Max536Drago
Active Member
Well, you could always try to crush the rising kick. There are only 2 now, plus the invincibility while doing them has been lowered.
Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes
- Thread starter Berzerk!
- Start date
-Truth be told, vanilla 5 was barely broken down, and 5U even more so. Trust my words, some stupid shit will be discovered within these upcoming couple of months and years to come. The game will not be as we know of it now!
-Shit we still play the game mainly 2D like with Free stepping for positioning! Side Step is going to be one of the major factors in rewriting DOA play! String manipulation is going to take a back seat to singular strikes....and one-two string hits. Counter strike launchers are going to prevail over trying to reach max threshold for high launches. Knockbacks are going to be used often to create space. Knockdowns are going to be used to force ground game scenarios. Competitive Players are going to use the stun system to actively control their opponents defensive options, and dictate desired results. Proper usage of Spacing is going to be utilised along with heavy use of whiff punishment, along with baiting and punishment. Punishment is going to make or break players. Those who consistently punish mistakes will move futher along competitively.
-Trust me, what I say will come to pass, and there will be a hell of a lot more happening than what I stated. DOA5's system is very robust and will allow for sophisticated, intricate...prolific high level play. Lmao, I have yet to be wrong with My hunches...aka preminitions.
-Shit we still play the game mainly 2D like with Free stepping for positioning! Side Step is going to be one of the major factors in rewriting DOA play! String manipulation is going to take a back seat to singular strikes....and one-two string hits. Counter strike launchers are going to prevail over trying to reach max threshold for high launches. Knockbacks are going to be used often to create space. Knockdowns are going to be used to force ground game scenarios. Competitive Players are going to use the stun system to actively control their opponents defensive options, and dictate desired results. Proper usage of Spacing is going to be utilised along with heavy use of whiff punishment, along with baiting and punishment. Punishment is going to make or break players. Those who consistently punish mistakes will move futher along competitively.
-Trust me, what I say will come to pass, and there will be a hell of a lot more happening than what I stated. DOA5's system is very robust and will allow for sophisticated, intricate...prolific high level play. Lmao, I have yet to be wrong with My hunches...aka preminitions.
Maybe in the perfect world, but I severely doubt that DOA play would evolve into this if it hasn't already. I mean how long has the franchise been around for? About 17 years?
During DOA5 existence, how often was sidestepping utilized? I'll give you a hint, if you watched the average match, you'd barely think it even existed. The sidestepping in DOA5 was shoddy and it seems equally shoddy in DOA5U. I don't expect its usage to ever really increase. It also doesn't help when there's characters like Christie who's linear strings fucking track into you anyway. To help make regular sidestepping more viable like in SC or Tekken, for instance, lose the goddamn tracking on linear strings to make tracking moves standout more.
Honestly, I get away with a lot of stuff as Kokoro 'cause people don't sidestep. And then they do step and I do something dumb like like 5PP6P and it somehow hits 'cause it realigns somehow even though none of the hits track.
-Hmmm, lets see. DOA did play this way pre DOA4, with the exception of Side stepping. 3.1 came very close with SS, but no cookie rewarded for that.Force_of_Nature said:
-You are absolutely correct in stating that SS is not perfect in DOA5/5U. However, it is far from shit-useless. The truth of the matter, the last time SS(FS-Dodging) had any effective use in competitive DOA play was over 8 years ago. No one except the very few who have stayed with the series remember its usage. Shit, I made it very known you can Side step and even Free Step Dodge in 3.1(The very name sake of this site we are currently using!). Even I have trouble implimenting it into My game. Not because I cannot effectively use it, but because it is currently foreign to My style of play. It is in fact foreign to all the top players as well. The look and feel of high level play is dictated by those high level players. Trust, once its adopted by them, it will be a mainstay gameplay mechanic.
-I do not know if you were here for the transition between DOA2U to DOA4. For the first 2 or so years, everyone played the game like it was DOA2U. Than the top players like Rikuto, Mamba and Perfect Legend came to the realization that the game had to be played guess heavy, with the abandoment of all learned previous DOA skill. What's in bold is paramount! 7 years of this forced bad habitual play stunted the growth of the competitive community. Now with DOA5/5U, the competitive scene is relearning what is true DOA play. It is going to take 2 or so years(I pray for a much shorter recovery) for the look and feel of High Level play to excel.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
virtuaPAI said:
I came from a SoulCalibur background so I know what effective sidestepping looks like. DOA3 did have decent sidestepping mechanics but DOA4 ruined that. So DOA5 did kinda feel back to square one in that regard.
I was essentially eluding to notion that sidestepping appears useless in DOA5 because of the lack of proper distinction between linear and non-linear strings. The Move Details specifically labels moves as "Tracking" or "Non-Tracking", however, I have constantly been hit by strings that have no moves classified as "tracking" while performing sidesteps. In SC, or even Tekken, if you sidestep a linear string, NO part of the string retracks into you.
The reason why sidestepping isn't utilized more is because it feels like there is unnecessary risk attached to its usage with all the retracking on linear strings. I can guarantee in a year or 2, sidestepping won't be utilized much more than it has already been. It also doesn't help that sidestepping is complete ass online too, hence why characters like Kokoro can feel like a pain in the ass to fight, when in reality, she's below average offline. Don't forget also that the average DOA player kinda just mashes buttons instead of technical fighting. In about 1 or 2 years, that probably won't change much.
