Soapbox: Community Activism and the DOA Narrative

[Kohlrak]

@Kohlrak Unfortunately my ps3 got the yellow light of death. Shame to because it was a launch 60gb and I was right in the middle of replaying legend of dragoon to =/. I'd use an emulator but those things are hit or miss on certain games.

I just looked up YLOD, and apparently there's only a few things it actually addresses. Most of the stuff is easily fixable. Do you still have the hardware? If so, i can try to help (by the sounds of it, the most likely fix you need is an air-can or a basketball pump [do not try to blow it yourself]). If not, we can still work on it, just not from the same match. In theory we could work on it via dimensions if you have that, but it'd be harder since it's a slower game. What i've noticed extends beyond just DoA, and even can extend into common every day activities, which is why i'm spending alot of time on the problem as it is. I realized it's affecting my DoA play, my play in other fihgting games, my ability in sparring (and thus probably real fights), and probably had alot to do with why i was never good at sports.

And i'll go as far to say as well that an understanding of this problem will probably result in fewer mashers (if you have no reaction time, no game plan, you're going to resort to mashing and hoping for the best [with the same level of inanity of a professional boxer who hugs his opponent when his face is getting beaten in]).

I think that's the major issue, we're just really disorganized.

You'd think by now we'd've solved more of the problems we're whining about by now, but you have hit the nail on the head here. What could be the only reason we haven't solved anything yet? Because it's hard getting us together on anything, let alone discussing a single issue that needs a response.

I wouldn't really say "disorganized", it's more a problem of the community not being able to get on the same page.

You realize you just said that something isn't X, but rather it's actually X, right?

I find that the issues related to this stem from the significant difference between Online DOA5LR play & Offline DOA5LR play, and the high quantity of players that both don't know the differences, and can't acknowledge or appreciate the differences. I can tell whether the complaints or issues being raised are based on online play or offline play. The high quantity of fragile egos in the community don't really help matters either.

I've said this for a while. And sometimes i feel that the "high quantity" also includes the "top players," which are the offline players (not all of them, of course). I can't remember who, but it might've been Mr.Wah that pointed out to me what's really wrong with online, and it really has everything to do with timing. In real martial arts, you want to back off then randomly jump in range and throw punches and kicks with uneven timing, so they can't use timing to improve their reaction speed to block your attacks. When you look into the nervous system and such, you find out quickly that humans do have high "clock rates," however our responses get queued. Therefor, while we can interact with things that are happening fast, we are actually very, very slow in comparison. We try to compensate by using our abilities to predict things (see how fast and what direction something is moving, and then try to meet it the next time we see it). When things don't work, we flail (mash). This results in more mashers. Now, mashing is easy to predict and punish, since the timing is pretty regular. The issue is, with a random lag spike, the masher just got the advantage (without knowing to do it himself) to mess up his opponents timing, so holds and blocking just went out the window. As a result, this forces the one receiving the attack to either mash or throw the match. This can easily be fixed and/or mitigated, but we can't even get together long enoguh to discuss this. Thus, online sucks, and you're nuts if you say otherwise. Honestly, i think the best solution is to consider offline Gran Turismo, and online Mario Kart, when make a word flash on the screen during a lag spike (so it's more obvious) and the players then have to react to it like they would a blue shell or lightning strike.

Just for a frame of reference, in my experience, I don't think I've ever encountered an unwelcoming, egotistical, douchebag or anything resembling that at an offline event or gathering before for DOA5 and its updates. I do not really know where the impression that offline DOA5 players are "jerks", "elitists" or "assholes", or whatever, came from.

New people are enterting the game at a faster rate than previous iterations. Lots of people are asking for hands on learning, because they're hands on learners. Instead, they're given a video (which may be good, but it's not hands on learning [there were attempts with things like team best, but the runners of team best didn't have the right experience beforehand to know how to identify the causes of weaknesses, as opposed to the weaknesses themsevles, so we couldn't capitalize on it]). While the people asking for help are not entitled to help, the lack of help makes them feel very much that the top of the community is like a rich aristocrat with a folding fan trying to beat all the peons away who are begging for money to feed their family in the middle of a famine. DoAD and DoA5 broguht more people (including me) to the game than the community was prepared for. The people are completely different from the kinds of people who've tried out DoA before, and the community, simply, was not ready. With all the problems towards the end of 5's life, we realize that this was a wasted opportunity. All we can do is hope for 2 things: First, that we are given such an opportunity again, and second, that we will be ready next time.

And it really would've been nice if DoA had a "base character" like "ryu" in street fighter. After hitting random lots of times, you find that 5P is always your fastest jab, 2P is a neutral that's very likely to be a low-crush as well. 6P is usually your mid poke. 4K is usually your ranged mid poke. 5K is usually your high poke. 2K or 1K are usually your low ranged pokes. 7P is usually either a sabaki or an escape. This kind of knowledge gets people away from the feeling that only combos matter (which seems to be a problem with the community as a whole if you look at our media). A given character has alot of moves, and remembering every little feature (as well as finding every little feature) is hard for someone to do. Any reliable tricks that work from character to character allow people to branch out and learn new characters and how you play as them, rather than going straight to combo challenge as a means of winning (and when things don't work we flail/mash). We still don't have anything more reliable than P is a punch, K is a kick, H is to block (many don't realize you can hold back which is probably wiser), T is a throw, P+K is situational, and H+K you probably won't use.

