VG247: Dead or Alive 5 to “push the genre” into next-gen territory

[grap3fruitman]

http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/14/dead-or-alive-5-to-push-the-genre-into-next-gen-territory/

Team Ninja boss Yosuke Hayashi claims Dead or Alive 5 will use the full power of current generation hardware, something none of the “simplistic” fighters of this generation have done.

“In the six years that have passed since Dead or Alive 4, we’ve thought a lot about what we can do with the games,” Hayashi told VG247 in the wake of the game’s September reveal.

“You see a lot of fighting games come out now that are really easy to pick up and play – and play online as well. Really simplistic fighting games. You just get ready and go.

“For us though, we thought ‘that’s okay,’ but we really wanted to bring a new dimension to fighting games. We wanted to evolve, and create something that really uses the current generation systems’ full potential.

“What would a fighting game be like if you took the base of a fighting game, and upped that 100%? Used up all the machine power of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360?

“That’s something that we wanted to do – something that you can’t really port onto a handheld, something that can only be done on these consoles.

“When we thought of that idea, we knew the industry had changed a lot since Dead or Alive 4 and that going along the same route wouldn’t be enough for us. We wouldn’t be satisfied by that.

“Using that as our inspiration, we want to really pump up Dead or Alive 5 as much as we can, really make it something that will push the genre from this generation towards next generation.”

No release date has been set for Dead or Alive 5, which was announced at the Tokyo Game Show, but we do know it’ll launch on PS3 and Xbox 360 – and probably nowhere else.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Other fighters are simplistic? Every time I read something from Hayashi, it never makes me more confident in his or Team Ninja's abilities. In fact, I think I might be more concerned for DOA5 now than I was before.

"What would a fighting game be like if you took the base of a fighting game and upped that 100%?" I don't know, you'd have to make a proper fighting game first.

I'm really worried here guys...

 

[Matt Ponton]

To be fair, his comments were in regard to the games pushing the limits of the systems themselves, not in regard to the gameplay.

 

[Rikuto]

I see he is continuing Itagaki's tradition of making nonsensical boasts.

I didn't think him the type, though. . .

 

[Awesmic]

From what I've been reading outside here and some DOA-related sites, a lot of people complained and believed that he lacks charisma. Hell, Tekken producer Harada even implied Hayashi lacked charisma when he was looking back on Itagaki's more outlandish attitude.

I really don't blame Hayashi for trying to be, for a change. Given the pressures of what most fans and fighting game enthusiasts expect out of him (some lower than others), he's in a "damned if he does/doesn't" scenario. Combine this with the "DOA is a titty fighter" stigma most FGCs STILL got injected in their heads, an you've got quite an ordeal on your shoulders. He probably believed that being subtle wasn't gonna win people's constant interest.

That said, I think you guys - of all people - need to give the man a little more breathing space, 'cause no one else seems to be. All he's trying to do is get more people interested.

 

[Rikuto]

Well, I certainly still support the guy, don't get me wrong Awesmic. I was just a little surprised he said that, seems outside of his personality.

I can't raise issue with what he has said, because he really hasn't said anything. His statement didn't really make any sense, it was a directionless boast. Itagaki did that a lot and I always assumed it was some sort of botched translation job... it just puts the competition and fans in a unique situation where they can interpret it however they want, and take offense/rejoice however they wish.

That was purely a PR move.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

To be fair, his comments were in regard to the games pushing the limits of the systems themselves, not in regard to the gameplay.

That much would already be something. After all, TTT2 shifts between HD and sub-HD, even on the beefier System 369 arcade hardware that's even more powerful than the PS3. So it should go without saying what's in store once that game gets its console ports.

 

[Rikuto]

The opinions expressed in the comments box under the article is exactly why Hayashi shouldn't have run his mouth before establishing himself.

And we were finally getting some of the other communities hopeful the game might not be terrible... great job...

 

[grap3fruitman]

To be fair, his comments were in regard to the games pushing the limits of the systems themselves, not in regard to the gameplay.

I think he's jumping around and referring to both the gameplay and the graphics. It's hard to tell since his statements are so vague.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Judging by the original article, it seems that they pulled quotes out of the interview rather than display the whole interview. So yeah, I got that "jumping around" feel when reading the article.

 

[LivingShadow]

Okay, I'll tear this apart

Team Ninja boss Yosuke Hayashi claims Dead or Alive 5 will use the full power of current generation hardware, something none of the “simplistic” fighters of this generation have done.

He's specifically referring to hardware here. And to be honest I agree with him. So far most fighting games are just collision boxes on 3d models. Usually only 2 models (not including projectiles). What I think he's going on here is the inclusion of "Events" that are triggered by a certain location. It has the potential to add new dimensions to DoA but also has the potential to make it a lot more random. Remember that sequence in the trailer when the beam fell when Hayate (I don't feel like remembering, don't correct me if I'm wrong) was kicked into a car? Think more of that.

“In the six years that have passed since Dead or Alive 4, we’ve thought a lot about what we can do with the games,” Hayashi told VG247 in the wake of the game’s September reveal.

“You see a lot of fighting games come out now that are really easy to pick up and play – and play online as well. Really simplistic fighting games. You just get ready and go.

As you all said, I don't think he quite knows how deep the mechanics go, but I don't think he's talking about that. I'm thinking he might be thinking of some sort of dynamic start sequence where you can do stuff before the match even starts instead of the actual in game mechanics.

“For us though, we thought ‘that’s okay,’ but we really wanted to bring a new dimension to fighting games. We wanted to evolve, and create something that really uses the current generation systems’ full potential.

