DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[PhoenixVFIRE]

I'm sorry, but Itagaki sounds so bitter...

DOA isn't anymore sexual than it has been in the past under the reign of Itagaki.
I mean seriously, where does anyone think the idea of Bikinis and shit fetish DLC came from? Itagaki.

If he could've done it then, he would've and he knows it, he's just trying to play the blame game on the current TN.

I wasn't able to watch the Colbert video, it wouldn't even load? DOA may have always been sexy, but it's rep went from not as bad to crazy and laughable when DOAX happened, and I wonder who made that game?

Jeez, people these days just don't want to deal with their own actions, always gotta blame.

The current TN has to step it up and stop the fetish DLC and start coming out with quality, well made and thought out outfits and stages for DOA. I think the only costumes on the girls that I just outright hate and think are just BLEH are their fucking dental floss bikinis, that shit ain't cute.

 

[DestructionBomb]

There's a "OMG" mode for shits and giggles. If that isn't implemented as sexual then what is? It could of been a believable thought if they had other modes such as Bobble head mode, Big Head mode or hilarious sound effects mode to avoid such claim. Overall, it's a "Fighting Game.". As such, it needs to be treated as one.

And then we have those Gravure videos where they do nothing but play in the god damn sand for over a minute with a price of well over $3 and a waste of digital space. I was expecting Leifang to start bashing on a tree as a training exercise or Rachel to pick up a tree as a spear to go stab a shark with it.......In a bikini and keeping their slightly open chest shirts and cleavage material, but that's none of my business though.

 

[Argentus]

Kind of side-tracking my own topic, but it may be good for comparison's sake. Would you care to elaborate? I've played all of the mainline KOF's and I can't think of anything too egregious that isn't Mai or maybe King and Yuri's shirts getting burned off (I mean, if they did that for all of the Art of Fighting characters, then okay. But, they didn't). Soulcalibur..., well yeah. I think that there's a difference in long term marketing that separates them from DOA, though. I'll go into that when I make my long-winded post later.

Well, off the top of my head, sadomasochistic Vice, crawling and moaning and arching her back during moves, Shermie's stripper poledancing leg attacks, Whip (dominatrix/sadomasochism attacks) Athena's fetish costumes, Elizabeth's tits hanging out of her unbutton top for no PARTICULAR reason, etc. Plus all the more subtle details like Mai's bouncing tits, the way the girls sway in their idle stances so their dresses and skirts flutter up, etc.

Then MK9 has Sheeva and Mileena feeling themselves up during winposes, plus Mileena's makeout fakeouts, plus Jade's stripper pole moves with her staff, plus EVERY outfit is essentially a bikini, etc.

Soul Calibur, clothes are transparent, Ivy is a straight up dominatrix, Taki has visible nipples and cameltoe, there's even a porn star voice option for create a soul, etc.

Skull girls.....yeah. Just Cerebella.

Rumble Roses...just...yeah...

lesee what else...Girl Fight....i don't play Tekken so I can't comment there.

 

[Darkton93]

My avatar says it all. DOA constantly talks about how it's "A Fighter" when acting like a model. In fact, I'd like to go through a brief history lesson.

DOA has always been focused on the girls, but it's usually been more subtle about it. In DOA1, each male character that wasn't Raidou got five costumes, while the girls had closer to seven or eight. The PS1 version upped that number considerably to around 14. Sometimes the costumes were unique, like Leifang's chinese dress, but there were some swimsuits in there, too. Plus there was nude Kasumi in the intro to the console versions.

DOA2 had the best balance. Aside from a couple of nude Kasumis in the intro (one for vanilla, two in JP Hardcore) and the CG gallery, the balance was pretty good. There was a good balance between the males' costumes and the females', and each iteration added more. While there may have been some fetishy ones (schoolgirls, Tina's C4), they were mostly tasteful.

DOA3's sexuality was restricted to the "She Kicks High" ad and Christie's ending. Aside from that, there was basically no sexuality in it. The cast only got around two costumes, four if you had the Booster Disk, and none of those costumes were particularly fetishy. It really took itself seriously.

