"Pedestal Mentality": How it Hurts the FGC

[Rikuto]

I think you guys assume we know more than we do, and are purposely hiding things from you the majority of the time. That's not really it.

Usually, the major difference between the good player and the bad player is the ability to read patterns, whether they are through movement, hit levels, or delays. That's not something we can teach or bring to your attention with ease. Some people find it through talent, some find it through repetition. It isn't a thing you teach though, and its what separates the top from the middle in every fighting game.

It's not elitist mentality, exactly...but if you aren't good enough yet to understand a meta that can only be seen through incredible effort and experience it is really difficult to communicate any of these things without confusing you guys and sending you down the wrong path.

In the past I've attempted to talk yomi, and it just confuses people. I don't see myself trying again anytime soon. When you're not ready for it, it will mess your game up. When you are ready for it, you don't need someone telling you what to do.

My philosophy is to give them combos to work with and let them figure the rest out. That's part of the struggle.

 

[Cake]

What's this Team BEST?

http://freestepdodge.com/threads/prince-adon-brings-to-fsd-team-best.4261/
http://freestepdodge.com/threads/team-best-doa5u-training-on-psn-xbl.4337/

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I thank you for your kind words, but I don't have a PS3, at least yet. Thank you very much for offering though.

No problem dude, I don't gots da XBL Gold . Get a PS3, um... we've got Core Fighters xD! Which unfortunately comes with a side-order of Core Fighter scrubs -_-.

 

[Cake]

No problem dude, I don't gots da XBL Gold . Get a PS3, um... we've got Core Fighters xD! Which unfortunately comes with a side-order of Core Fighter scrubs -_-.

if and when I get the PS3, I'll get the full game. In fact, I should already have it (because I was supposed to buy the PS3 now but some stuff came up), but for some weird reason, this one time the worthless delivery company for amazon in Portugal decided they couldn't deliver it.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I think you guys assume we know more than we do, and are purposely hiding things from you the majority of the time. That's not really it.

Usually, the major difference between the good player and the bad player is the ability to read patterns, whether they are through movement, hit levels, or delays. That's not something we can teach or bring to your attention with ease. Some people find it through talent, some find it through repetition. It isn't a thing you teach though, and its what separates the top from the middle in every fighting game.

It's not elitist mentality, exactly...but if you aren't good enough yet to understand a meta that can only be seen through incredible effort and experience it is really difficult to communicate any of these things without confusing you guys and sending you down the wrong path.

In the past I've attempted to talk yomi, and it just confuses people. I don't see myself trying again anytime soon. When you're not ready for it, it will mess your game up. When you are ready for it, you don't need someone telling you what to do.

My philosophy is to give them combos to work with and let them figure the rest out. That's part of the struggle.

That yomi guide didn't confuse me, lol.

 

[Brute]

Everything I say confuses someone. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying things entirely.

There will always be those who understand you and benefit from what you contribute and those who don't.

 

[Kohlrak]

if and when I get the PS3, I'll get the full game. In fact, I should already have it (because I was supposed to buy the PS3 now but some stuff came up), but for some weird reason, this one time the worthless delivery company for amazon in Portugal decided it couldn't deliver it.

If you want to take the CF route (which is cheaper if you can't buy the disk used), you can buy what you need NOW via the PSN store's website. When you get your PS3, all you have to do is download it.

Everything I say confuses someone. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying things entirely.

There will always be those who understand you and benefit from what you contribute and those who don't.

You'll find the later just need more information or for the same information to be presented in a completely different format (hands on learners vs read learners).

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

See? This is the type of thing more communities need: Players being humble, being honest and try to help out others.

This is the main reason why I cannot stand any of Capcom's communities in general: Not everyone is bad, but the vibe is so toxic, it rubs off of every other community BECAUSE they are mainly seen as THE FGC.

So seeing this does make me hopeful, especially if people actually take it to heart rather than on their sleeve.

 

[Cake]

If you want to take the CF route (which is cheaper if you can't buy the disk used), you can buy what you need NOW via the PSN store's website. When you get your PS3, all you have to do is download it.

They returned the money, I ordered it again lol.. (was supposed to be spent anyway)

 

[Kohlrak]

They returned the money, I ordered it again lol.. (was supposed to be spent anyway)

Why'd they return it?

 

[Cake]

(...) but for some weird reason, this one time the worthless delivery company for amazon in Portugal decided they couldn't deliver it.

dude prolly couldn't find the address and went derp.

 

[Kohlrak]

dude prolly couldn't find the address and went derp.

Oh sorry, forgot that line. I practically just woke up with only 3 ours of sleeps XD

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I'll stick to my elitist guns, personally.

Advice from bad players has rarely raised a decent crop in my field of screams.

I actually never saw this post, lol. This is exactly why players like you and myself need to contribute more here. So the bad and fraudulent tech is pushed aside (discussion is always good and you can always point out the flaws) so more legitimacy is documented.

