News We Can Get There, But...

[J.D.E.]

In my humble opinion, the 1st thing that people need to do is stop putting DOA in SF's shoes. Stop trying to make it into what SF is as a community. Yes, I want it to get to E-Sports & would love for it to have its own thing, but just demanding money just because Street Fighter is so huge with Capcom Pro Tours isn't going to cut it. I think we can forget DOA being into E-Sports. SF earned that respect. Capcom gives it back to them by having the special event which is Pro Tours. Team Ninja has done this for us too, but is not well-received by the majority of the community, just the ones who actually go to events. People here bash Capcom & SF, but it's not their fault that they have a huge amount of people who loves their games enough to support them.

You can't say that Team Ninja haven't done anything because they have. Several times. Honestly, they gave us $8000 for a pot bonus for TFC along with tournament qualifiers for it with DID, Winter Brawl & such, but 65 showed up to compete for it. That is not that good. It's been said many of times what needs to be done. It shouldn't just take a huge pot bonus from Big E or Team Ninja to go to an event. a local, a regional, or a gathering. We need more support. More people playing offline in tournaments. More people actually taking the game seriously instead of just "specific purposes". I mean literally, some of the same people who get pissed off about DOA not getting enough stream time, telling people to go to tournaments, telling people they do nothing, & they should are the same people who need to practice what they preach to people (& stop being hypocrites). If you can't travel, then that sucks & it's understandable, but an individual not being able to go doesn't outweigh the overall odds of others going when they're able. You have some who don't & won't go even when they can afford to & argue about a character & such (but don't want to prove it). Plus there's a lot of fight among ourselves too.

People are doing the best that they can, but it can't be just several people. Like this thread, it's been talked about over & over again. Not saying that Blank is salty because I know that you're not since we had a Skype Party (with others) watching the Pro Tours tournament, but now you have people who are salty because of what they have & what we don't have. Complaining about it isn't productive. We have to earn it. Can't do it on our own. The community "is" growing, but at a steady pace, not a rapid one. Just like Tekken imho will have increased numbers when Tekken 7 releases even though their numbers with TT2 is falling off.

 

[crapoZK]

In my humble opinion, the 1st thing that people need to do is stop putting DOA in SF's shoes. Stop trying to make it into what SF is as a community. Yes, I want it to get to E-Sports & would love for it to have its own thing, but just demanding money just because Street Fighter is so huge with Capcom Pro Tours isn't going to cut it. SF earned that respect. Capcom gives it back to them by having the special event which is Pro Tours. Team Ninja has done this for us too. People here bash Capcom & SF, but it's not their fault that they have a huge amount of people who loves their games enough to support them.

You can't say that Team Ninja haven't done anything because they have. Several times. Honestly, they gave us $8000 for a pot bonus for TFC, but 65 showed up to compete for it. That is not that good. It's been said many of times what needs to be done. It shouldn't just take a huge pot bonus from Big E or Team Ninja to go to an event. a local, a regional, or a gathering. We need more support. More people playing offline in tournaments. More people actually taking the game seriously instead of just "specific purposes". I mean literally, some of the same people who get pissed off about DOA not getting enough stream time, telling people to go to tournaments, telling people they do nothing, & they should are the same people who need to practice what they preach to people (& stop being hypocrites). If you can't travel, then that sucks & it's understandable, but an individual not being able to go doesn't outweigh the overall odds of others going when they're able. You have some who don't & won't go even when they can afford to & argue about a character & such (but don't want to prove it). Plus there's a lot of fight among ourselves too.

People are doing the best that they can, but it can't be just several people. Like this thread, it's been talked about over & over again. Not saying that Blank is salty because I know that you're not because we had a Skype Party (with others) watching the Pro Tours tournament, but now you have people who are salty because of what they have & what we don't have. Complaining about it isn't productive. We have to earn it. Can't do it on our own. The community "is" growing, but at a steady pace, not a rapid one. Just like Tekken imho will have increased numbers when Tekken 7 releases even though their numbers with TT2 is falling off.