 

[Matt Ponton]

So what I'm seeing in some posts is that people need to stop trying to act like "authoritative figures" (which no one has been able to provide me examples of), but we're disorganized so we need to come together in some way that also doesn't feel like any one person is directing?

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but is that the consensus: we need less authority while getting more authority?

 

[Kohlrak]

So what I'm seeing in some posts is that people need to stop trying to act like "authoritative figures" (which no one has been able to provide me examples of), but we're disorganized so we need to come together in some way that also doesn't feel like any one person is directing?

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but is that the consensus: we need less authority while getting more authority?

I think it's really important to separate what people think is the issue from what really is the issue. If someone doesn't understand how to play, the most honest thing they're going to say is that the game is confusing. Worst case scenario, they'll shrug the game off and blame something completely unrelated. I think the real issue, when it comes to authority, is that the gap is rather large. The ones with skills are way above those with none. The ones with skills are busy trying to improve themselves over each other, and their time is precious as they have lives, so the guy on the bottom has little hope of help from them for vertical movement. Someone asks for help, and they get information (which is helpful and useful information) that totally isn't for their level or way of thinking, and when they repeatedly ask for help and get the same answer which they are not at the right level neither/nor are their brains geared towards using (especially hands on learners which are the hardest to help), they feel a disconnect. They admit that the videos and posts (which are about all there really is) are to high of a level for them, and the response is either more high level material or to use the in game tutorials which cater towards rushing the player through rather than improving the player.

To make matters worse, when the hand-holding method happens, people say "yo, you need to block more" so they block more. What happens? They get thrown. If they don't ragequit, ragemash, or something like that, they'll say "but i'm getting thrown." They'll then say "then strike." Then the question becomes "When do i strike, and when do I block?" And the chain continues. This mess continues and continues because the student and the master are having trouble finding a common level of thinking. This happens in real martial arts, too. However, what they usually do is throw people into sparring and use the sink or swim mentality, which often works if the person stays. The problem here is, it's harder to punish a flailer (masher), and it's also easier for people to quit. The closest anyone has gotten to thinking at my level here was a few times where people ended up teaching me combos (really, we need to get rid of this combo mentality and teach people how to use the tools available to them to chip damage a win [even in martial arts they try not to teach combos until you first learn basic moves that go into them so you at least have enough context to know why things work and how to deal with things when they don't work {and the hardest thing about this game is that your sparring partners are trying to win the sparring match, rather than cater towards your learning, so thinks rarely work and then we don't know how to handle it}]).

It really comes down to, this game is hard to pick up and go, and we don't have anything right now to make it easier, so people are coming to the community to try to get pickup-and-go techniques, when the higher level players keep assuming that, like with other communities, people already have the pickup-and-go down. We could sit here all day and try to improve that, but there's a lot of topics to cover, and it's already too little too late for the benefits we got from 5, let alone the fact that the community is already hostile. Add in the fact that there are clearly cliques within the community that try to control the rest of the community without input, this goes out of control with people feeling like they're not even part of the community (while i do support the softban, it is indeed the most noticeable example at this point).

TL;DR: We're not friends, like we should be, and we keep things in house among our cliques of friends. And, like all cliques, the cliques aren't welcoming outsiders.

 

[Yurlungur]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but is that the consensus: we need less authority while getting more authority?

 

[GreatDarkHero]

This is an article that people really need to take heed to. In summary, it is generally a good idea showcase support in the best way possible, while helping each other improve in the process.

 

[Mailifang]

Could you point me to where this was done?

I could list names.But that would just add to the drama.But anyone who pays attention and watch streams of the DOA offline tournaments know who are the top players.The last time the majority of the top DOA players showed up in one place was for that $8000 DA tournament.

And anyone who has an outspoken opinion has been trolled or treated like what they had to say doesn't matter.You guys know who these vocal members are. Anyone who has posted or visited the forums know who these people are. You guys want to defend your turf .Any and all outsiders get put down if they don't buy into FSD's doctrine. Even those members who have a bad rep and pissed off many in the FSD community that's supports the doctrine will be supported.The FSD faithful which are people who found or created a home here seem to accept and encourage forms of BS and hypocrisy to protect what they have here. It is what it is.

Most FGC communities have this form of BS. I've been around the DOA community since the DOA central forum days. There was evidence of the high level DOA community's dysfunction back then.Like all communities they begin with good intentions until human nature screws it up. What began as a way to just get the high level community together and find ways to grow the DOA community.Is now a community that has segregated itself from the overall fan base and players. But then again maybe the high level communities were selfish from the beginning. And eventually realized that because they are strong players they have to deal with the hate and alienation by the majority of the community.

So the good and strong players build and try to cultivate a community of their own.Which is perfectly fine. Over time DOA get some publicity and the good and strong players start to come out an show their face and become more than a gamer tag online. These players ended up on video game televised shows and world video game competition.As an fan of DOA ,I and many other players got inspired.I organized an ran my own local offline events.I started to take the game seriously.I played,got my ass kicked,and on occasion beat some of you. Granted it seems like many of you could't handle losing online and pretty much demonized the online community.Which in turn made the high level DOA community look like a bunch of childish elitists.

Instead of welcoming new players with skills to the offline scene, it became an open challenge to assuage bruised egos.Not all of the high level community had this attitude.But the more vocal and outspoken members on the forums did.I was there on the forums at DOAC at the time. So I knew how chaotic the DOA high level community was back then. Even a few of our most chill players who are well known now, back then were very confrontational and out spoken.