But then DOAX1 came out. This was where the game's reputation started to falter. It was the first DOA game with an M rating, which would become then norm for the series. We even had magazines giving out April Fools Day nude codes. This was just shallow.

But it sorta recovered with DOA2U. While the girls got most of the new costumes, there was an attempt to be serious with Hayabusa's Ninja Gaiden costumes. There were a few swimsuits, but they were small in number.

DOA4 was a mixed bag. The girls became more stereotypically moe, with bubbly personalities, Kasumi fawning over Nii-san, and almost all the girls endings had a lot of sexuality in them, with Leifang being groped on a train, Kasumi dreaming of herself being a naked mermaid, and Hitomi's topless dance. The only girl's ending I can think that wasn't sexualized was Ayane's. On the bright side, the costumes were tasteful. While the girls had more, some girls, like Christie, had about as many as the males. However, this also started the trend of Christie getting skimpy outfits, as opposed to her butler suit and trenchcoat.

And then we got to DOAX2. Butt battles, poledances, breasts that move independently from each other, it was a complete farce. This was where the perverted image of the game really started to sour the franchise.

DOAD was an improvement. It had a mere T-rating and mostly tried to be serious. The costumes, even the DLC ones, were tasteful and relevant. There was more of an attempt to take itself seriously.

And finally, we come to now DOA5's long reign. Originally, the game promoted itself as a serious game, trying to call itself, "A Fighter" and focusing heavily on being a triple-A title with more realistic faces and tournament-friendly stages. But then the fans complained, and TN's response was to turn the fanservice into overdrive. Preorders came with swimsuits for each version. Collectors Editions had perverted extras like boob mousepads and more swimsuits. We have six costume packs that are dedicated towards swimsuits. The word "sexy" is used several times in the titles of these packs. For most of the month, packs are always fetishy DLC, with bunnies, Santas, gym clothes, nurses, all coming to a head with FUCKING TOWELS. Every DLC character is a girl, with one being a converted male character. (Nyotengu from Bankotsubo.) Interviews focus on the "Soft Engine" which is all about making the boobs look better. Videos from TGS focus on bouncing breasts, with players losing on purpose to see the sexy lose poses.

This is sexist in both ways. It's sexist against males by given them basically nothing. It's sexist against females by portraying them as sex objects. These are not the actions of "A Fighter." This is more like a model, or rather, a whore. It parades the girls bodies like there's nothing better about them. Itagaki never went this far in the mainline games, he restricted it to the spin-offs. Now it's right here, shoving it's ass right in our faces.

If TN wants to be taken seriously, then it's hard to see. These actions are making them look bad and making them the joke of the industry. People who play guys like Bayman and Leon are given the shaft, while girls are only being used for their bodies. It's a fucking joke! And it needs to stop. Otherwise, DOA will die again from poor reputation. And do we really want that?

#ImAModel

 

[werewolfgold]

I wasn't able to watch the Colbert video, it wouldn't even load?

Huh. Well, here's the quote. "Yes, video games are loaded with male fantasy stereotypes, like all the girls from Dead or Alive, Tifa Lockheart from Final Fantasy 7, and Ms. Pac-Man. No, she can gobble my ghost anytime." It's really a throwaway quote, but it happened.

Athena's fetish costumes, Elizabeth's tits hanging out of her unbutton top for no PARTICULAR reason, etc.

...You mean, like Helena's DOA2 outfit? I'm pretty sure that's just a French style of shirt. And which of Athena's outfits are fetish outfits?

Soul Calibur, clothes are transparent, Ivy is a straight up dominatrix, Taki has visible nipples and cameltoe, there's even a porn star voice option for create a soul, etc.

Porn star voice option? I think I missed that one. lol

But, I don't really create too many characters.

 

[Argentus]

Huh. Well, here's the quote. "Yes, video games are loaded with male fantasy stereotypes, like all the girls from Dead or Alive, Tifa Lockheart from Final Fantasy 7, and Ms. Pac-Man. No, she can gobble my ghost anytime." It's really a throwaway quote, but it happened.


