Should being able to counter out of stuns be removed?

[Gill Hustle]

This idea came up to me yesterday.

So how about it? If the engine were the same but you you could ONLY use counters from neutral or while blocking a string, do you thing this would make the game better.

This would cut down on the amount of random counters and secure low counter spam, right?

 

[Raansu]

Depends on which version you are talking about. DoA4 and DoAD I would say hell no because the game is so stun heavy. I do feel the game needs unholdable setups from older doa's though, but removing holds completely from stun would be a bit much. In older doa's the hold system wasnt as annoying as it is in doa4 and doad because like I said, there were actual setups that punished players.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I concur with Raansu. As DOA4 and DOAD are designed, not being able to hold in stun would do too much damage, because even on normal hit (and being hit while FreeStepping) put you in a stun by so many attacks. At that point, you'd have 85% damaging combos from a simple

 

[grap3fruitman]

Bring back the stun system from 2 and 3 with single direction parries and double-direction holds. I like Rikuto's suggestion of a three-point parry and a six-point counter sytem in another thread but, if necessary, that could be dumbed down to two and four. You can't parry in a stun though you would be able to do a hold but it would less likely to be a lucky hold for easy damage.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I personally would be more a fan of the high and low holds returning to parries, and the "defensive holds" as we know them now only happen in a 4 point system (, , , ).

 

[Rikuto]

It should be removed from stun completely regardless of which version its on.

I get tapped once in tekken on a counter-hit and it's a garaunteed 50% of my lifebar gone, why should it be any different here?

DOA players are spoiled with the easy ass counters. Even having the counters with the giant window from neutral is too much.

Until Team Ninja decides to just grow a pair and get rid of it, high level play will always come down to finding new and exciting mindfucks for baiting a high counter throw.

Personally I'm getting sick of that crappy RPS gameplay when the engine can be used for much more then that.

Of course... it's DOA, so that will never happen.

In the meantime, I'll go with 3 point parry and 6 point holds.

 

[Gill Hustle]

Hmm well going with what Rikuto posted I was actually thinking like Tekken, VF, and Soul Calibur (Guard Impact) when i thought of this. As for the stuns, you "shake" your self out of stun (Tekken) the same way with slow escape right?

To what Raansu and Mr. Wah said, what if level of stun was just modified as well for the new system.

Another thing on Slow Escape, wouldn't it be better if you could hold Free and shake the stick as opposed to "mashing buttons".

I've known about it for a while but never try as much because I'm worried I'll do it to quickly, attack by mistake, and receive a counter hit. If I hold block I can just go back to defense.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You can hold and mash directions. You just might accidentally hold.

 

[Gill Hustle]

You can hold and mash directions. You just might accidentally hold.

Really? I don't think that ever happened, but if it's true than that should be disabled and you should be able to grab while holding than pressing , or attack/movement with imo. (can't test out right now)

But Sorwah, it's faster if you mash to recover anyway isn't it? That's why I preferred holding .

And there should be more visual recovery (on screen notation) cuz if I didn't come here or any of the DOA sites that a lot of us frequent, I wouldn't know about slow escape.

 

[Rikuto]

If you hold and mash directions you will not accidently hold unless you somehow release and tap it again.

I've been slow escaping this way for years, and it IS the safest way to do it.

Just make sure you hit before you start hitting directions.

And yes, you can "escape" faster if you mash buttons instead, but due to how extreme the buffer system is you will end up doing some random, crazy ass move as you come out of stun and it's virtually impossible to control what it will be.

 

[virtuaPAI]

The holding out of stun is corny and played out. The game need to be less focused on criticals and more on other aspects of the game.

 

[Allan Paris]

No, I don't feel that holding out of stuns should be taken out. Raansu and Sorwah pretty much summed it all up as to why I also feel that they shouldn't be removed. Now, if what VP has suggested is possible I'd like to see a DOA like it, but it will be weird because what other defensive aspects could you focus on to get you out of a stun, slow escaping will not always do it.

If the game is less focused on criticals in what other areas could be focused on so that aspect of the game isn't so dominant?

 

[virtuaPAI]

The game can focus on more of the exchange between attacks(like the other major fighters), with throws and holds as major supplements. Both Doa2 and Doa3 did this well, but this can be pushed further to make a better Doa.

 

[Gill Hustle]

The game can focus on more of the exchange between attacks(like the other major fighters), with throws and holds as major supplements. Both Doa2 and Doa3 did this well, but this can be pushed further to make a better Doa.

This is more where I'm leaning.

People who play unsafely/high risk can get away with too much on the current system. So modifying the amount of stun as well could balance things out.

This became more apparent with me the last and first time I beat Rikuto , and then I had to deal with the other players in the room. This coupled with some of the people I've played on DOAD, I'm starting to get why DOA4 gets the hate.

I apologize for being "slow" on that guys

 

[Matt Ponton]

Haha, the point is to have fun playing a game you enjoy. For many of us, DOA4 wouldn't exactly be the version we have the most fun playing. For others, it may.

 

[Raansu]

@Rikuto

Tekken's stun system is nothing like DoA though. Removing holds completely from stuns just would not work well with the stun system. As I said before, the game needs more frame advantage and setups that remove the ability to hold out of certain stuns like in doa2 and 3, but removing holds completely from stuns just would not work. Not with how stuns work in doa.

 

[Rikuto]

@Rikuto

Tekken's stun system is nothing like DoA though. Removing holds completely from stuns just would not work well with the stun system. As I said before, the game needs more frame advantage and setups that remove the ability to hold out of certain stuns like in doa2 and 3, but removing holds completely from stuns just would not work. Not with how stuns work in doa.

50% on a hit is 50% on a hit.

 

[Raansu]

50% on a hit is 50% on a hit.

But it's still a completely different system. It just would not work with how DoA's stun system works. DoA3.1 had the right idea with how holds should of worked. It should of gone from there, but it didn't. Either way, to remove holds from stuns would mean completely changing how DoA does the stun game, which I'm not sure how I would feel about that. I hate the way doa4 plays, but the stun game from doa1-3 is a staple of what drew me to doa and why I liked it.

 

[virtuaPAI]

TN can remove Dh'ing from criticals, and still have fair exchanges. For most criticals, they can give specific frame advantage (+1 +9) where the character cannot move for a few frames. TN can also have regular Doa style criticals that are only Slow escapable up to -5 or so (that don't require full meter).

 

[Rikuto]

But it's still a completely different system. It just would not work with how DoA's stun system works. DoA3.1 had the right idea with how holds should of worked. It should of gone from there, but it didn't. Either way, to remove holds from stuns would mean completely changing how DoA does the stun game, which I'm not sure how I would feel about that. I hate the way doa4 plays, but the stun game from doa1-3 is a staple of what drew me to doa and why I liked it.

Stuns should be changed, you're absolutely right.

But the game would still be better if you removed counters in stun, even with the current stun system.

Why?

Because 50% on hit is... 50% on hit.