By that logic, if it's physically old enough it's ok? If your parts are suddenly working by 12, should that be ok, then? Why 18? Because you need that mental maturity. Instead of being an adult, she's on a selfish warpath. Acting purely on instinct. She is absolutely upset and angry at the world, so she's trying to destroy it. This proves my point, she's a 10-14 year old who's butt naked. Teenage women who are having hormone issues are known for these traits, except they normally don't have teleportation powers or the ability to fly (i still wonder why she doesn't fly around and go all superman on everyone by picking up objects to throw at those she know is probably going to kill her). Maybe her personality is a bit exaggerated, but, clearly, someone was a little upset at their daughter that day.
Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”
- Thread starter RoboJoe
- Start date
By that logic, if it's physically old enough it's ok? If your parts are suddenly working by 12, should that be ok, then? Why 18? Because you need that mental maturity. Instead of being an adult, she's on a selfish warpath. Acting purely on instinct. She is absolutely upset and angry at the world, so she's trying to destroy it. This proves my point, she's a 10-14 year old who's butt naked. Teenage women who are having hormone issues are known for these traits, except they normally don't have teleportation powers or the ability to fly (i still wonder why she doesn't fly around and go all superman on everyone by picking up objects to throw at those she know is probably going to kill her). Maybe her personality is a bit exaggerated, but, clearly, someone was a little upset at their daughter that day.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
I think that you misunderstood me, I wasn't getting in no account the sexual matter related to the character (by the way technically Alpha-152 is missing genitalia), my point was uniquely about that I think is wrong to see her as a 10-14 years old judging it from her mind. She doesn't want destroy everything for hormone issues XD, neither because she hate the world: she want destroy everything because is a berserk and this is the only thing that she can and want do, that is a very different thing. Alpha-152 doesn't make reasonings, there is no reason because she want break the ninja - she doesn't appear to get orders from Donovan - from what we know she can do it and so she want do it (and it's this one of the main differences with Phase 4, that has the possibility to doubt about this kind of path just because owning a normal human mind). It's wrong to say that Alpha-152 act as a newborn baby, because the latter acts exaggerately trying to get something without making use of any inhibitions, while all this mindset is completely absent in Alpha from what we know (or at least I realized). But anyway it's just a shame that TN has never emphatized this trait of Alpha-152 personality, only depicted into manuals but never truly showned in game through the evidence of her actions (she gives only in part the idea to own a brutal side).
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
@Kronin: You'd say the same about Mileena from MK9, right? You know, Kitana's "clone." 9? I mean, MKII (1993, before DOA) since that's where we first see her, but 9 especially. (S/O to Karen Strassman)
You've played the game (I assume) and have seen that part in the story where Kitana is shocked to see "herself," only to realize she's looking at a monster! "Come! Let us be a family!" ("You will die by my hand!" Who says this and to whom?)
Shao Khan's "creation" of Mileena is identical to DOATEC's creation of Alpha! A weaponized Kasumi - Shao Khan I'm sure wanted the same - a weaponized Kitana (no pun intended)
If you look at how Mileena carries herself, acts, etc. Yes, she has the mouth/teeth of Baraka, but Shao Khan is of Tarkatan blood himself. Mileena's creation revolves around Kitana's mother Sindel (whom Quan Chi resurrects and manipulates) and her late husband, Harold. Shao Kahn killed him and married Sindel. Kitana is even ashamed to admit that "He is her father!" to Liu Kang's surprise! Khan's daughter rejected him, pretty much.
But it's quite obvious what NRS did here. One is good, the other is bad. If we go deeper: we could say Mileena is "misunderstood/misguided," she, too acts childish, is "evil" (Netherrealm/Outworld inhabitant) I would call it mischievous while Kitana is obviously not. But her mother, Sindel, has been both. In MK3, she seemed evil period.
And here we have Phase 4. How old is she? And isn't she under DOATEC's influence as well whereas her leash isn't as tight as it is with Alpha? And Mileena is under Khan's control, too - in case you missed it! Remember, how Kitana isn't and didn't want to be. Imagine if they (NRS) created a second clone in Phase 4's predicament: Leash not too tight, yet not too loose?
You've played the game (I assume) and have seen that part in the story where Kitana is shocked to see "herself," only to realize she's looking at a monster! "Come! Let us be a family!" ("You will die by my hand!" Who says this and to whom?)