However, I'd love to be proven wrong in this regard and would be all for sidestepping being an integral part of DOA5U play (hence why I prefer 3D fighters to 2D fighters), but with the current direction the series is going in, I can't see that happening. My top two things to be updated in DOA5U is a more effective sidestep mechanic and a faster crouch speed.
David Gregg said:
Now it all makes sense! I never knew that (not being sarcastic).
LOL!
Max536Drago
Active Member
@TeamNINJAStudio #DOA5U Please do this. Every strike (except for lows), even if they don't stun on NH should leave you at at least +1 on hit. @TeamNINJAStudio #DOA5U I think DOA is a very realistic fighting game, but the fact that Ein's 3P on normal hit is like -2 is really stupid. @TeamNINJAStudio #DOA5U Moves in this game are used to hurt BAD, so how in the world does a strike that hits leave the attacker at negative? @TeamNINJAStudio I don't know why I didn't realize this until now, but that needs to change. +1 at least Team NINJA, it won't effect balance. @TeamNINJAStudio #DOA5U Just think about it. You are telling us that the player that lets his guard down should be rewarded.
Make sure you don't check Kokoro's 2K on normal hit, then.
-I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have been playing DOA competitively for 11 years or so. Not only that, I have been studying the series for just as long. Many things the series was said not to be capable of, were proven incorrect many times over again. For example, it was said to me that Side Stepping(SS) was not even possible in 3.1. Characters like Gen Fu had great SS, that almost broke the game. Free Step Dodging(FSD) was also utilized in the absence of having a true SS. My point, SS in 5U is going to need the same amount of attention needed to master SS as it did to effectively use FSD in 3.1. For the most part, when Higher Level Play is fleshed out, there will be less use of string manipulation( a lot more Throw/Launch mix-ups...etc.), and more singular strike usage(like 3.1 and 2U). The use of more singular strikes open up the effectiveness of SS, as well as the use SS at the ending of strings to maximize its effectiveness. Its overall usage will increase tremendously! It should be noted that buffering a SS from a FS increases the effective range of the SS!
-Like I said, I see this changing in the future. No player has a true grasp of the HLP within the game as of yet. There is far too much DOA4 shenanigans still being used. There is still far to much missed combos, juggles, and lack of proper punishment. Oh as for crouch speed, if You hold
and tap (or )you should crouch in 1 frame!
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Saber
Well-Known Member
Then it's your fault for landing it on NH in the first place. Ein's 3P is strictly an anti-SS tool, nothing more. It has instant tech crouch like 2P, but the ONLY reason you'd use it over 2P is if you predict a SS. And all of you already know that a tracking move that hits a SS-ing opponent results in CH where they get proper frame advantage and a small stun.
But on the topic of all lows being +1 on hit, no. Lows with follow ups would be broken and moves would be severely imbalanced.
And speaking of SS, it'll only ever be useful if the recovery was decreased. The only effective sidesteps so far are command sidesteps. The regular SS sucks, and the automatic re-aligning makes it even suckier.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Are you sure you aren't talking about a different move? 3P is a linear mid that loses to jabs and SS during my 2P frame traps. Fast lows dont need frame advantage on NH but some strikes definitely do. It's stupid if I hit you with PP but have to end my offense if I don't go into whatever limited or unsafe mixup options I have.
Tell that to Kokoro players. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to know that SSing is apparently useless if you're 90% of the cast.
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
That was kind of surprising to see on TFC stream. Not even a 6T or nothin'... I think hearing the commentators mention it made me do it more.
Though sometimes it can ruin random online relationships, when you throw punish their unsafe moves, and suddenly they start getting real throw happy...
... say, does the ingame tutorial ever actually mention punishing with throws? I think there was a short line on disadvantage and that was it.
You can cancel a crouch dash/make a crouch dash defensive?Oh as for crouch speed, if You hold
That's interesting...
I mean I don't see why
can't just be 1 frame but... I mean, whatever...I'll keep it in mind...
Max536Drago
Active Member
I said all moves should be advantage on hit "except most lows", dude. And Ein's 3P tracks? Really? I don't think so, you might wanna check that again.
See... this is why I like MaxDrago. He never gives up, and he's not going to stop unless he has the last word.
I fought his Hitomi in ranked with Alpha. He really came at me hard. He's one of those few people that expresses his own personality in his game.
lol Anyway, yah you tell him!
I fought his Hitomi in ranked with Alpha. He really came at me hard. He's one of those few people that expresses his own personality in his game.
lol Anyway, yah you tell him!
^That's what she said.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
I've had kokoros pull full 180 realignments.
They need to make ss actually useful by making things stop autoadjusting all the time. When I ss, that should be the end of it unless a, its a horizontal attack, b, or they stop attacking to realign. Grabs and counter ss beating ss is still fine, though I think they should be low grabs since you duck as you ss.
-LMAO. We all have to step up our game. It is so very hard coming straight off DOA4.
-Not really. There were a lot of things not present in the in-game tutorial. but I guess it is up to us the community to make more indepth tutorials...like the wonderful work Emperor Cow have done for Vanilla 5.
-Yes sir, very much possible. I like it this way, gives players regular and advanced ways to move. Also, in fuzzy guarding during a Nitaku situations(Forced Guess between a fast mid launcher and High throw), your opponent may throw out a slower attack/throw where a slower crouch would be beneficial!You can cancel a crouch dash/make a crouch dash defensive?
That's interesting...
I mean I don't see why
I'll keep it in mind...