Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[Kohlrak]

2) Just to Kohlrak, yes animations are better, the actual characters themselves are for the most part okay, aside from the men being lower poly, and there being quite a few costumes that are noticeably low res with their textures. But the stages, menus, etc are all hideous compared to past games. It all adds up.

Eh? The loading screen for the DLC is terrible, but I don't see a problem with the rest of the menues.

On the story mode though...I feel like they SHOULDN'T have tried, considering they threw the actual DOA story out the window (mostly) in favor of a mini ninja gaiden adventure. The actual tournament was only glanced upon. There may not have been a real story mode in past games, but you stll knew there was a tournament, why each person was there, and what they got out of it. If they do another story mode, they need to stop making everything about the ninjas, its really old now.

What story was there before? This game made the tournament quite clear, but the story of this one seemed kinda like some people weren't quite sure if they should enter or not. It was more like, "eh, what the hell. We'll do it again. It's not like we haven't before." Seems to me like the tournament's getting old to them. Although i hate the ninja story, it wasn't really all about the ninjas. The highlights were, of course, but that's because you can't have an interesting story going on 90% of the time with a 10% story being about Dead or Alive: Clone Wars. And since that setup existed before, you can't drop it. The only thing they can do to modernize the story display method is to tie the ninja story back into the tournament. The days of barely connected story scenes are over and TN saw it and tried their best.

while I do still prefer how doa4 looks, I don't feel this is a fair comparison. That doa5 scene has just soulless stares.

While i find that branch of the story annoying, at least she's doing something normal, as opposed to holding a head of lettuce like it's some kind of inuendo or symbol for her virginity.

One does not need soulful looks while gazing at cabbages

"This head of cabbage is my maiden head. My real head is so shallow with hormone issues, that i want you to take it from me." Either that, or something's going on that i'd rather see Jann Lee being the target. Vegiphilia ftw.

Im still saying that was a bad example though. An expressionless doll making a slight head tilt showed more life than leifangs and jann lees unmoving stares combined lol.

Jann lee looks like he's concentraiting on a thought, something we normally don't see video game characters doing.

Also, when I say doa4 looks better, I meant more than just faces. I was talking about the overall more vibrant image, background, etc.

Now days, those are considered bad graphics. People want the images to smell if they're in a stinky place. The want it to be dark in a burning building filled with smoke. If it's bright out, they want glare. If they're on a subway, they want must, dust, and smog.

 

[Chapstick]

In that particular scene Hitomi wanted to buy a cabbage (blech) but couldn't pay for it IIRC and then Leifang strolled up and bought it and Hitomi was like "" and Leifang was all "" and then they beat each other up and became best friends

I really love DOA's story when it's being silly

 

[Argentus]

In that particular scene Hitomi wanted to buy a cabbage (blech) but couldn't pay for it IIRC and then Leifang strolled up and bought it and Hitomi was like "" and Leifang was all "" and then they beat each other up and became best friends

I really love DOA's story when it's being silly

seriously those backgrounds look like they're from a ps2 lol.

 

[Chapstick]

What, the train that you see once in the entire game? I wonder why a smaller company wouldn't put as much effort into something like that

 

[crapoZK]

seriously those backgrounds look like they're from a ps2 lol.

No, just the quality of the gif is bad.

 

[Corvo792]

I'm starting to think that Argentus is delusional.

 

[Kohlrak]

I'm starting to think that Argentus is delusional.

Delusional or not, he represents more than just himself. Every game with a sequel has this problem, and sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. The question is, here, he this group right or wrong? There are obvious style changes, but once we get beyond the arguments that are clearly incorrect, we can get to what's really bothering him (and others), which becomes the real topic.

 

[David Gregg]

Part of it could be due to 2D fighters. Tekken is having the same issue. There's a small (emphasis on small) group of players in the Tekken community saying that the game should ditch the realistic approach and switch to a different art style like SF or GG. People see bright flashy anime fighters and want to slap it on to every other game. Looking in retrospect, DOA4 from a visual perspective most closely resembles this ideal (bright colorful environments, anime-looking fighters even if they resembled generic plastic dolls more than anything). I think that's why Argentus and a few others are so hellbent on 4.

But imo like everyone has been saying, DOA 5 has advanced the series far more than any other game to date and the amount of pros far outweigh the cons. And I think that TN does acknowledge that people have been requesting more colorful "flashy" stages as the saturation definitely increased and via current gen LR there are more particles and sparks than should ever have been allowed.

 

[Matt Ponton]

not to also forget that Forest and Lost World got a saturation punch from their original forms. It used to be a gloomy forest and a rocky mountain.

 

[Kohlrak]

Loud minority, quiet majority. I like forest, but Lost World can just go burn. I'm worried about DoA and it's future, as well as the future for many games. Vibrant is awesome, mind you, but you need lots of contrast from the vibrant as well. Dark color schemes with random colorful bright lights sporadically placed also works really well. You need lots of variance to keep interest.

Another issue with DoA in general is the complexity factor and consequently the learning curve. i'm not sure how to fix that, yet, but i think that has alot to do with the problems 3d fighters are facing (as in, one of the problems that people are blaming instead of admitting what the real problem is), that no one wants to admit (seriously, what gamer wants to admit they suck?).

 

[Argentus]

Loud minority, quiet majority. I like forest, but Lost World can just go burn. I'm worried about DoA and it's future, as well as the future for many games. Vibrant is awesome, mind you, but you need lots of contrast from the vibrant as well. Dark color schemes with random colorful bright lights sporadically placed also works really well. You need lots of variance to keep interest.

