golf clubbed nerfs either.
 
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Heikou

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I will drop down 11 reasons why this entire post is silly but I will not go there because it takes a shit ton of bricks to do so. Considering that he was solid enough.

A execution-based reward character. Why reduce the award when it's entirety is focused on a base point of given damage and awarding the player notched down advantage. Character is already hard to play. Don't make it even worse simply because of a silly concept.
Every character deserves to be solid, but no character deserves to be on the verge of stupid, no matter how difficult their execution is. If Akira were mid / low tier, then it'd be time to ask for a buff, but until then, it should be more an issue of other characters being nerfed.
 

DestructionBomb

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Every character deserves to be solid, but no character deserves to be on the verge of stupid, no matter how difficult their execution is. If Akira were mid / low tier, then it'd be time to ask for a buff, but until then, it should be more an issue of other characters being nerfed.

Elaborate stupid. When was Akira ever stupid? Vanilla? Absolutely. 5U? No.

The issue with these type of posts is more of a catering side because people just upright throw out "stupid" simply because of what they see and what they jot down on paper. We will adapt but to see such a ridiculous post as "stupid" makes me think otherwise on what type of player I see these days simply because it caters to ones need.

Once again. Akira did not need a buff but he "Certainly" did not need a nerf.
 

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Tina's buffs are legit. She's less about technique and more about the big numbers. And her numbers got bigger. Exactly what she needed.

Yeah but I liked her more when I could guarantee more things, making her way scarier. And besides, those numbers don't mean much at 300HP. Vanilla had 270.
 

DestructionBomb

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If Akira was "stupid", he'd be a wrecking ball of shits and giggles placing high in every match. But due to execution barrier and respecting the DOA mechanics, it's far from it. I consider him top 10 but according by Heikou on stupid terms..Akira has 6-4 match ups with everyone. Quite stupid if I do say so myself, yes.
 

Heikou

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Elaborate stupid.
Great block pressure, decent mixup in stun, great guaranteed damage from 236P+K / 6P+K on block as well as 1 guess CB setup from 6P+K. Some of the best juggle damage in the game both in deep stun and at threshold, very good throw damage, 12F 2P that's +1 on NH, 14F mid P launcher that covers a lot of range. It really depends on which characters you're comparing him to, because if you're looking to Gen Fu, Sarah, Christie, and a few others, he's definitely solid and has even matchups with them. If you compare him to middle / low tier characters, he has an advantage in basically every single aspect of the matchup.

Why can't they just buff the lower tiered characters and call it a day? I feel like a developer is thinking the wrong way if they're focusing on nerfs.
It's about finding a happy middle, not buffing / nerfing everyone. Didn't mean to make it sound like that.
 

DestructionBomb

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Great block pressure, decent mixup in stun, great guaranteed damage from 236P+K / 6P+K on block as well as 1 guess CB setup from 6P+K. Some of the best juggle damage in the game both in deep stun and at threshold, very good throw damage, 12F 2P that's +1 on NH, 14F mid P launcher that covers a lot of range. It really depends on which characters you're comparing him to, because if you're looking to Gen Fu, Sarah, Christie, and a few others, he's definitely solid and has even matchups with them. If you compare him to middle / low tier characters, he has an advantage in basically every single aspect of the matchup.


It's about finding a happy middle, not buffing / nerfing everyone. Didn't mean to make it sound like that.

Most of the given fact is around situational awareness. The issue here is that he's already point blank "Solid". Yes we want every character to be solid but if we have an individual character who is already at that peak of Solid, there would be no need of placing your fingers on such a character.

Heikou do not take this as your in-depth theory just because you picked up Akira. It is more to it than that.
 
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DestructionBomb

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If anything the Akira cases from what I see, is character unfamiliarity. Not Akira. When someone writes "Stupid" I see it as "A character who can just wreck anything without wasting any effort and lack of imagination+usage of simple stuff that is plain dumb." Akira requires a mindset of already understanding the mechanics and dedication to put in that effort. A reward character.

Yes he has a i12 2P which nets +1 upon NH. But even so, he has to respect the DOA mechanics. It's a benefit, not a sewing machine that will pierce you hard. Granted he can reset a scenario which provides a +1 to his case.

GBoD - 80+ points of damage guaranteed just for blocking. It's a reward for bypassing that execution barrier. GBoD is also a move that can't just be thrown out there considering that it's a high and can be ducked or held.