This is what happens when you only surround yourself with players who are the best in they're very own pond .When they realize they are not the best because the players and fan base is bigger than thought they either adapt or talk shit about those they feel are weaker players. Most if not all FGC communities went through these growing pains in some way.The difference between those communities and the DOA community is that they had a thriving arcade scene.They got to know each other face to face. If you talked shit you had to back it up in game or take it to the parking lot. The DOA community had the luxury of the majority of its players being safely behind a computer or TV screen.You had the luxury of talking all the shit you want without the threat physical altercation.Everyone was just considered a screen name on the forums and not treated and respected as a person and a player.

That trend continues today. We are all passionate about DOA.And these passions can lead to things being said that shouldn't be said.Personal attacks and a lot of bull shit.I know longer want to add to it. Which is why I didn't fully engage at the bull shit thrown at me as responses to my posts.I own up to the fact that I am very opinionated.But I stand by my opinions and I don't take this shit personally.Because I don't know any of you personally. I feel we are all adults and we can agree to disagree on our likes and dislikes of any of the DOA games.Because they are just frickin video games for gods sake.

FSD has made strides and in someways become a voice for the DOA community.And with the good comes the bad. You have to be responsible of what kind message comes from that voice. You guys and girls only make up a small percentage of the fan base.And your voice can be biased to your own ideals and what you want for the community.But that may not be what the majority of the DOA community wants.The community will always be dysfunctional until there is common ground on all sides.


If I come off as a bitch and offended anyone I apologize. My apology does not mean I have to agree with everything you guys say or do.But if a long time fan,player, and DOA supporter is willing to compromise and let go of their on bias and bullshit.Then some of you should do the same.The ball is in your court. FSD has a prime opportunity to have a community grow beyond the one just on this site.

 

[Kohlrak]

I could list names.But that would just add to the drama.But anyone who pays attention and watch streams of the DOA offline tournaments know who are the top players.The last time the majority of the top DOA players showed up in one place was for that $8000 DA tournament.

I don't care. The flames are already pretty high at this point, so call them out.

And anyone who has an outspoken opinion has been trolled or treated like what they had to say doesn't matter.You guys know who these vocal members are. Anyone who has posted or visited the forums know who these people are. You guys want to defend your turf .Any and all outsiders get put down if they don't buy into FSD's doctrine. Even those members who have a bad rep and pissed off many in the FSD community that's supports the doctrine will be supported.The FSD faithful which are people who found or created a home here seem to accept and encourage forms of BS and hypocrisy to protect what they have here. It is what it is.

Without examples, i'm just going to say this is complete BS. I know there are things going on with people who like to go against the grind of the general community, but those are probably the people you're saying are getting ridiculed. My guess is, you won't show us examples because you're afraid we'll call BS on it.

Most FGC communities have this form of BS. I've been around the DOA community since the DOA central forum days. There was evidence of the high level DOA community's dysfunction back then.Like all communities they begin with good intentions until human nature screws it up. What began as a way to just get the high level community together and find ways to grow the DOA community.Is now a community that has segregated itself from the overall fan base and players. But then again maybe the high level communities were selfish from the beginning. And eventually realized that because they are strong players they have to deal with the hate and alienation by the majority of the community.

The people who're segregating themselves aren't the people at the top, from what i've seen.

So the good and strong players build and try to cultivate a community of their own.Which is perfectly fine. Over time DOA get some publicity and the good and strong players start to come out an show their face and become more than a gamer tag online. These players ended up on video game televised shows and world video game competition.As an fan of DOA ,I and many other players got inspired.I organized an ran my own local offline events.I started to take the game seriously.I played,got my ass kicked,and on occasion beat some of you. Granted it seems like many of you could't handle losing online and pretty much demonized the online community.Which in turn made the high level DOA community look like a bunch of childish elitists.

This i won't disagree with. I think it's more of a lack of understanding of the game, tbh (yes, i'm actually suggesting that even some of the top players aren't understanding the game).

Instead of welcoming new players with skills to the offline scene, it became an open challenge to assuage bruised egos.Not all of the high level community had this attitude.But the more vocal and outspoken members on the forums did.I was there on the forums at DOAC at the time. So I knew how chaotic the DOA high level community was back then. Even a few of our most chill players who are well known now, back then were very confrontational and out spoken.

Could you link me to DOAC? I think i know where it is, but I want to confirm it before I shoot off my mouth.

This is what happens when you only surround yourself with players who are the best in they're very own pond .When they realize they are not the best because the players and fan base is bigger than thought they either adapt or talk shit about those they feel are weaker players. Most if not all FGC communities went through these growing pains in some way.The difference between those communities and the DOA community is that they had a thriving arcade scene.They got to know each other face to face. If you talked shit you had to back it up in game or take it to the parking lot. The DOA community had the luxury of the majority of its players being safely behind a computer or TV screen.You had the luxury of talking all the shit you want without the threat physical altercation.Everyone was just considered a screen name on the forums and not treated and respected as a person and a player.

You seem to be making the same mistake of putting off the online community, here. Truth is, the DoA community got away with it simply because it always had fewer numbers to fight. You can't take someone to the parking lot if you can't even find someone to take to the parking lot.

