DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

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Force_of_Nature

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Just a heads up for anyone that fights Lisa or La Mariposa. If you block her 4H+K (an i12, 40 dmg "DP" move), use a 236K Cannon Drill kick to punish it, since it has massive pushback making it safe against throw punishment. It's -26 on block so it requires a move about i24 or faster to punish it. 4H+K occasionally works (i23 move with 2.59M range) but seems really unreliable and is murder on block itself when it's unable to punish Lisa's 4H+K. 3H+K & 66K also can't reach far enough to punish 4H+K.

So yeah, 236K seems like your best bet. If this move goes unpunished, Lisa players will abuse this in close range against Ayane since it beats out her 2P, 6P & 6K.

Edit: Actually you can dash forward for moves like 66KK4 in order to punish 4H+K. But you really need to be on point, and Lisa has to have done 4H+K in point blank range. Still advise 236K anywho.
 
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LunaKage

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I love you for that Force. I'm so tired of that move ;w;

Now if only I can find a similar move for Marie, so I don't have to counter pick Lisa with Ayane all the time.
 

Force_of_Nature

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I love you for that Force. I'm so tired of that move ;w;

Now if only I can find a similar move for Marie, so I don't have to counter pick Lisa with Ayane all the time.

Lol, No problem dude ;)! Lol, ouch, 236P can't even reach for Marie O_O. Your best bet is to Minuet when you anticipate it then punish with BT T for a strong semi-guaranteed setup.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Just a heads up for anyone that fights Lisa or La Mariposa. If you block her 4H+K (an i12, 40 dmg "DP" move), use a 236K Cannon Drill kick to punish it, since it has massive pushback making it safe against throw punishment. It's -26 on block so it requires a move about i24 or faster to punish it. 4H+K occasionally works (i23 move with 2.59M range) but seems really unreliable and is murder on block itself when it's unable to punish Lisa's 4H+K. 3H+K & 66K also can't reach far enough to punish 4H+K.

So yeah, 236K seems like your best bet. If this move goes unpunished, Lisa players will abuse this in close range against Ayane since it beats out her 2P, 6P & 6K.

Edit: Actually you can dash forward for moves like 66KK4 in order to punish 4H+K. But you really need to be on point, and Lisa has to have done 4H+K in point blank range. Still advise 236K anywho.

Yeah, I was about to say you can actually just dash in and do 4K or 4H+K but you already made the edit. 4P+K works as well.

Also, for those fighting Leifang, a need to know is that her 2H+K and all variants into the 2H+K low are -19 on block, strike punishable. 4K and 4P+K are good strike punishment here, actually 4P+K will launch high because Leifang is left in a crouching state.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Yeah, I was about to say you can actually just dash in and do 4K or 4H+K but you already made the edit. 4P+K works as well.

Also, for those fighting Leifang, a need to know is that her 2H+K and all variants into the 2H+K low are -19 on block, strike punishable. 4K and 4P+K are good strike punishment here, actually 4P+K will launch high because Leifang is left in a crouching state.

Yeah, Lisa's 4H+K annoys the shit out of me so I wanted to explore some options to beat it. Glad to know that blocking then punishing is feasible!

We should discuss more character specific anti-tech and punishment in here. I find that just as important as Ayane tech.
 

LunaKage

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Dustloop has a whole subsection in each character section for matchups. That way each matchup has it's own thread. Honestly, I think DOA needs something like that more than BlazBlue does, so much more character specific stuff.
 

Force_of_Nature

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That would be amazing, though we'd probably need more contributions from the DOA community as opposed to just one or two people contributing. Match-up tech takes quite a bit of exploration.
 

iHajinShinobi

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The problem is that not enough of the right people want to share anything, or don't know how to discuss anything. Then the rest are normally pretty inaccurate information based from online latency play and no one being able to agree or disagree without turning a discussion into a drama act. More players should get involved in character discussion so that everyone is learning together.

This is one of the biggest steps to furthering the community play level (I mean c'mon, majority still do not see the importance of basic throw punishment in this game and Last Round comes out next year).

But yeah, I'm up for sharing more of what I know and discussing it if you guys are willing to do the same and partake.
 