What I can definitely admit is that Akira holds the candle to massive wall damage and can net guaranteed launches. But it's as I say again and again because the ever so players want to throw out "stupid". It's a execution and reward character. Akira is not a pick up and play character. He would be deemed "stupid" if he was beginner friendly with a shit ton of silly tools. If he "was"...then yes... I would say he's stupid. But obviously he's not.
 
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SweetRevenge117

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Yay, Gen Fu's step killer is now safe! Sad about the delay changes though, they were fun to abuse. Poor Akira. He didn't deserve what he got, but this just reaffirms my decision to drop him in DOA. I guess this is closure.
His step killer was safe now. Its -7. Lol grapplers can throw it...but throwing free cancels is risky anyway
 

Argentus

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I'm slowly understanding frame data and technical terms, but can you guys help me make sure I'm understanding these Mila changes?

1P, tackle cancellation 2P: Change in stiffness difference during normal hit + 2F⇒-2F
4K: Change in short critical in normal hit
1P + K: Change in status squatting from the first frame
Tackle cancel derived (example: such as 4KTH · P): Tackle cancel modified to allow in P · K · P + K button not only H button
2T: Change in damage 30⇒15

So...less advantage when feinting to low punch?
Less stun on the "get the fuck away" kick?
Either an actual animation change for her ducking mid, or something else?
And her Feint got buffed to allow more options?
Less damage for her low grab.


And for Leon

9P: Change to guard rigidity difference -9F⇒-2F
9K: squatting and Fixed counter hit more float had lower
Takedown (formerly wall 66T): The command change in wall 33T. ※ If you grabbed at 33T in the vicinity of the wall, it will change to this trick.

So that means....?

Safer on leaping headbutt?
Launching kick....I don't understand what the hell it means by "squatting" and "hit more float had lower"
And it changed wall takedown to have the same input as standard takedown, I guess?


Did I get all that right, or am I misunderstanding?
 

Force_of_Nature

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I'm slowly understanding frame data and technical terms, but can you guys help me make sure I'm understanding these Mila changes?

1P, tackle cancellation 2P: Change in stiffness difference during normal hit + 2F⇒-2F
4K: Change in short critical in normal hit
1P + K: Change in status squatting from the first frame
Tackle cancel derived (example: such as 4KTH · P): Tackle cancel modified to allow in P · K · P + K button not only H button
2T: Change in damage 30⇒15

So...less advantage when feinting to low punch?
Less stun on the "get the fuck away" kick?
Either an actual animation change for her ducking mid, or something else?
And her Feint got buffed to allow more options?
Less damage for her low grab.


And for Leon

9P: Change to guard rigidity difference -9F⇒-2F
9K: squatting and Fixed counter hit more float had lower
Takedown (formerly wall 66T): The command change in wall 33T. ※ If you grabbed at 33T in the vicinity of the wall, it will change to this trick.

So that means....?

Safer on leaping headbutt?
Launching kick....I don't understand what the hell it means by "squatting" and "hit more float had lower"
And it changed wall takedown to have the same input as standard takedown, I guess?


Did I get all that right, or am I misunderstanding?
Mila
- 1P is now -2 on NH as opposed to +2
- 4K, not sure? It's -5 or -6 on NH as of now and doesn't stun on NH.
- 1P+K may have improved high-crush capabilities
- 2T does 15 dmg now instead of 30 dmg.

Leon
- 9P is now -2 on block as opposed to -9. Yup headbutt will be safe.
- 9K will likely change better combo usage
- 66T will get an input change to 33T.

You pretty much seemed to interpret it as how anyone else would interpret it.
 
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Zeo

Well-Known Member
@Heikou I had to chime in on this before the night ended. DB hit the nail on the head but I had to stress some facts as well. Akira didn't need ANY form of buff but he in NO way needed any kind of nerf either.

I've been using this character since Day 1 DOA5 Vanilla, I've seen some great tools come and go and while I have always believed he was top 10, he has never been a "stupid" character. Only a character as good as the player in his hands. Yes he has all the tools you named on top of the best wall damage in the game but you never mentioned his weaknesses.

- Execution barrier and required battle sense and mindset in order to play. You can list his tools on paper but he requires execution and technique as well as strategy in order to make anything actually happen. There is nothing this character has that would constitute "braindead" and everything has to be used intelligently in order for even him to win a match, especially against a player that knows his weaknesses.