That trend continues today. We are all passionate about DOA.And these passions can lead to things being said that shouldn't be said.Personal attacks and a lot of bull shit.I know longer want to add to it. Which is why I didn't fully engage at the bull shit thrown at me as responses to my posts.I own up to the fact that I am very opinionated.But I stand by my opinions and I don't take this shit personally.Because I don't know any of you personally. I feel we are all adults and we can agree to disagree on our likes and dislikes of any of the DOA games.Because they are just frickin video games for gods sake.

You know, this is a great example of a trend online that we see today, that people say they're not taking things personally, but clearly are. I'm not going to figure you exclusively, as i'm seeing it all over here, which is why things are getting so heated. It's not really a bad thing, either.

FSD has made strides and in someways become a voice for the DOA community.And with the good comes the bad. You have to be responsible of what kind message comes from that voice. You guys and girls only make up a small percentage of the fan base.And your voice can be biased to your own ideals and what you want for the community.But that may not be what the majority of the DOA community wants.The community will always be dysfunctional until there is common ground on all sides.

FSD is the most welcoming DoA community that i've found (as opposed to DoA world). If it's only a small voice of the community then the community is doing a bad job of making itself known. It's safe to say that the majority of what we even can call a community (people getting together) is FSD.

If I come off as a bitch and offended anyone I apologize. My apology does not mean I have to agree with everything you guys say or do.But if a long time fan,player, and DOA supporter is willing to compromise and let go of their on bias and bullshit.Then some of you should do the same.The ball is in your court. FSD has a prime opportunity to have a community grow beyond the one just on this site.

Your opinions are not authoritative, and giving us an ultimatum is just going to have us ignore you.

 

[CyberEvil]

I'm still curious as to who the DoA Illuminati consists of, since evidently that's now a thing.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I could list names.But that would just add to the drama.But anyone who pays attention and watch streams of the DOA offline tournaments know who are the top players.The last time the majority of the top DOA players showed up in one place was for that $8000 DA tournament.

So, you don't have anything to support your accusations is what I'm reading. Apologies if I did miss it. I didn't ask for a list of names, I asked for a basis of proof to your accusations; examples to where your claims are on display.

And anyone who has an outspoken opinion has been trolled or treated like what they had to say doesn't matter.You guys know who these vocal members are. Anyone who has posted or visited the forums know who these people are. You guys want to defend your turf .

Now you're just being vague to garner more "supporters" for "your cause", of which you haven't shown anything for. I don't understand what 'turf' you are referring to either, please elaborate so we can have a logical discussion on your point of view.

Any and all outsiders get put down if they don't buy into FSD's doctrine. Even those members who have a bad rep and pissed off many in the FSD community that's supports the doctrine will be supported.

Where? and what "doctrine" are you referring to?

The FSD faithful which are people who found or created a home here seem to accept and encourage forms of BS and hypocrisy to protect what they have here. It is what it is.

Where have you seen this, could you provide me some examples or links? Because either the offended aren't reporting it, or they aren't happening on the site.

Most FGC communities have this form of BS. I've been around the DOA community since the DOA central forum days. There was evidence of the high level DOA community's dysfunction back then.Like all communities they begin with good intentions until human nature screws it up.

Okay, at least you're acknowledging that whatever "BS" you are referring to happens in communities outside of this one community you are accusing of doing something or other to someone or other.

IWhat began as a way to just get the high level community together and find ways to grow the DOA community.Is now a community that has segregated itself from the overall fan base and players.

What segregation? Where? Can you provide examples?

But then again maybe the high level communities were selfish from the beginning. And eventually realized that because they are strong players they have to deal with the hate and alienation by the majority of the community.

More vagueness, though I do find it interesting you're using the "high level community" terminology synonymous with what I interpret as what is often called "the offline community", as if you are implying the offline community is the only one that can be high level. Or maybe you're just segregating while attempting to be vague for the sake of your accusations? Can you provide examples of such instances occurring?

So the good and strong players build and try to cultivate a community of their own.Which is perfectly fine.

Nice.

Over time DOA get some publicity and the good and strong players start to come out an show their face and become more than a gamer tag online. These players ended up on video game televised shows and world video game competition.

None of which I believe actually are staff on FSD. In fact (oh, facts), only Emmanuel Rodriguez is still playing the game actively.

This is what happens when you only surround yourself with players who are the best in they're very own pond .When they realize they are not the best because the players and fan base is bigger than thought they either adapt or talk shit about those they feel are weaker players. Most if not all FGC communities went through these growing pains in some way.The difference between those communities and the DOA community is that they had a thriving arcade scene.They got to know each other face to face. If you talked shit you had to back it up in game or take it to the parking lot. The DOA community had the luxury of the majority of its players being safely behind a computer or TV screen.You had the luxury of talking all the shit you want without the threat physical altercation.Everyone was just considered a screen name on the forums and not treated and respected as a person and a player.

I do find it interesting you are saying that what helped other communities compared to DOA is having offline face-to-face interactions.

That trend continues today.

Noted.

IPersonal attacks and a lot of bull shit.I know longer want to add to it.

Yes, you did add quite a lot of bull shit and personal attacks. Good to see you're looking to stop that and hopefully begin discussing things with logical reasoning and data to support your claims.

FSD has made strides and in someways become a voice for the DOA community.

Thanks, that's nice of you for saying and it won't stop us from continuing to share information about DOA to people of all experiences.

But that may not be what the majority of the DOA community wants.The community will always be dysfunctional until there is common ground on all sides.