This.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

A lot of excellent points have been brought up in this thread but I will say that in order for DOA to make it to some equivalent of "E-Sports" the game needs to receive the proper representation that it deserves from the community. What this means is that DOA players need to make a concerted effort to support DOA in the form of:

Stepping outside your comfort zone and:
1. Setting up and/or attending offline local casual gatherings
2. Setting up and/or attending offline local tournaments
3. Attending Major tournaments both within your province/state or outside your province/state
4. Promoting the game in your region, or slightly beyond, such as through a Facebook group, Twitch or a Youtube channel
5. Communication with Team Ninja with respect to improving DOA's offline representation and representation to both the casual community and the FGC (I.e. Helping them improve the game for the better instead of whining over costumes, or online bullshit for instance)

I will let you know right off the bat that DOA's problem in regards to its representation in the FGC actually isn't about its online netcode or the boobie fanservice. The online netcode is only a problem if you rely on it to "get better" at DOA. IMHO, You can't properly get better at DOA online because what's legitimate and what's bullshit gets distorted into a filthy contaminated cesspool. You won't start getting better at this game until you play offline, consistently at either local gatherings or tournaments (both local & majors). I know for myself that I have personally levelled up tenfold in the last 14 months. If I was just playing online, I'd still be implementing the same laggy bullshit that I was using when I was a scrub back in DOA5 Vanilla. If you play offline consistently, you will experiencing results in the future.

I see people whine and moan about the boobies or titty DLC in DOA, but did you know that almost every single FG has some sort of fanservice in it, besides something like VF? (Which still has its share of cheesiness lol). The tits on display is not why people avoid DOA in the FGC, it's the lack of people that step up to show what DOA looks like when it's played legitimately. When I look at most people's online matches, I see illegitimate nonsense majority of the time. How do you think that looks to an outsider from the FGC? "Pffft DOA, that's just a mashy RPS Titty Fighter". How does DOA looks to an outsider from the FGC when a legit match is being put on display? "HOLY SHIT! This game looks mad hype, can you teach me how to play?" And then they forget that this game has giant bazongas flinging about. If you think the "tits" or the fanservice is the problem, you're missing the bigger picture.

DOA's problem is that its own community does not put forth a large enough effort to support the game and level themselves and its community up. They focus too much on relatively trivial matters such as the netcode or the fetish DLC, when the real problem has always been a lack of support from the players. Team Ninja, IMO, have done an absolutely phenomenal job at supporting DOA5U through the incredible Road to TFC tournament series, their thoughtful costume contests, additional character reveals, and a fucking arcade release! (I cannot describe how much an arcade release helped out the Japanese community who KNOW how to level up a community compared to Westerners). So you cannot blame TN or accuse them of not doing their part. It's our turn to do our part!

If you are physically incapable of attending local offline gatherings or offline events & tournaments, that is understandable. In that case try to make use of points #4 & #5. Support the game community from the sidelines and do what you can. Playing and getting frustrated online won't help anyone. Creating gameplay and character tutorials will. Sharing tech will. Teaching newer players will. Producing dialogues that focus on DOA in the FGC will. And so on and so forth. To put things in perspective, I have just dealt with the most obnoxious 6-day-per-week work schedule over the last 4 months and have attended every local tournament, started a weekly tournament series, am the most consistent individual to offline casuals, and attended an out-of-country Major (SJ8). I also feel I earned the right to call myself the 2nd best Ayane in the DOA5U tournament scene.

If DOA wants to get anywhere close to something resembling "E-Sports", then we, the DOA Community, need to STEP THE FUCK UP! And start doing what's necessary. Nothing is impossible...

 

[THE_WORST_KOKORO]

Permanent Solution to a temporary problem... genderbend all the characters.

Genius.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

You guys can stop it with the DOA is a button masher and sex appeal excuses. Anyone with a real brain will see that you cannot button mash, I will kill you so fast for that offline.

Sex appeal is in every fighter, that cliche line is old and irrelevant. It's exactly as few have said already, people need to attempt to get new players into the game, help them learn and play and build their interest. Those who don't leave their houses to attend anything but whine about lag all day, have clearly chosen that path, do not focus on them.

Focus on those that do want to do something and potentially new players that will want to.

DOA is never going to be in E-Sports, let that die right now. The main focus for DOA as an even larger competitive tournament fighter is to establish offline scenes in various parts of said countries and make the push to continue expanding. Expanding leads towards events, even if it starts with just locals, it'll eventually lead into tournament majors. Which will then lead into more tournament majors and more recognition.

Those of us that have been pushing our offline scenes know exactly what I'm talking about, and understand how difficult it actually is. And if it stops, then it dies.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

You guys can stop it with the DOA is a button masher and sex appeal excuses. Anyone with a real brain will see that you cannot button mash, I will kill you so fast for that offline.

Sex appeal is in every fighter, that cliche line is old and irrelevant. It's exactly as few have said already, people need to attempt to get new players into the game, help them learn and play and build their interest. Those who don't leave their houses to attend anything but whine about lag all day, have clearly chosen that path, do not focus on them.

