System Force Techs in DOA5U

[Matt Ponton]

Wasn't sure where to put this in the strategy section, and my information is limited since I only play one character. But here's something I noticed about how force techs behave in DOA5U.



In vanilla DOA5, it was possible to connect with most lows and register them as force techs just as the opponent hit the ground no matter how they're knocked down. In DOA5U, this mechanic was gimped across the board, leaving only the ability to use some low attacks as force techswhen the opponent is knocked down facing forward.



For Christie I found out that if 6k is used while the opponent is in critical threshold, the opponent doubles over, leaving a small window to force tech the opponent to the side with 2k, as opposed to 2k coming out as a soccerball kick. 1p also seemed to connect in the same manner, but I couldn't get anything additional after that. h+kkk, while unsafe and predictable, can also be followed up with a force tech if fully connected.



This is all I figured out for now. If anyone else wants to test this theory out for themselves with their specialized characters and contribute to the thread, feel free to do so, 'cause I can't do it alone.

 

[Awesmic]

There was a reason I didn't post this here yet. I didn't want to get blown up badly for making this topic in case I screwed up somewhere.

But if you think it's legit...

 

[Saber]

I only found one pseudo force tech for Momiji (there's more which you can do from her DJ P) but it's an awesome one. I'll re-post it from my post in the Momiji combo thread.

60dmg NH, 84 damage Hi-CH.

String delay to your advantage:
Use 1P directly after Double Jump Throw. If the opponent techs, don't follow up with K. Leaves you at +10.

If opponent doesn't tech, use the K follow up. Gives you +16.

 

[qoodname]

Going for the ''double over'' at max threshold is, in my personal opinion, not viable because you suffer way too much dmg for a not guaranteed force tech BUT if a move causes a ''double over'' at max threshold it should cause a ''double over'' if used back to back in stun aswell. Ground bounces behave the same way like the ''double over'' so im assuming that you can play the force game in general under certain conditions which seem to be that the opponent is lying on his belly with his face to your feet. I havent tested that yet so dont quote me on it.

 

[MasterHavik]

I think Zack may have one.

 

[Awesmic]

Havik, it's the same as before. 2kkkkk works, but the only difference is now you have to confirm whether the opponent won't tech if they double over from 6k on critical threshold. It's situational, but it's good to know the option is there.

 

[MasterHavik]

Havik, it's the same as before. 2kkkkk works, but the only difference is now you have to confirm whether the opponent won't tech if they double over from 6k on critical threshold. It's situational, but it's good to know the option is there.

Oh okay. I was trying it and thought it didn't work, but it still does. You're right once Awesmic. Funny thing if I end a combo with 3pp and they don't tech Zack is at +10. Also it seems if you land a 2H+K on the ground it leaves at +15.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I've done some testing.
Just to confirm.
Force techs seem to work only after the following situations:
- a face down head forward knockdown
- after a ground bounce
- some rare cases of long floaty juggles such as leifangs pp4p.

So far I was only able to detect pseudo force techs, meaning that the opponent CAN tech roll out of the situation before it happens, however cannot do wake up kicks.

..
On a side note however, I think there might be a potential possible true force tech after hitomi's 3H+K untechable knockdown but I havent had the time to test it.. can someone please test it out abd confirm?

 

[MasterHavik]

I've done some testing.
Just to confirm.
Force techs seem to work only after the following situations:
- a face down head forward knockdown
- after a ground bounce
- some rare cases of long floaty juggles such as leifangs pp4p.

So far I was only able to detect pseudo force techs, meaning that the opponent CAN tech roll out of the situation before it happens, however cannot do wake up kicks.

..
On a side note however, I think there might be a potential possible true force tech after hitomi's 3H+K untechable knockdown but I havent had the time to test it.. can someone please test it out abd confirm?

Those first two bullets points, so Zack's in theory 2kkkkk should connect since 6pp is a face down knockdown and ground bounce.

 

[synce]

Some guaranteed FTs are still possible in 5U, probably an oversight on TN though... once they find them they're gone lol

 

[MasterHavik]

Some guaranteed FTs are still possible in 5U, probably an oversight on TN though... once they find them they're gone lol

Oh boy...