Anyone with a Twitter account can share their comments with @TeamNINJAStudio.

FSD has a prime opportunity to have a community grow beyond the one just on this site.

It would be interesting to have a Free Step Dodge community that goes beyond Free Step Dodge, but would it still be called a Free Step Dodge community then, or would it just be called a DOA community, or a High Level Player community, or a Casual community, or a DOA World community, or an Online community, or an Offline community, or a Fighting Game community, or a Video game community, or an ... I hope you get that point, but if you don't it's cool no pressure.

I'm still curious as to who the DoA Illuminati consists of, since evidently that's now a thing.

Yeah, I've been hearing of such an Illuminati since CGS went bankrupt, but I have never met anyone from it. I wish I knew who they are but all I'm ever told is "some people", or "you know who they are", or "the elitist assholes." You know, vague segregation to help make the "impending force" scarier due to the unknown.

 

[Malfury]

I'm still curious as to who the DoA Illuminati consists of, since evidently that's now a thing.

Lol, oh come now.. only one or 2 people said something like that. I guarantee that most everyone else doesn't give an airborne intercourse.

 

[Mailifang]

:sigh: You can't help those that don't want it..You extend an olive branch and try to come to understanding you get more bull shit tossed in your face.We all play DOA ,so we are all masters when it comes to bullshit .So i know when it is tossed in my direction.

Its obvious some of you are fine with way things are.so just own up to it.Feigning ignorance just makes it worse.

I've said what all I said to say.There is a difference from not taking things personally to actually caring about making things better. Kohlrak.Your either being a facetious jackass just to be one oh or you truly lack common sense if you can't tell the difference. I could choose to get drawn into wave of words in which you yourself are not coming up with a solution but just adding excuses that go no where.

At some point you got to have some form of depth and substance to the point that you are trying to get across.A solid argument cannot thrive on bullshit .Nor can problems be solved with bullshit. I see all these words but no point behind them.So what is your point Kohlrak?.What is your end game?What are you trying to say?I don't know whether to take you seriously or just ignore you.
FSD is not welcoming to every body.Certain ways of thinking and opinions will get you put on blast by
certain vocal members of the community.You and Raansu proved that by how you came at me.Its obvious your new to this community.As evident by you not knowing of the DOA central website I am not. Ask all the older members on this site and they will tell you about it.How do you think lopedo got is illustrious reputation of being a trolling the community.You remind me of Lopedo back in the day.

I have met cool people and dealt with people like you Kohlrak since I've joined this site and the FGC in general.

CyberEvil

I'm sure you and those who run this site would know.Sometimes an agenda based on certain ideals runs so deep you do not see flaws with in it.This site can continue to come off as a bunch of embittered boys defending their mantra and way of thinking concerning DOA.Or they can grow up and become men and open up to the rest of the DOA community and share ways on making the community as a whole better.

So far it just seems you guys use what influence you do have to consolidate power by having the attention of Team Ninja.You use this to enforce your ways and values on the community. Its evident in the streams when I see commentators give shot outs to the FSD site and community.So in that aspect it does come off as you guys creating a DOA world order built by your own ideals and thinking of what a DOA community should be.Its an obvious ploy many of the more observant veteran and casual players in the community have noticed recently.You guys are also trying to be he moral center of the game is well by even coming up with the idea of soft ban on costumes.There is a lot of passive aggressive moves being made behind the scenes by certain members on this site.You guys know who each other are.This site is moderated with an iron fist. So feigning ignorance just makes you look even worse.

I'm sure the more vocal of you will just laugh it off. And make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.I'm sure Kohlrak will dissect this post line for line. With his whirlwind random responses. I'm not here to add to the drama.

Boobiebombs realizes there is an issue in the community and he whats to find ways of fixing it. My initial response came off as attacking the FSD community and the game. And I have just owned up to that.Even apologized for it. But at least I'm open to finding a solution.So far based on the responses of a just few individuals gives the impression that the FSD community does not.Which doesn't seem fair to the FSD community as a whole to be judged based of the responses of a very vocal few. So why aren't more people responding and commenting on this?

* Is it because they support the vocal minority?Which is evident when certain responses get liked

*They want to disagree with the vocal minority but don't want to deal with the drama getting trolled and attacked on the forums into oblivion.Which is true as well.

*Or they just don't care either way.Which from my knowledge of chatting with with quite a few members here is the case.

 

[Matt Ponton]

So no evidence still? Ok.

 

[deathofaninja]

I think it's a pretty bold statement to say that FSD isn't welcoming to everybody. There is trolling that happens, and in my opinion it is fun, but maybe that's why you would say something like that.

FSD encourages social lives, competitive play, learning and educating the community. FSD is trusted to the point of receiving donations from the community which we use for the site, and for sending players to tournaments. Players that are new to the scene are generally recognized in every tournament write-up because we are a welcoming community, and appreciate what other player styles can bring to the table.

A few years ago people were judged on what console they played on or what country they were in. Now players look forward to International play and are more accepting towards everyone because FSD has spread the gospel.

IS this community perfect? No, and I actually think you missed the point of this topic completely. You're throwing fingers in every direction and I think you should stop.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Alright, I'm going to say something now and it is towards @Mailifang comments about our offline scene.

I notice you live in California, but I have never once seen you or even your name at any offline events. Locally or major tournament events. Not to say you have to attend just because events are in your own state. But I do think it is really unfair of you to judge what you haven't experienced. Our tournament local and tournament major events for DOA5 have been good and welcoming to all participating in each event.