Focus on those that do want to do something and potentially new players that will want to.

DOA is never going to be in E-Sports, let that die right now. The main focus for DOA as an even larger competitive tournament fighter is to establish offline scenes in various parts of said countries and make the push to continue expanding. Expanding leads towards events, even if it starts with just locals, it'll eventually lead into tournament majors. Which will then lead into more tournament majors and more recognition.

Those of us that have been pushing our offline scenes know exactly what I'm talking about, and understand how difficult it actually is. And if it stops, then it dies.

^ This nigga knows what's up.

 

[Tenryuga]

A lot of excellent points have been brought up in this thread but I will say that in order for DOA to make it to some equivalent of "E-Sports" the game needs to receive the proper representation that it deserves from the community. What this means is that DOA players need to make a concerted effort to support DOA in the form of:

Stepping outside your comfort zone and:
1. Setting up and/or attending offline local casual gatherings
2. Setting up and/or attending offline local tournaments
3. Attending Major tournaments both within your province/state or outside your province/state
4. Promoting the game in your region, or slightly beyond, such as through a Facebook group, Twitch or a Youtube channel
5. Communication with Team Ninja with respect to improving DOA's offline representation and representation to both the casual community and the FGC (I.e. Helping them improve the game for the better instead of whining over costumes, or online bullshit for instance)

I will let you know right off the bat that DOA's problem in regards to its representation in the FGC actually isn't about its online netcode or the boobie fanservice. The online netcode is only a problem if you rely on it to "get better" at DOA. IMHO, You can't properly get better at DOA online because what's legitimate and what's bullshit gets distorted into a filthy contaminated cesspool. You won't start getting better at this game until you play offline, consistently at either local gatherings or tournaments (both local & majors). I know for myself that I have personally levelled up tenfold in the last 14 months. If I was just playing online, I'd still be implementing the same laggy bullshit that I was using when I was a scrub back in DOA5 Vanilla. If you play offline consistently, you will experiencing results in the future.

I see people whine and moan about the boobies or titty DLC in DOA, but did you know that almost every single FG has some sort of fanservice in it, besides something like VF? (Which still has its share of cheesiness lol). The tits on display is not why people avoid DOA in the FGC, it's the lack of people that step up to show what DOA looks like when it's played legitimately. When I look at most people's online matches, I see illegitimate nonsense majority of the time. How do you think that looks to an outsider from the FGC? "Pffft DOA, that's just a mashy RPS Titty Fighter". How does DOA looks to an outsider from the FGC when a legit match is being put on display? "HOLY SHIT! This game looks mad hype, can you teach me how to play?" And then they forget that this game has giant bazongas flinging about. If you think the "tits" or the fanservice is the problem, you're missing the bigger picture.

DOA's problem is that its own community does not put forth a large enough effort to support the game and level themselves and its community up. They focus too much on relatively trivial matters such as the netcode or the fetish DLC, when the real problem has always been a lack of support from the players. Team Ninja, IMO, have done an absolutely phenomenal job at supporting DOA5U through the incredible Road to TFC tournament series, their thoughtful costume contests, additional character reveals, and a fucking arcade release! (I cannot describe how much an arcade release helped out the Japanese community who KNOW how to level up a community compared to Westerners). So you cannot blame TN or accuse them of not doing their part. It's our turn to do our part!

If you are physically incapable of attending local offline gatherings or offline events & tournaments, that is understandable. In that case try to make use of points #4 & #5. Support the game community from the sidelines and do what you can. Playing and getting frustrated online won't help anyone. Creating gameplay and character tutorials will. Sharing tech will. Teaching newer players will. Producing dialogues that focus on DOA in the FGC will. And so on and so forth. To put things in perspective, I have just dealt with the most obnoxious 6-day-per-week work schedule over the last 4 months and have attended every local tournament, started a weekly tournament series, am the most consistent individual to offline casuals, and attended an out-of-country Major (SJ8). I also feel I earned the right to call myself the 2nd best Ayane in the DOA5U tournament scene.

If DOA wants to get anywhere close to something resembling "E-Sports", then we, the DOA Community, need to STEP THE FUCK UP! And start doing what's necessary. Nothing is impossible...

Sir you are a fucking genius; Thank you. I can back up these statements as someone who is apart of a few communities. No one avoids DOA because of the game they avoid it because of the state of the community.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Sir you are a fucking genius; Thank you. I can back up these statements as someone who is apart of a few communities. No one avoids DOA because of the game they avoid it because of the state of the community.