Force_of_Nature

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*Raises hand* I'm definitely up to it. I see other communities share and discuss tech all the time. The DOA community should be no different. It actually really turned me off at first how relatively unhelpful these boards were when I first joined. Sharing tech is how everyone levels up together. I wish more people discussed tech in my offline scene too instead of just playing matches.

I do give iHajin big props for really elevating the level of Ayane tech throughout DOA5 & DOA5U's runs.

You also seem to know your shit Luna. Let's see how we can further boost this place. Character specific anti-tech sounds splendid.
 

Ael

Member
I'm not the most tech-heavy person so I'll let you guys do your stuff. As for me, I make random videos with Ayane. That's my specialty. With that said, here's the video I was referring to a couple of days ago. Sorry, no farting rainbows and butterflies, but it's almost, almost as good. :oops:

Have fun reviewing the video. :cool:

So, as you can see, I spun Ayane away after a wall splat and in backturn position, I was opting for her BT4P+K. However, her regular front turn 4P+K came out instead. I was surprised by this random move and thought I must have just did BT4P by accident, or ONLINE registered it as BT4P. However, after analyzing the video and confirming that it IS indeed 4P+K that came out, I believe it's the camera angle that allowed this to happen in which Mila's body position was distorted after she got up from the wall. The game then registered that Ayane was in front turn position after Mila got up and her body was align with Ayane's right thigh side, allowing this very rare occurrence to happen. It happened so fast, the precision must be tight to allow this small glitch to happen. Since this is pretty rare (first time I've seen this happen in 2 years), I was pretty excited to see the potential in having 4P+K in backturn position for Ayane. So, I've made this video to showcase the potential for a BT version of 4P+K. I've always thought it would be awesome to have that variation for 4P+K, just like 4P and BT4P. Surprisingly, it's super, super fast in backturn position. Doesn't it just make your hearts go, 'doki-doki'? Hahaha. But yeah, I digress. Just wanted to share this fun little bit. Any theory on how this came to be would be fun! (p.s. Ignore the last statement in the video. That was just for fun...sort of. Heh)
 
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Aerospark

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I think I possibly found something new for Ayane? I tested it on the wresting ring stage lmao I forgot the name of the stage. It gets some pretty good damage too and it's all guaranteed (I think) so yolo

64T, 236K into the wall, 6P+K (launch), PP6PK (133 on NH, 140 on CH, 146 on HiC)
64T, 236K into the wall, H+K (launch) PP6PH 7K (135 on NH, 143 on CH, 150 on HiC)
 

Force_of_Nature

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I think I possibly found something new for Ayane? I tested it on the wresting ring stage lmao I forgot the name of the stage. It gets some pretty good damage too and it's all guaranteed (I think) so yolo

64T, 236K into the wall, 6P+K (launch), PP6PK (133 on NH, 140 on CH, 146 on HiC)
64T, 236K into the wall, H+K (launch) PP6PH 7K (135 on NH, 143 on CH, 150 on HiC)

Is this guaranteed? It doesn't seem to work after a normal wall hit. Just PP6PK works. I'm guessing this is a mix-up after the opponent bounces off the ropes? Still good damage though! I do need to explore Ayane's options off of rope bounces better.
 

Ael

Member
I don't think a lot of the moves after 236K is guaranteed. At least, I haven't been able to find one that was absolutely guaranteed. I was able to hi-counter hold most of them in the lab after the wall bounce. 6P+K, H+K, 4P+K, 4H+K, 4P, 8K, etc. It's just that she has a lot of mixups that allows for great damage from the wall bounce if the opponent doesn't guess right. I mean, hi counter 64T > 236K > 4P+K > BT4P > BTPP4PP7K gets her 164 damage, I believe. That's more than half life gone if the opponent doesn't guess right. Kind of crazy.

Edit:
And also, the body position changes also. Sometimes, the opponent ends up going either to the left direction or the right direction from the wall bounce, or they end up in 1P side instead of 2P side from the wall bounce. Kind of hard to explain but you'll see this in the lab. This means that the opponent has to guess which position they'll be on and correctly hold in that position or else, it'll allow for Ayane to get some nice damage. It's actually pretty interesting.
 
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iHajinShinobi

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My wall okizeme I've been utilizing for awhile now. These are for both full walls and half walls. Due note that this is going to be a very LONG post. So, if you have interest in furthering up your game and mix up, it's worth the read.