There are no egos or elitist at offline tournament events in DOA here in the state of California. I welcome everyone I meet and have met to enjoy themselves and to return once again, given that their experience was modest. I even gave Crazy Steady respect for defeating me in Grand Finals at SCR2014 last year because I came to acknowledge his actual skill as a player.

Other members of the California scene do the same and quite frankly, everyone treats everyone with respect and have a good time.

What always bothers me is that a person(s) will try to point fingers at our offline community when they haven't necessarily been out (or out enough) to claim the people are egotistical/elitist/assholes/bad people/etc. And would usually just group the whole portion of players together as a whole, which is unfair.

Not everyone in the offline scene are these demons you so speak of. But the same can be said about the online community. Neither side is completely demonized. You will meet assholes online but that just comes with online gaming. I have yet to attend any offline event where I've met someone who was a complete asshole or a straight up jerk, just 'cause.

If all you have to go by is what you choose to see on the internet as your claim, then your vision is narrow (this is not directed towards you, just a general statement).

Bringing out really old past tense events or even things from 2-3 years ago is saying you are still clinging onto old ties and refuse to let them go.

Most of us here do not care, most of us know where we have sinned and grew wise. And are only trying to do what we can to improve our game's community, our game, ourselves as players and community members.

If you do not see that, then you haven't been paying attention to detail as of late. Instead of coming back to the community to say how old you are and state your opinion while also refusing to provide evidence to claims you've made. Try to settle down and take heed to what this thread's OP's is about. That is what most of us aim for.

Continuing any banter at this point is useless.

 

[Kohlrak]

:sigh: You can't help those that don't want it..You extend an olive branch and try to come to understanding you get more bull shit tossed in your face.We all play DOA ,so we are all masters when it comes to bullshit .So i know when it is tossed in my direction.

Now i'll put you in the same hotseat that i put "the top players" in. I love help. I won't argue with help. But giving me the wrong information confuses me, not helps me. If you truly wish to help people, you need to give them the information that they can work with.

Its obvious some of you are fine with way things are.so just own up to it.Feigning ignorance just makes it worse.

Hey, i am trying to change things around here. If i have made the wrong assumptions here, i need proof to continue on in your direction. Otherwise, you're distracting me from what is the real reason, and i would be just going on a wild goose chase wasting more time that this community doesn't have. If you have evidence, show me. Otherwise, you're wasting our time.

I've said what all I said to say.There is a difference from not taking things personally to actually caring about making things better. Kohlrak.Your either being a facetious jackass just to be one oh or you truly lack common sense if you can't tell the difference. I could choose to get drawn into wave of words in which you yourself are not coming up with a solution but just adding excuses that go no where.

I'm actually trying to work on the solution which i perceive to be the problem. I need a certain type of volunteers to qualify the problem before i go more public with it. My theory means nothing without evidence, so i need bold people who are willing to tell me they suck at DoA and mash because they do, so i can work with them. Once i have the solution to their problem, i can propose it to the community and those who don't support the clear evidence (that i will surely have at that point), can be called out.

At some point you got to have some form of depth and substance to the point that you are trying to get across.A solid argument cannot thrive on bullshit .Nor can problems be solved with bullshit. I see all these words but no point behind them.

Since you've shown no evidence, and told me to seek it myself (when the burden of proof is always on the maker of the argument), I have no choice but to assume that you are pulling this out of your ass.

So what is your point Kohlrak?.What is your end game?What are you trying to say?I don't know whether to take you seriously or just ignore you.

Simple. I have a number of theories what is wrong with this community and the game in general, but i don't have the resources necessary to qualify them. Until i do, i'm not going to throw much out there on what they are, because if i'm wrong, i just distracted someone else who may have the right idea in his/her head with my own wild goose chase.

FSD is not welcoming to every body.Certain ways of thinking and opinions will get you put on blast by
certain vocal members of the community.

Welcome to *ANY* community. There will always be an establishment clique, but unlike other DoA sites, i was actually allowed to post upon registering. DoA World threw me out (before I could even post), and the only way for me to do things was to try to find people either in the overly dead webchat, or to ask people on this site to let me in. I've talked to people who are involved there as well, and it's a known issue, and one out of necessity, so i don't take it personal. However, it remains that this place is much more welcoming than there. Are there any other DoA communities i should be trying to join for a comparison?

You and Raansu proved that by how you came at me.Its obvious your new to this community.As evident by you not knowing of the DOA central website I am not. Ask all the older members on this site and they will tell you about it.How do you think lopedo got is illustrious reputation of being a trolling the community.You remind me of Lopedo back in the day.

Really, i stated a few posts back that i started DoA with dimensions on the 3ds, so if it was still difficult for you, then you need to learn to read into things. I don't know DoAC. I don't know Lopedo. If you're trying to make a case to me (and other new people here who don't have the context), why are you putting the burden on us to find evidence and resources regarding your argument? The very thing you're accusing Lopedo of is, quite frankly, exactly what you're doing: trolling. If you had any evidence to any claim, you'd've shown it by now.

I have met cool people and dealt with people like you Kohlrak since I've joined this site and the FGC in general.