...You mean, like Helena's DOA2 outfit? I'm pretty sure that's just a French style of shirt. And which of Athena's outfits are fetish outfits?


Porn star voice option? I think I missed that one. lol

But, I don't really create too many characters.

its still tits hanging out for no reason lol. And its not even like Helena's outfit. Helena's just has a window for her cleavage. Elizabeth's is a normal top unbuttoned to let her tits hang out. Athena, just the fact that she's changing outfits during her supers lol.

And porn star option is the standard "sultry" voice where everything is said in innuendo.

 

[werewolfgold]

its still tits hanging out for no reason lol. And its not even like Helena's outfit. Helena's just has a window for her cleavage. Elizabeth's is a normal top unbuttoned to let her tits hang out.

Not quite. There are no buttons there at all really. lol

Spoiler: Elisabeth Blanctorche

You're right. It's not quite the same. But the concept of how the shirt works is similar.

Spoiler: Helena Douglas

 

[oMASTER LEGENDo]

The Damage has been done the real problem is will they stop the answer is no as long as we have people blowing up twitter about anything that is not helping the community grow further as a "Fighting Game" ask yourself this question how do you see DOA5LR In the next 5-10 years in the Fighting game community is the numbers growing. People who are fine with the Sexualization not all but "Majority" will not go offline or consider playing this game seriously how are we going to make sure that everyone who looks at our game wants to play it in order to grow the community. At this point we really shouldn't even be worrying about this in the first place, but it's a huge block of why players laugh at our game i hope one day DOA in general can be played without anyone making fun of us for playing it because of the sex appeal i rather them make fun of you for not punishing a move or something.

 

[Kasumi]

I think they missed a big chance to change people perception about the franchise with DOA5, the promotion of the game went from serious fighter to tits bouncing and bikinis, but I guess they realize that people buy DOA for that, only a very small group of people play DOA for his gameplay.

The problem now is that if they go serious with DOA6, people will complain, there is no easy solution. DOA will always be a niche franchise and most of the people buy it for the eye candy, TN has 2 choices, embrace that or try something different that will probably pull away some fans.

No matter what they do, I hope they never release DOAX3.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

The Damage has been done the real problem is will they stop the answer is no as long as we have people blowing up twitter about anything that is not helping the community grow further as a "Fighting Game" ask yourself this question how do you see DOA5LR In the next 5-10 years in the Fighting game community is the numbers growing. People who are fine with the Sexualization not all but "Majority" will not go offline or consider playing this game seriously how are we going to make sure that everyone who looks at our game wants to play it in order to grow the community. At this point we really shouldn't even be worrying about this in the first place, but it's a huge block of why players laugh at our game i hope one day DOA in general can be played without anyone making fun of us for playing it because of the sex appeal i rather them make fun of you for not punishing a move or something.

First impressions are hard to let go of. I mean, you probably thought i was garbage when we first played - just to put things in perspective. However, as you see, I've changed, It seems like DOA hasn't. yet, there is a problem when something does take itself too seriously - the other extreme you don't want because it will end up laughable. Therefore, maybe KT and TN are just laughing with us. idk! Not to throw away how they heavily embrace sexuality, but at least they take it seriously compared to us. Again, we rather not discuss it unless its in the form of "pillow talk!" Even then, we don't take it seriously unless it's to spaz about how wrong and/or indignant it is - again, outside the bedroom where we act like cats fighting, fondling and goodness knows what else over a ball of yarn! (Don't you say shit, Combo! XD!

@Kasumi: It's ironic you say that given the tag they're using right now. Are you trying to say that DOA has an identity crisis? I can't say you'd be incorrect, but it's their fault really. They should have decided on one image and stayed there. Fuck who leaves them!