Shao Khan's "creation" of Mileena is identical to DOATEC's creation of Alpha! A weaponized Kasumi - Shao Khan I'm sure wanted the same - a weaponized Kitana (no pun intended)
If you look at how Mileena carries herself, acts, etc. Yes, she has the mouth/teeth of Baraka, but Shao Khan is of Tarkatan blood himself. Mileena's creation revolves around Kitana's mother Sindel (whom Quan Chi resurrects and manipulates) and her late husband, Harold. Shao Kahn killed him and married Sindel. Kitana is even ashamed to admit that "He is her father!" to Liu Kang's surprise! Khan's daughter rejected him, pretty much.
But it's quite obvious what NRS did here. One is good, the other is bad. If we go deeper: we could say Mileena is "misunderstood/misguided," she, too acts childish, is "evil" (Netherrealm/Outworld inhabitant) I would call it mischievous while Kitana is obviously not. But her mother, Sindel, has been both. In MK3, she seemed evil period.
And here we have Phase 4. How old is she? And isn't she under DOATEC's influence as well whereas her leash isn't as tight as it is with Alpha? And Mileena is under Khan's control, too - in case you missed it! Remember, how Kitana isn't and didn't want to be. Imagine if they (NRS) created a second clone in Phase 4's predicament: Leash not too tight, yet not too loose?
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I thought this thread was about about Itagaki and not aquafresh?
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Are we sure? There's alot of questions to be answered about her still somehow being somewhat human but missing certain things. I could go on about how she can't possibly see without eyes, yet they seem to function. I could say that maybe, being made out of whatever she is, she can retract things, or like in the case of phase 4, instantly transform certain traits out of herself. Whether or not that actually changes things is really up for a debate, but only in a very private setting. First we have to establish what she even is, but until that and other questions are firmly answered, the only logical conclusion is what is right infront of our faces: she's completely nude.
ah. Well, neither are teenagers. I'm just saying from a semi-philosophical point of view, she has the body of someone who has "come of age," but laws and such have the age of consent for the reason that mental maturity doesn't not come as swiftly as physical maturity. While she's actually 5, for the purposes of pedophilia, law, and moral philosphy, she's pubescent. She has the body, but not the mental maturity.
Has she stated as much, or are we speculating? I didn't have the game she was introduced in, but dimensions left me feeling that she was quite mad and vengeful, but dimensions skips alot of details.
As far as i know, we don't know that. Did she come out of the machine like that, or was she the creepy teenage girl with the 3 year old voice just transformed? If the latter, absent of other explanations, the only logical conclusion is that she's holding a grudge. I'm making that assumption in absence of information, simply because that's what we typically see in villans of her type. Especially from Japan, it's really rare to see a villan without a reason.
My guess is, she's an under-developed character, because her very existance is to show the evils of weapons of mass destruction, which she arguably is. Remember, this is from Japan, and Japan is still pretty sore about the A-Bomb. Heck, that's what Godzilla was all about: a lizard turned powerful and evil because of nuclear technology.
I love you for this comment. But really, it spawns from the idea that he created characters like this, which it's arguable the game could be marked AO or even banned entirely by ESRB, then complains that there's too much sexuality.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
What?
Virtua Fighter got away with it, Itagaki could certainly get away with it. In fact he made the exact same character. Dural was a ninja captured by an evil corporation for her power to turn her into a monstrous weapon. Kasumi is a ninja that was captured by an evil corporation for her power and was cloned to make a weapon, the clone was turned into a monster.
To explain what is missing.
I have no experience with this character whatsoever, so i have nothing to say in particular, aside from asking the obvious questions.
And how old is this ninja? Is this a 5 year old clone? Actually, to answer some of this myself, i decided to read up on her. She is a cyborg, with a certain percentage of her body (although what percentage is not stated) as no longer even organic. That said, it's questionable whether or not she is wearing something. That said, she's old enough to have kids, so she's presumably over 18 by the time we see her. Naked? Possibly, or perhaps not. Jailbait? Nope.
Seriously guys, you can talk about Jello girl and dural for days if you want. But I think it's best that we stay on topic and discuss...you know...Itagaki stuff? 
x Sypher x
Active Member
Thanks for the video Awesmic!
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
No, what is it she transforms? "Certain traits"? Phase 4 only teleports and kicks really fast
Ah, the memories of when G4 was worth watching. I remember Icons, which later changed to Game Makers.
MeadowSpirit
Active Member
Cool video! Thanks! I think I saw Raidou in there somewhere, and a lot of the information in the video was new to me. I stopped playing and following the DOA series when it went exclusive to Xbox. I didn't know at the time that it would be over ten years later when I finally played a DOA game again.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
for perspective's sake, lets look back on what would pull you in with previous games.
Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate
Dead or Alive 3
Dead or Alive 4
Dead or Alive 5
Itagaki knew how to make a game look GOOD! I still say he should come back as like, Art Director for doa6 or something.
Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate
Dead or Alive 3
Dead or Alive 4
Dead or Alive 5
hahano
Itagaki knew how to make a game look GOOD! I still say he should come back as like, Art Director for doa6 or something.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
So by this logic then with the examples you've provided, all Last Round needs is an attract mode and/or cinematic opening and then it would be perfect.
Problem solved and no need for Itagaki.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
my point was more that the man was an amazing showman, and he really delivered on DOA being "fighting entertainment".So by this logic then with the examples you've provided, all Last Round needs is an attract mode and/or cinematic opening and then it would be perfect.
Problem solved and no need for Itagaki.
Also, we both know that the new team wouldn't be able to make an attract mode or good cinematic opening lol. There's nothing to show off, in game, (gameplay alone is boring to watch, and all the stages and visuals are meh), and i'm not sure they have enough stylistic talent to really make a good cg opening vid.
actually, thats not true. the gameplay in the attract vids i linked looked awesome. Its just that DOA5s vids just show titties and juggles, very little gameplay or anything else. Plus they'd probably pull a MKX and put the vid to hilariously inappropriate hiphop lol. (Actually, I suppose DOA5 is already guilty of that...)
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
And fighting on a raft carrying the fighters toward the edge of a waterfall or hitting your opponent off of a temple of secrets boulder isn't fighting entertainment to you? K.
Which again...is entirely your opinion and to be frank while it would be nice to have an attract mode it is a very minor aspect that shouldn't be the determining factor of whether a fighting game is good or not.
Moving the camera around all over the stage makes any fight look more interesting especially when they last for only 10 seconds which is what the attract modes of previous DOA's did. Try moving around the camera for yourself some time in 5 when watching matches if that's what really keeps your interest. In terms of the actual fighting itself, you can interact much more with the environment in 5 and mechanics like power blows and cliff hangers make matches more interesting imo than any previous game could provide.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
...missing the point.
ugh, fuck it whatever.
but on "can interact much more with the environment"....are you shitting me? Power blows are super specific with only a few scripted events that can happen, same with cliffhangers (of which there's only, what, two or three? DOA games used to have stage breaks and transitions all over the place). There's surprisingly little to interact with in doa5. Stages are empty, power blows and cliffhangers are just scripted events, no more stage break throws or anything, not too many stage transitions, stages are generally generally pretty ugly, which hurts things even more. Not a lot going on in doa5, which makes it hard to have showcase/attract vids.
And those kind of vids help to bring in new people. Something DOA has a notoriously hard time doing. Especially now, where we REALLY need an actual gameplay vid, not just cutscenes and gravure like they show all the time. Even when they do show gameplay, its rarely the fighting like shown in the attract openings of past games, its mostly just combos and juggles. Not showing much of the actual gameplay like past games did. (Like vids for Phase 4 and Nyo, for example).
An attract mode/opening vid isn't a "minor detail", its helps to draw people in, gets them interested.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
@Project Bokuho My bad, indeed I wanted just say something as a sidenote without opening an off topic. I close here the discussion, even because I realized that it's very hard to talk about the argument without entering in a speculation realm.
@Argentus: To be fair, DoA5U has already an attract movie and it's the one included in the Arcade version.
While definitely something different from the past games, for me is more than good and I would be pretty glad to get it (but it's just something nice that could give a better presentation of the game, not anything of necessary at least for me).
@Argentus: To be fair, DoA5U has already an attract movie and it's the one included in the Arcade version.
While definitely something different from the past games, for me is more than good and I would be pretty glad to get it (but it's just something nice that could give a better presentation of the game, not anything of necessary at least for me).
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Play the story?
That first one looked really awesome until alpha came in to make it weird. Being totally out of place didn't make her any less weird.
He knew how to make a game look good, but also awkward.
DoA4 is violating this, just saying. It's just, you made me realize where they pulled their arguments from. It's a good thing i got dimensions and learned what the game really is before seeing these advertisements. DoA5's advertisements are teh same thing, only with more bells and whistles and FLASHES.
I'll give you the stages, thing, but Manny pointed out really well that it's the result of pushing dadlines harder. But the rest, i don't knwo if you have itagaki blinds, but none of these advertisements would've ever worked on me. MKs don't, either. And don't get me started on smash bros. I like the game, but i don't even want to play after seeing the advertisements. The only game that really has anything going for it is street fighter, and that's only because the music you hear makes you want to get up and punch someone, but not as an insult to the music.
I have to say, this one hurts, too. It's better, but i don't see a reason why to buy the game with this one. At least, unlike the rest, i don't see a reason NOT to buy it.