Another issue with DoA in general is the complexity factor and consequently the learning curve. i'm not sure how to fix that, yet, but i think that has alot to do with the problems 3d fighters are facing (as in, one of the problems that people are blaming instead of admitting what the real problem is), that no one wants to admit (seriously, what gamer wants to admit they suck?).

gameplay and learning curves can be a touchy subject, because most of the FGC aren't really concerned with balance or improving games, so much as making (and keeping it) it easier for them to win, and then we get back to that "loud minority" issue.

Part of it could be due to 2D fighters. Tekken is having the same issue. There's a small (emphasis on small) group of players in the Tekken community saying that the game should ditch the realistic approach and switch to a different art style like SF or GG. People see bright flashy anime fighters and want to slap it on to every other game. Looking in retrospect, DOA4 from a visual perspective most closely resembles this ideal (bright colorful environments, anime-looking fighters even if they resembled generic plastic dolls more than anything). I think that's why Argentus and a few others are so hellbent on 4.

But imo like everyone has been saying, DOA 5 has advanced the series far more than any other game to date and the amount of pros far outweigh the cons. And I think that TN does acknowledge that people have been requesting more colorful "flashy" stages as the saturation definitely increased and via current gen LR there are more particles and sparks than should ever have been allowed.

Main issue I'm seeing is that the problem with 5 is that there's literally no excuse for there to even BE any cons at this point. The pros are the mechanics (with the exception of certain things like how FTs are handled, as well as PB, PL, and CB, which I don't think should be kept for doa6), but the cons are all aesthetic features which could and should be changed. They are slowly reverting back to that, like thenew health bars, using old music and stages, etc. Grantest, the aesthetics actually take more time than simply tweaking frame data for patches, but still, Last Round shoulda been all pros with little to no cons.

 

[Kohlrak]

gameplay and learning curves can be a touchy subject, because most of the FGC aren't really concerned with balance or improving games, so much as making (and keeping it) it easier for them to win, and then we get back to that "loud minority" issue.

Or maybe it's just this one. Balance usually is a big deal, aside from tiers. If it was only about winning, wouldn't we see more Christies right now?

Main issue I'm seeing is that the problem with 5 is that there's literally no excuse for there to even BE any cons at this point. The pros are the mechanics (with the exception of certain things like how FTs are handled, as well as PB, PL, and CB, which I don't think should be kept for doa6), but the cons are all aesthetic features which could and should be changed. They are slowly reverting back to that, like thenew health bars, using old music and stages, etc. Grantest, the aesthetics actually take more time than simply tweaking frame data for patches, but still, Last Round shoulda been all pros with little to no cons.

And why should there not be any cons? Better yet, why should everything be YOUR pros?

 

[Macca Beam]

because most of the FGC aren't really concerned with balance or improving games, so much as making (and keeping it) it easier for them to win

I doubt it. Complexity wanking is real. Look at Tekken 7 discussions and any GG vs. BB arguments.

Another issue with DoA in general is the complexity factor and consequently the learning curve.

5 improved a lot on this point, though. I don't remember even seeing a tutorial in 4.

 

[Kohlrak]

That's what's sad. As much as i've complained on here and said that the game needs this or that, i realized that the biggest issue of all is information overload. There aren't many universal tricks that you can use that almost always work. You have to know your own character as well as all the other characters. You have to know their strings to know what could or couldn't come out of it, so you know how to guess the next attack. On top of that, you need to know your glitchy tricks (KBD, Fuzzies, etc). Worse yet, the general gameplay complexity is quite high, as you have sidesteps, holds, throws, etc. You have to know ranges. I used to think that information presentation was why smash bros was so easy, then i realized it's just that smash bros is easy because very little information matters beyond the very basic information. If you can figure out how to play as 1 character, you're good. In DoA, you need to know the whole roster just to be even relatively competent. So many quirks, so much information. I have an idea for how to solve this, but, frankly, it's impractical for the community (it is possible, just insanely impractical [and even TN would have a hard time keeping people on the tutorial]).

 

[Rikuto]

not to also forget that Forest and Lost World got a saturation punch from their original forms. It used to be a gloomy forest and a rocky mountain.

There were a lot of people whining about DOA 5's stages all being dark compared to DOA 4/2U. I imagine that's why the saturation punch came in.

 

[Matt Ponton]

There were a lot of people whining about DOA 5's stages all being dark compared to DOA 4/2U. I imagine that's why the saturation punch came in.

Agreed.

 

[Kohlrak]

Saturation is nice, but only with some contrast.

 

[Jyakotu]

I would assume that the reason DOA5 has a more darker look is because when people think "darker" in fiction, they imagine a more "serious" look. And since TN in the beginning was going for a more serious image for DOA5, the style became more realistic and the overall game became darker as a result. Look at SF5 for example. Notice how much darker it is compared to SF4, which is more cartoony and bright.

 

[Argentus]

I'm just not a fan of the "grim and gritty" approach (part of why i never bothered with Gears of War). Hence my overall preference for older DOAs.

 

[Kohlrak]

I'm just not a fan of the "grim and gritty" approach (part of why i never bothered with Gears of War). Hence my overall preference for older DOAs.

So you prefer bright, happy, and silly, right? I would take it then that you like street fighter's story mode for similar reasons?