That's the problem with all the other shit going down - DLC, lack of content on last gen, lack of a physical product! Quit trying to be everything to everybody - you will always piss somebody off this way! If you stick to your guns, if the folks that don't like it come around, great! If they leave, fuck them! That's stupid! If I write a show targeting women, men ought not get upset! I didn't say they could watch, but they aren't the demographic I was going for either. Same if I reversed this. Or I could write for both genders, but if I didn't I wouldn't ignore the other just because - that's being bias! (This is why hardcore fans get upset because of the constant catering to casuals! It's happened before and will continue to happen. Likewise, the fetish costumes are for pervs, but nothing for the non-pervs. So, you're targeting pervs? Gotcha! Logic!)

 

[CFW]

I don't understand the comparisons to Soulcalibur at all here...

A lot of the issues with costumes in SCIV were acknowledged by the SCV producer, because even he thought it was a little too much. Compare the designs in SCIV to SCV. I won't consider Lost Swords (which is the experimental hella expensive messy fanservice) promotion anything to look at, but a lot of this mess has to do with marketing and the target audience. What exactly is a porn star voice tho? You mean the bonus character Shura who's possessed by an evil spirit? If ur mad about it, there's also a flirty voice in SCV.

Let's ask a few questions:
Why is there an option to alter the breast animation? Why are there 30 seconds + footage of each female character sensually doing things at the beach? All these swim suits? All these DLC outfits that are extremely ill fitting for some characters? Why are all the boobs huge? Why are they working on breast animation even more? Why the dudes don't looks as good as the women in this game? Swim suit packs everywhere?

One of the things that really got me interested in this game in the first place is the gritty realism, I remember wanting the alpha demo so bad because I thought the game looked so new and fresh and WOWOW. I was so here for the serious tone of the game, but they messed up and now they're over saturating here.

There needs to be a change. Sex appeal is fine, cool, all the characters I main in fighting games have massive sex appeal but it's just way too much here. It's all people talk about. Everywhere. All over. I didn't have this feeling when I was looking at Dimensions or DOA4, but here's 5.

 

[Yurlungur]

I'm just going to state this here and now
Having your tits flop around and possibly give you a black eye isn't "sexy" nor do i think that's sexualization

I dunno what that is but i can assure you nobody ever said "GOD HER TITS ARE MADE OUT OF JELLO, THAT'S HOT"

ok, carry on

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

There's a "OMG" mode for shits and giggles. If that isn't implemented as sexual then what is?

Hold the fucking phone, OMG mode is supposed to be sexy? Since when?!?!

 

[werewolfgold]

The Damage has been done the real problem is will they stop the answer is no as long as we have people blowing up twitter about anything that is not helping the community grow further as a "Fighting Game" ask yourself this question how do you see DOA5LR In the next 5-10 years in the Fighting game community is the numbers growing. People who are fine with the Sexualization not all but "Majority" will not go offline or consider playing this game seriously how are we going to make sure that everyone who looks at our game wants to play it in order to grow the community. At this point we really shouldn't even be worrying about this in the first place, but it's a huge block of why players laugh at our game i hope one day DOA in general can be played without anyone making fun of us for playing it because of the sex appeal i rather them make fun of you for not punishing a move or something.

Duuuuuuude, this needed far many more periods than you gave it. lol

 

[DestructionBomb]

Hold the fucking phone, OMG mode is supposed to be sexy? Since when?!?!

Since it started jiggling.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I'm just going to state this here and now
Having your tits flop around and possibly give you a black eye isn't "sexy" nor do i think that's sexualization

I dunno what that is but i can assure you nobody ever said "GOD HER TITS ARE MADE OUT OF JELLO, THAT'S HOT"

ok, carry on

I'm so done!!

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Since it started jiggling.

So you say Eiken is supposed to be erotic with it's beachball level jugs?

 

[oMASTER LEGENDo]

Now I'm bored time to play VF
@Intelligent Alpha
@DestructionBomb
But you know that Lowleveldrama XD

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Now I'm bored time to play VF
@Intelligent Alpha
@DestructionBomb
But you know that Lowleveldrama XD

You know it! XD

 

[werewolfgold]

@Intelligent Alpha @oMASTER LEGENDo I dunno what you're talking about but it doesn't even seem tangentially related to anything. Cut it out.

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

Spoiler: Uhhhh...

At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.