- He hates sidestepping. Yes he has fantastic frame traps but he is largely a single strike character and unlike most of the cast once you side step his ONE attack (unless it's PP) weather not he's at +1 or -5 more than likely you're nailing him with your SS attack because he lacks strings as well as overall tracking. He has a crushable high tracking move, an i18 NOT true mid with a terrible stun that has to be commited to in order to catch a step as using it gives up the offence in place of a guard break, jab or many of the other great offensive pressure tools he has. He has a million frame traps but they aren't that scary when 9 times out of 10 you can sidestep him unless he risks giving up the offense to accommodate that with low reward tracking moves or risk losing a 3rd of his health going for a throw after light advantage.

Gotta throw in 214P while I'm there. CB was NEVER GUARANTEED after 214P. In certain cases after a jab in stun if you used 214P while they were at slight distance, your +19 would become +20 or +21, the latter guaranteeing CB but it was never consistent due to slow escaping slightly shifting the character's hitbox as well as certain characters having slightly different hitboxes from eachother. Every now and again you could get a CB if you were lucky but there was never any specific setup that guaranteed CB through the use of 214P. There was ALWAYS a degree of chance in every iteration of DOA5.

You can talk all you want about Akira blowing up characters in matchups but what he needs to do to win as well as his weaknesses can be combated and exploited by every character in the game due to his design. Yep Akira vs Bass is terrible, but he, like every other character in the game can step Akira after that demonic 2P +1 on NH and unless Akira accomodates by throwing out his only tracking move or using a throw (and risk losing half life) there is nothing he can do but block or throw out a strike and eat an SS attack.

Yes, he has all the tools you need to win, and in the right hands he can beat just about anyone. But he is ONLY as good as the player using him. He is the perfect example of a character based on the players' skill and ability but because of his overall design and not because doesn't have the tools he needs to win and has to rely on player skill (IE. Ein).

This character was stupid in Vanilla because he had a broken throw, at no point since it was removed has he been stupid, overpowered or braindead in any way. He has retarded damage if you work for it, he gets blown up if you play stupid because unlike the other tops, he doesn't have braindead tools or obscene speed advantages to cover player weaknesses and flaws.

Akira is balanced, he didn't need nerfs.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Mila
- 1P is now -2 on NH as opposed to +2
- 4K, not sure? It's -5 or -6 on NH as of now and doesn't stun on NH.
- 1P+K may have improved high-crush capabilities
- 2T does 15 dmg now instead of 30 dmg.

Leon
- 9P is now -2 on block as opposed to -9. Yup headbutt will be safe.
- 9K will likely change better combo usage
- 66T will get an input change to 33T.

You pretty much seemed to interpret it as how anyone else would interpret it.
Cool. With the exception of Mila's 2T, this actually feels more like overal changes than outright nerfs. 1p is just balance (considering it ducks and trips, less advantage seems more like balancing than nerfing), and less stun on 4k can actually be using for baiting, plus its a light tap (and i usually wind up hitting twice in a row with it, the second stun to knock them back. its my panic button lol). Although I'm curious if/how that will change 4k to tackle. Better crushes of 1p+k would be nice, it doesn't seem to actually "duck" under enough as is. And less throw damages seems to be across the board, at least for "simple" grabs.


Anyone else notice that, or am I missing something? It looks like only "fast and small" grabs are getting damage reductions. Or are there any "big" grapples getting lowered damage?
 

ChaolanLegacy

Well-Known Member
Nice to see that most of the characters I'm using/I'll use are receiving buffs.Not like I'm really caring about it,as tiers,characters getting buffed or nerfed never mattered to me,but I'll accept the changes,especially if your main gets some extra stuff to work with.
 

mpgeist

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Cool. With the exception of Mila's 2T, this actually feels more like overal changes than outright nerfs. 1p is just balance (considering it ducks and trips, less advantage seems more like balancing than nerfing), and less stun on 4k can actually be using for baiting, plus its a light tap (and i usually wind up hitting twice in a row with it, the second stun to knock them back. its my panic button lol). Although I'm curious if/how that will change 4k to tackle. Better crushes of 1p+k would be nice, it doesn't seem to actually "duck" under enough as is. And less throw damages seems to be across the board, at least for "simple" grabs.


Anyone else notice that, or am I missing something? It looks like only "fast and small" grabs are getting damage reductions. Or are there any "big" grapples getting lowered damage?
Is it confirmed that 1p+k crushes better? I hope so cuz I seem to have a hard time getting that to crush anything.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Is it confirmed that 1p+k crushes better? I hope so cuz I seem to have a hard time getting that to crush anything.

Until we get a clear translation nothing is confirmed, but I actually manage to crush with it quite a bit (obviously only against Highs, though.)
 
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