Please tell me who they are. I've met many people in my life, and you are the first to suggest that there is anyone that's anything like me. I have yet to find anyone who is like minded. The funny thing is, the closest i've ever found was you. You're the only one who can boldly go onto a website, dare try to take your own opinion that challenges the very purpose of a website, and still make an arguement without getting yourself immediately banned. You're actually able to argue against an entire website full of people without resorting to entirely emotional responses. The only person other than you i've known to do that is myself.

CyberEvil

I'm sure you and those who run this site would know.Sometimes an agenda based on certain ideals runs so deep you do not see flaws with in it.This site can continue to come off as a bunch of embittered boys defending their mantra and way of thinking concerning DOA.Or they can grow up and become men and open up to the rest of the DOA community and share ways on making the community as a whole better.

We need evidence of issues and evidence towards a solution before we can take such a risk as to act on 1 random person's rambling. But, please continue. Your theatrics are rather amusing.

So far it just seems you guys use what influence you do have to consolidate power by having the attention of Team Ninja.You use this to enforce your ways and values on the community. Its evident in the streams when I see commentators give shot outs to the FSD site and community.So in that aspect it does come off as you guys creating a DOA world order built by your own ideals and thinking of what a DOA community should be.Its an obvious ploy many of the more observant veteran and casual players in the community have noticed recently.You guys are also trying to be he moral center of the game is well by even coming up with the idea of soft ban on costumes.There is a lot of passive aggressive moves being made behind the scenes by certain members on this site.You guys know who each other are.This site is moderated with an iron fist. So feigning ignorance just makes you look even worse.

In other words, you're upset that FSD is actually trying to bring the community together in one place so we can actually discuss things. It's not like we're taking anything else down. It's like calling a lighthouse the illuminati. It's just there to try to bring ships to the docks so they don't get lost and wreck into land.

I'm sure the more vocal of you will just laugh it off. And make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.I'm sure Kohlrak will dissect this post line for line. With his whirlwind random responses.

You know me better than my own girlfriend, it would seem. Kudos to you on that one.

I'm not here to add to the drama.

Then why the hell are you adding to it?

Boobiebombs realizes there is an issue in the community and he whats to find ways of fixing it. My initial response came off as attacking the FSD community and the game. And I have just owned up to that.Even apologized for it. But at least I'm open to finding a solution.So far based on the responses of a just few individuals gives the impression that the FSD community does not.

All of your own opinions with no evidence. At least when i support the soft ban i can quote people outside of the community which may or may not exist (they take my word for it). You can't even do that much. I take back what i said about us being similar.

Which doesn't seem fair to the FSD community as a whole to be judged based of the responses of a very vocal few. So why aren't more people responding and commenting on this?

Or maybe they'd rather let someone like me deal with it so they can enjoy their game. Why do we need over 50 people responding to 1 random troll? And where is "the rest of the DoA community?" Or are you the elected official in the republic of DoA, trying to fend off the community from the communist illuminati?

* Is it because they support the vocal minority?Which is evident when certain responses get liked

Hey, mine and others are gettnig likes, too. Even more amusing is that you are also liking my responses. I only liked one or two of yours.

*They want to disagree with the vocal minority but don't want to deal with the drama getting trolled and attacked on the forums into oblivion.Which is true as well.

If it was really an issue, i would've expected at least 1 other person to speak up by now. I mean, the number of people arguing with you is only so many people. If there really was a larger group behind you, there should be no problem in overpowering us.

*Or they just don't care either way.Which from my knowledge of chatting with with quite a few members here is the case.

So you're gonna sit here and blast the majority again, claiming to be the minority. You know, alot of political organizations have been doing this tactic lately even causing McDonalds to change their famous french fry recipie (which actually is a big deal). I assume Mr. Wah is smarter than that, though.

There are no egos or elitist at offline tournament events in DOA here in the state of California. I welcome everyone I meet and have met to enjoy themselves and to return once again, given that their experience was modest. I even gave Crazy Steady respect for defeating me in Grand Finals at SCR2014 last year because I came to acknowledge his actual skill as a player.

I've seen them post here, and there are one or two. You and I have personally talked about this before, and I have personally apologized to you on skype when you were teaching me about Momiji for accusing you of being one of them. I made the mistake of not keeping track of them, which i also apologize for, since i now cannot call them out. I hope you at least remember that conversation.

What always bothers me is that a person(s) will try to point fingers at our offline community when they haven't necessarily been out (or out enough) to claim the people are egotistical/elitist/assholes/bad people/etc. And would usually just group the whole portion of players together as a whole, which is unfair.

Which is an issue. But it's an issue of human nature, and the only real solution is some public outreach to try to break the border, because there should not be 2 communities simply because of venue. TN has worked on trying to break the border, so why aren't we (that's addressed to everyone, really)?

If all you have to go by is what you choose to see on the internet as your claim, then your vision is narrow (this is not directed towards you, just a general statement).

Bringing out really old past tense events or even things from 2-3 years ago is saying you are still clinging onto old ties and refuse to let them go.

Which shows she's no more willing to change than anyone else. Humans typically accuse others of their own sins when they make unfounded claims, because their foundation is themselves.

Continuing any banter at this point is useless.

Not really. If we ignore her, some may see her claims as validated. If we ban her, she's a martyr. Unfortunately, because of how outsiders view things they have no context to, we're stuck with her inane rambling.

 

[Raansu]

You and Raansu proved that by how you came at me.

When during this entire conversation did I ever come at you? I know you don't like me but I wasn't aware having a discussion meant I was attacking you even though you keep slamming the website and side stepping Mr Wah's questions over and over.