Haha thanks bro . I didn't really say anything profound. I was just saying things as it is. It helps also that I am exposed to high level SF4, Marvel, Injustice, KOF13, and BB play (along with some others such as GG, VF5:FS, TTT2 and P4AU for example). I know how DOA5U play looks in comparison to those games. DOA's FGC is WAY behind other games in terms of tech formulation and metagame development. Not for a moment do I believe games like SF or Tekken are physically "better" than DOA. Their overall communities are just much further along in development.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

^ Exactly that, that's why I made the article on the front page as I did a bit ago.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

"E-sport" lol this ain't no sport it's compedtive gaming

 

[Argentus]

I think what DOA really needs is for more exposure and more people actually playing the game. I don't mean competitively, but rather just playing; period.

^^^ This so much.


Also, who the hell takes Esports seriously?

 

[tokiopewpew]

Also, who the hell takes Esports seriously?

Koreans, for example.

 

[Argentus]

Koreans, for example.

....
...
..
.
..
...
....which koreans?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Starcraft and League are huge in Korea. And quite frankly, League has larger competitions and payouts than any FGC. Half a million is common in that.

 

[crapoZK]

Starcraft and League are huge in Korea. And quite frankly, League has larger competitions and payouts than any FGC. Half a million is common in that.

1 million is common in League and DoTA. But, yeah, even 'little' tournament have better payouts than FGC. Don't forget Halo has a huge Esports following, too.

But let's just say that DOA isn't ever going to be in e-sports by itself. But like I have said before, I feel like the community needs to grow, and build itself into a better one. Not saying it's terrible, but it could be better. LR demos might be the thing to get more people into the game, and that is good. They might be 'online scrubs', but they are playing it, probably trying to get good. The Steam pre-orders are 'skyrocketting' (Well, doing better than I thought), too.

Local tournaments, now:
Every single local, major, mini, FREE ENTRY tournament needs to be streamed. Well maybe not free entry, but you know. And then after the stream, broadcasted to YouTube. Why? So that people aren't led to believe that all DOA is X2 with a little fighting aspect anymore. IGN and GameSpot are doing this shit too. They will release ALL DLC costume trailers, no gameplay and no Grand Final at a tournament. Meanwhile, Skullgirls does. Wut. Back on topic, if there is a local tournament about 15 minutes drive away, go to it. "But I can't drive" - get your ass up anyway, and walk, then. "But I'm not good" - So? Go for the experience. You might lose, but you are bound to beat someone. It will be fun, too. I met people like @UncleKitchener and @GruntDude at a tournament. It was my first one too, and I wasn't expecting to get to 2ndby place, at 13-years old (DOA5 Vanilla). It was a great experience, and was worth the travel. Recently, I've been trying to get to more tournaments, but I can't because distance, age and parent lift problems. I'm attending more as LR comes out though, as I can take a train by myself now.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yeah DoTA too, my bad lol.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Yeah, RTS games do tend to have huge payouts from their esports tournaments. FPS's like Halo or CoD tend to net $10,000s too. It's not just DOA but the FGC in general tends to have relatively shitty payouts outside of EVO (for the "bigger" games, and the Capcom Cup was decent). The FGC needs to get back on something like MLG and not squander their support, I.e. not showing up to events. Too many people in the FGC don't support their games by coming out to events and it's discouraging. It's hurting not only themselves, but the whole community. The FGC deserves better.

 

[J.D.E.]

I said it on Facebook & I'll say it here: It's not Street Fighter's, Super Smash Bros's, or Tekken's fault that they have enough support to get what they have even E-Sports. They got there no matter how you look at it. We know what needs to be done. At this point it starts each like-minded individual instead of people getting upset for it not getting recognition.

 

[Argentus]

You guys do remember that you are comparing worldwide FGs, to Korean RTS games right? Its not a fair comparison, because Koreans approach these things completely different. Its less "competitive gaming" and more "competitive spreadsheets". They don't look at them as "games", they look at them as "formulas to succeed". Hell, look at their MMOS. Few, if any, have any content besides constant grinding, whereas western or japanese MMOS are huge and expansive lore filled worlds to explore. Hell, I'm surprised they don't have Eve Online as an E-Sport in Korea. Competitive Corporate Financing lol.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I just came up with Koreans because you wanted to know who's actually interested in esport. Also, Starcraft as their top RTS game isn't korean itself btw. I agree that they might approach games different, although I'd also say that esport is always about getting the right formula to succeed.