“What would a fighting game be like if you took the base of a fighting game, and upped that 100%? Used up all the machine power of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360?

“That’s something that we wanted to do – something that you can’t really port onto a handheld, something that can only be done on these consoles.

Again, hardware.

“When we thought of that idea, we knew the industry had changed a lot since Dead or Alive 4 and that going along the same route wouldn’t be enough for us. We wouldn’t be satisfied by that.

“Using that as our inspiration, we want to really pump up Dead or Alive 5 as much as we can, really make it something that will push the genre from this generation towards next generation.”

No release date has been set for Dead or Alive 5, which was announced at the Tokyo Game Show, but we do know it’ll launch on PS3 and Xbox 360 – and probably nowhere else.

Basically, huge graphics update. Maybe add in a few mechanics.

Here's something to think about so you can get his position better. Consider SSFIV frames.
EX:

And then look at SF2Turbo frames.
EX:

Almost exactly the same, right? SC, Tekken, and other 3d fighters are similar in concept. Just that the collision boxes are 3d.

Now imagine what the PS3 is capable of compared to the SNES and how much untapped potential we have. We could have crazy moves like shuriken deflecting off walls and passing behind the opponent. We could have movement between layers of a stage on command. We could have combat while both combatants are hanging from a ledge or while sliding down the side of a collapsing building.

Thinking about this has significantly filled my hype meter. If he can pull of Dead Fantasy style fights I am totally for this.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Just clarifying, that's hitboxes not "frames".

 

[LivingShadow]

It's very close, each frame has a hitbox. The frame itself consists of the hitbox, the character sprite, the hurtbox, and whatever else the designer sticks into it (clash, projectile invulnerability, etc..). "Frames" is the number of these until a set thing happens.

EX: i11 in SC is 11 frames of animation until impact.

 

[Rikuto]

Do not try to bend the frame, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. There is no frame.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Heh, I don't want to derail this further, but a "frame" in your implication is just a screenshot. The Hitboxes were what you were referring to in your discussion. Any frame is not guaranteed to have a hitbox.

Frames are used as a steady count of speed. Much like you would say "He was driving 53 miles per hour down the road." instead of "He was driving fast.".

I'm merely trying to point out your inaccurate use of terminology to clear any possible confusion for other readers.

 

[LivingShadow]

Meh, I was using screenshots to demonstrate what I meant. It's not that what I was saying was inaccurate but that I was sort of mixing programming and fighting game terminology, and they overlap here and there.

I'll clarify one last time and leave it at that.

The term "Frames" refers to the move properties and is expressed in terms of frames until x happens. i11 is an attack that has a hitbox (also known as a collision box that determines if an attack connects), if it has 5 active frames then that hitbox exists for 5 frames of animation.

Maybe I should make a new topic for this, knowing the programming behind this is important to fully understanding the terminology and its origins.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

Now imagine what the PS3 is capable of compared to the SNES and how much untapped potential we have. We could have crazy moves like shuriken deflecting off walls and passing behind the opponent. We could have movement between layers of a stage on command. We could have combat while both combatants are hanging from a ledge or while sliding down the side of a collapsing building.

Thinking about this has significantly filled my hype meter. If he can pull of Dead Fantasy style fights I am totally for this.

If they could do something akin to how some boss fights in "Bayonetta" worked out, that indeed would be something interesting to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Dmt2MMeYQ

To clarify, the fights between Bayonetta and Jeanne have easily what I think to be some of the best "DOA-style" stage transitions of its type. Beat up your opponent enough, and now you're fighting on the side of a building. Then eventually, you're riding on top of missiles and continuing to fight.

In a case for reworking this to fit the DOA formula, the main thing I could see being changed around would be either taking out or completely changing up the "mini-game/QTE" aspects, which are pretty much the only random elements present here (and, to be fair, not too many of us who loved Bayonetta cared much for them either). Or maybe it could work tandem to the whole "Power Blow" thing?

It could be very nice, and work well with their whole "fighting entertainment" angle, if the DOA Team is up to the task of making it all work together seamlessly.

 

[Matt Ponton]

if it has 5 active frames then that hitbox exists for 5 frames of animation.

Maybe I should make a new topic for this, knowing the programming behind this is important to fully understanding the terminology and its origins.

No, there's no need to make a new topic, you defined it properly right there: The hitbox was displayed on that single captured frame of animation. But it exists for a period of time in the measurement of number of times the title has rendered a frame. A "frame" isn't a move property, a "hitbox" and the length of time it is displayed is.

 

[LivingShadow]

If they could do something akin to how some boss fights in "Bayonetta" worked out, that indeed would be something interesting to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Dmt2MMeYQ

Something along those lines, with moving danger zones.

If you all haven't seen Dead Fantasy I'm specifically referring to part of Dead Fantasy 2.

Start at around 2:20 and watch to abou 5:30.

If they can pull something like that off (I can think of how it could be done) they'd definitely have fighting entertainment.

No, there's no need to make a new topic, you defined it properly right there: The hitbox was displayed on that single captured frame of animation. But it exists for a period of time in the measurement of number of times the title has rendered a frame. A "frame" isn't a move property, a "hitbox" and the length of time it is displayed is.

Oh, that. "Frames" is also used as slang for those properties in most circles I talk to, hence the quotes.

 

[grap3fruitman]

SRK's comments are full of enthusiasm: http://shoryuken.com/2011/11/16/dead-or-alive-5-plans-to-take-fighting-games-to-the-next-level/

My favorite being:

To the next level?
It'd be a miracle if they could make it to the current level.