So far it just seems you guys use what influence you do have to consolidate power by having the attention of Team Ninja.You use this to enforce your ways and values on the community. Its evident in the streams when I see commentators give shot outs to the FSD site and community.So in that aspect it does come off as you guys creating a DOA world order built by your own ideals and thinking of what a DOA community should be.

This makes absolutely no sense. Why would you not promote the community you are part of to a stream of 3k plus views? I don't see how any of this has anything to do with some weird power trip you think is going on. You can post on TN's facebook page and on their twitter just like anyone else. If we had so much influence on the game you really think there would have been so many nerfs over the years? Heck Hitomi got worse since vanilla. My poor Hitomi

 

[Awesmic]

FSD is not welcoming to every body.Certain ways of thinking and opinions will get you put on blast by
certain vocal members of the community.You and Raansu proved that by how you came at me.Its obvious your new to this community.As evident by you not knowing of the DOA central website I am not. Ask all the older members on this site and they will tell you about it.How do you think lopedo got is illustrious reputation of being a trolling the community.You remind me of Lopedo back in the day.

I have met cool people and dealt with people like you Kohlrak since I've joined this site and the FGC in general.

Whoa, now... I wasn't expecting the debate to go this direction. I thought y'all were getting along at first and just jokin' around.

If there's one thing I do know, I can confidently vouch that Kohlrak is nothing like what you describe him to be.

He's relatively new, and just doesn't know you quite as well as a few others. That being said, he's only taking what you're saying at face value... and even I gotta agree with most of his points being made here, along with Mr.Wah and Hajin.

But I won't take up too much time explaining things here on the current goings-on with FSD since your absence. For now all I can say is take our word for it that things have been better around this site, as opposed to certain DOA-centric Facebook groups as Yurlungur mentioned earlier (which I share the exact same sentiments). I'll try to explain more on a PM if you'll allow me to.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Which is an issue. But it's an issue of human nature, and the only real solution is some public outreach to try to break the border, because there should not be 2 communities simply because of venue. TN has worked on trying to break the border, so why aren't we (that's addressed to everyone, really)?

I provide assistance to people in the community all the time when I can, always have. When someone requests my assistance, I do what I can to help to the best of my ability. Especially in the NorCal scene and most especially at any event I attend. And yes, I do remember that conversation.

Something else you also must understand is that there have been several people in this community that either publicly refused not to support our community in ways that can be very positive for the game and community.

And several people have also have shown they do not want help from anyone, or anyone specifically because of some grudge they hold towards someone, or something. Or some form of self-pride, which I never come to understand when said person(s) literally ask for some help. So that boundary continues to linger because of things like this.

Some people literally do not want things to get any better, which is very sad.

Last note, I never said ignore her, I said the banter that has been displayed between her and others only leading negativity is useless. Simply because it isn't going anywhere, and it goes against the point of this thread's OP.

Instead of dwelling on the negativity, we are supposed to be doing things to help boost more positive foreground and background.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

@Mailifang I have not seen such lengthy posts say so little...

All we ask for is some solid examples, or evidence, etc. to back-up your claims, because I think your lack of support is what's hurting your arguments more than anything leading to the impression that the community is attacking you.

As for me, I just want to know who these offline "high level players", because I'm always curious to know more about our ever exclusive top players .

If I didn't know better, I'd say you just have a personal grudge against the offline community (neitherless the "high level players) and are ironically using this thread to vent your pent up frustrations from god knows how long ago. If you want to help this community, stop bitching and just focus on positive contributions. Just my 2cents!

 

[Kohlrak]

I provide assistance to people in the community all the time when I can, always have. When someone requests my assistance, I do what I can to help to the best of my ability. Especially in the NorCal scene and most especially at any event I attend. And yes, I do remember that conversation.

And for that, you re good for this community.

Something else you also must understand is that there have been several people in this community that either publicly refused not to support our community in ways that can be very positive for the game and community.

And, as we've discussed before, some people got caught in the crossfire that shouldn't have (mainly, everyone without the context).

And several people have also have shown they do not want help from anyone, or anyone specifically because of some grudge they hold towards someone, or something. Or some form of self-pride, which I never come to understand when said person(s) literally ask for some help. So that boundary continues to linger because of things like this.

Some people literally do not want things to get any better, which is very sad.

And, thus, we'll leave them behind. If they demand help, but refuse it when it's offered, they'll be left behind. Surely, with the next iteration, they won't be investing. Normally i'd say that's a bad thing, since we can't afford to loose people, but when you have people who have every intention of screwing things up, it becomes necessary.

Last note, I never said ignore her, I said the banter that has been displayed between her and others only leading negativity is useless. Simply because it isn't going anywhere, and it goes against the point of this thread's OP.

Very much so. The problem is, she sill keep posting, thus making the banter inevitable unless we either ignore her or ban her, both of which doesn't turn out good. That is, unless you have a better solution for dealing with one of said people who clearly doesn't want things to get any better. Not to say that the banter is a good oslution rather, it's the only solution that, to me at least, makes any sense.

Instead of dwelling on the negativity, we are supposed to be doing things to help boost more positive foreground and background.

Well, how do you be positive without having a problem? How do you know light, without dark? The thing is, we need to come to conclusions and solutions when negative things show up. As far as i can see, this is one of the biggest problems with the whining here.