I learned a lot from my one on one conversations I've had here with you and Xdest. Same for my conversations with Punishere (online and in person).

I look around here at FSD and think to myself "this place could be a lot better if we pick up the slack". There are plenty here willing to learn. The level of play by the majority is very low but has potential to grow and become moderate (even moderately high) if players are approaching this game more soundly. Because most really aren't.

Of course, some are bad eggs and give off that bad vibe, but some (like Awesmic) know how to promptly deal with that. Others really do want to get better. Better, more sound content by some really helps. When someone has a question, someone should be there to answer it.

 

[Awesmic]

Of course, some are bad eggs and give off that bad vibe, but some (like Awesmic) know how to promptly deal with that..

Since you called me out, what are you implying before I accuse you of trying to demonize me?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I'm not demonizing you. I said you know how to reason with people better than others.

 

[Awesmic]

I'm not demonizing you. I said you know how to reason with people better than others.

Oh, OK. the way it was worded threw me off.

 

[Brute]

Was worded pretty clear to me. The parenthesis were put after the comma, indicating they referenced the latter group.

Anyway, I understand the concept of Rikuto's approach, and ultimately he should do what he considers best when in comes to playing the game. However, community-wise, the "word-is-law" approach is counter-productive. Do what will when it comes to your own feelings, opinions, strategies and approaches, but don't impose them on the community without valid backing and expect everyone to nod their heads and get in line.

For clarification: I'm not accusing Rikuto of doing that. Just tying it back in the the general thread topic.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I actually never saw this post, lol. This is exactly why players like you and myself need to contribute more here. So the bad and fraudulent tech is pushed aside (discussion is always good and you can always point out the flaws) so more legitimacy is documented.

I learned a lot from my one on one conversations I've had here with you and Xdest. Same for my conversations with Punishere (online and in person).

I look around here at FSD and think to myself "this place could be a lot better if we pick up the slack". There are plenty here willing to learn. The level of play by the majority is very low but has potential to grow and become moderate (even moderately high) if players are approaching this game more soundly. Because most really aren't.

Of course, some are bad eggs and give off that bad vibe, but some (like Awesmic) know how to promptly deal with that. Others really do want to get better. Better, more sound content by some really helps. When someone has a question, someone should be there to answer it.

I like this post. It says it like it is without bringing anyone down, and focuses on being constructive. The greatest challenge with the DOA community stems from the notion that the average knowledge-level of most players is considerably lower than where it should be compared to other FG communities. Once we find a way to raise the overall knowledge-level and eliminate any scrub-minded tendencies, then tech can be maturely discussed with minimal reservations.

A suggestion from me would be to emphasize fundamentals and the elements of 3D fighters as much as possible. Believe it or not, DOA has just as much depth as other fighters once you start to break down the system. Emperor Cow's Tutorials vids did an excellent job of describing DOA's system mechanics and quirks back in DOA5 vanilla. I say that it served as a good starting point. We just need to find a way to take things to the next level in this community.

 

[Tenryuga]

One thing we have to understand is that because this game is so accessable this is the first fighter for many of our players. Like Force said when we are explaining things 8 times out of 10 the person we are talking to has no idea what the definition of fundamentals, footsies, free cancelling, frame advantage, punishment, hit confirming etc etc the list goes on is. This site does have a list of terminology but let's be honest how many people do you think know it exists or even looked at the thing more than once?

Also tutorials are great however teaching a player what to do in a game is not the same as teaching them what NOT to do among other things. As many resources there are for teaching the game there are not many that tell you "Hey when you are safe it's best to take a defensive action such as BLOCK (70% of PSN does not know this button exists.) SS, hold, or crushing attack (at your own risk)."

This is especially important because of the way DOA online is. It's a shitty situation because 1. People don't know what NOT to do and 2. DOA online let's you do WHATEVER you want to do. So players develop these unorthodox and unforseen playstyles that make no sense then convince themselves it does with the only explanation for why it isn't being "It's DOA online."

As for discussion yes more of it needs to go on and players need to be more open to other reasoning and ideas. As Brute posted earlier sometimes it legit does go like:

Intermediate Level Player: "Hey I think X." Top Player: "You're wrong here is why....." Intermediate Level Player: "You haven't considered this....." Top Player: "I can beat you in a fight / fight me so I can prove it. You're wrong trust me on this." Intermediate Level Player: ".....". This is somewhat detrimental to discussion because every skilled player has the ability to play the "I'm better than you in this game / fight me" card and immediately shut down any discussion because really how do you respond to that when it's true? How exactly do you figure out what's true and what's not from a fight that's guaranteed to be one sided?

If people want to be stubborn you guys can agree to disagree. Perhaps in the future your discussion will cause players to do their own testing and come back to report results that support either side. Which is the entire point of discussion. To be informed and weed out any legitimacy and truth so that it is available for others.

 

[GreatDarkHero]

Here is something that might be related:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...-will-teach-even-if-it-means-theyll-get-beat/