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Some guaranteed FTs are still possible in 5U, probably an oversight on TN though... once they find them they're gone lol

Care to share some examples?
Ive been so busy lately, havent had the time to go too in depth with the game yet

 

[Saber]

There are still some true FTs in this game. Off of the top of my head, Sarah can still get one after her 4H+K ground bounce by following up with 6H+K, and Hitomi, when she does 66H+K at max threshold followed by 3H+K.

We seriously need FTs back. I hate having to space everytime I end a combo when I could have kept being in the opponent's face like how a proper rushdown should be.

 

[d3v]

Was actually talking to some VF guys who post on both SRK and VFDC and the consensus was that they didn't see why folks were raising a stink over force techs since being able to limit peoples options on wake up is only natural when playing competitively.

 

[Tenryuga]

I liked force techs because they provided frame advantage and dealt with wakeup kicks. I don't mind them being gone but it would be nice if the attacker had more options than the mid / throw / delay / cancel game. Anyway now that I know that it is possible to get some advantage on people who want to just lay there I'll be finding setups to abuse this for my characters. Thanks Awesmic; really nice discovery.

 

[FakeSypha]

On a side note however, I think there might be a potential possible true force tech after hitomi's 3H+K untechable knockdown but I havent had the time to test it.. can someone please test it out abd confirm?

You can no longer do 3H+K, [2]KK. The 2 lows will whiff. What I do now is her down attack, 2P. I believe it's guaranteed. The opponent can't tech and can't do a wakeup kick either.

But it's not a force tech... so, well... yeah. That's it.

 

[Saber]

You can no longer do 3H+K, [2]KK. The 2 lows will whiff. What I do now is her down attack, 2P. I believe it's guaranteed. The opponent can't tech and can't do a wakeup kick either.

But it's not a force tech... so, well... yeah. That's it.

Which really sucks because unlike grapples, Hitomi doesn't have a down throw, so all this move will basically do now is whiff punish and give you some breathing room instead of previously where she could have gotten a force tech (+17, mind you) and continue pressure. At least grapplers can still get damage off of their ground throws.

Reason why FTs no longer works in DOA5U is because the opponent has COMPLETE INVINCIBILITY from strikes except down attacks the moment they hit the ground. The invincibility frames last for a set amount of time before you can actually hit the downed opponent, and by then there would be no point because they always have the option to tech backwards and avoid it completely, which can sometimes leave you at disadvantage instead.

At least you have PFTs to deal with the wake up kick, but even then, due to invincibility frames, they won't register as a hit and will whiff completely, especially after a regular launch. There's no way to properly continue pressure unless you're Leon or the VF characters who have proper +frames on block.

I'm wondering who are the geniuses who thought it'd be a great idea to remove force techs across the board and make the pace of the game incredibly slow and unexciting as compared to before.

 

[SilverForte]

Hmmmm, is this really such a big deal? As I recall forch techs didn't exist in doa before 4.

 

[Brute]

I can live with force techs being in or having them absent. What irks me, however, is this funky, inconsistent system we have now. I'm tired of having my old juggles not connect with the final low sweep (I used to use them for auto-techs). They don't have to tech now, but I'd at least like the hit to register so that I'm not stuck with some ridiculous recovery frames from whiffing if the opponent tech rolls. And the silly thing is, sometimes they do connect. It's just usually they don't.

Other things are totally random as well. For example, after failing the Shoho then before you could use 7K as a pseudo if the opponent didn't tech up immediately. Now, this whiffs and doesn't tech. But, it can tech in some other situations. 9K will psuedo tech after a failed shoho, however. Similar bullshittery happens after several attacks and the timing on when someone can be force teched and with what attacks so far appears totally random, and this is after extensive testing.

So to be quite honest, yes. It's really ticking me off. I consistently get stuck with long recovery frames becuase what I do should really FT, but sometimes the game just doesn't want to let it. I'm at wits end with this shit. Now combined with my frame advantage nerfs, it feels like TN hated the idea of giving me any offensive pressure whatsoever.

I appreciate Awesmic's research on it, and I'll begin testing. But if true, why have it so gimmicky? And if not true, why is it still so gimmicky?

 

[LoK N Ki]

How did it go again, good offense should be rewarded with more offense...
TN probably wants players too not get rewarded too much for opening people up so it can go back and forth, same reason TN loves the holds.