If you're wondering what the difference is between full walls and half walls. Full walls, you fall down off the wall slowly, half walls, you just lightly fall down to the ground faster. So this actually changes up how your wall set ups will behave, it is important to know which walls are which on each stage if you are going to take full advantage of each situation.

Stages like Sky City Tokyo and Dead or Alive contain full walls. Stages like Arrival contain half walls.

FT Stance = Front Turn Stance
BT Stance = Back Turn Stance
SS = Side Step
WUK = Wake Up Kick

Full Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by PP6PK wall combo on full walls.

1) 3PK - Will automatically force players off the ground if they decide not to tech up. Eliminates their WUK option completely, you're at +18 advantage. If you do 3P and free cancel and they tech up, you're at +23 or +18 (if they tech up to the side).

2) P > BT1P/BT1P2K - Jab is for a couple of things; timing on the BT1P, and to actually let the opponent know you're setting them up for something. If they do not tech up, BT1P hits them, but it will not force them up. BT1PK will force them up for +12. Being hit by the BT1P puts them in a mindgame of me finishing BT1PK or not, because I'm at +27 advantage if they tech up from just BT1P.

If a player decides they want to laze on the ground after the BT1P ground hit, I can do another BT1P to force them up and be at +22 (or BT2P to be at +23). And the thing about this kind of situation is that you cannot suddenly decide to tech up after the first ground hit if you didn't tech up when it hit you. So you're eating the second ground hit in this case.

If you do P > BT1P and they tech up, your BT1P whiffs and you're at -4, but you still have follow ups to BT1P and they cannot interrupt that, so they are forced to take a moment to block (or risk a hold). Meaning you are allowed to do something else anyway. Now, if you KNOW the opponent likes teching up a lot no matter what because they are just tech happy or fear the force tech situation(s). You can do just the jab free cancel alone and be left at +27, the doors are wide open to a plethora of strike mix ups from everything, literally (Front turn stance, Back turn stance, spins, side step tricks, etc).

3) Side step P+K - When done, you're at +27 advantage and left in BT stance, however you can obviously go FT stance for mix ups too. This also allows you to manipulate the camera too when players tech up so it furthers your mix up because it makes it a lot harder for opponents to see anything and screws up their blocking/holds. BT2P becomes that ground hit you want to use against players that decide to laze on the ground, followed up by another ground hit to force them up. But if they do get up from the BT2P, you're at +28, and that +28 goes hand in hand with your 1P+K strike options, especially the 1P+K P charged guard break.

- Side step P+K3 - When done, you're at +9 advantage and left in FT stance. Again, anytime you involve the SS P+K, you are also working with the camera angling too so keep this in mind when trying to work with strike mix ups (because that takes time getting used to, the last thing you want to do is set up a 3H+K afterward and you got 1H+K instead).

BT3K also becomes an unholdable low strike here on super light and light weight characters, and that gets pretty nasty with everything else you can do at +9. 3H+K is an i10 strike here so i10 jabs are the least of your worries (actually you don't have to worry, you're at +9 lol).

- Side step P+K free cancel > 1P+K - Remember, you're at +27 from the SS P+K set up, so you're options from 1P+K has the frame advantage. 1P+K K is practically i3 frames, while a [1P+K] P charge is i15 frames. In additon, the 1P+K leaves you in BT stance, so if you've been conditioning your opponent to block more often, then your strike options from BT stance open up.

Keep in mind, the SS P+K set ups are better against players that are tech happy or want to attempt to mix up their "I'm on the ground" options. This does not work on players that laze on the ground. You need to condition players for a set up this potent.

4) 6P3 - Leaves you at +17, makes 66K (66KK4) an unholdable strike on super light and light weights. Also has the luxury of manipulating the camera angling. 6P3K will also ground hit and you can follow up with BT2P to force them up afterward. 6P3K does not hit frame perfect however, it's best used against players that willingly laze on the ground. The thing about it though is that people (even people who are unaware of frame data) know that BT3KKK can come from Ayane's 6P3, so they often do one of two things;

They tech up to avoid the lows, or they attempt a WUK. When you have players that tech up, you take advantage of that and set up for mix up ahead of time on read. For players that attempt the WUK, you can hold that on read, or flip over them, or flip away from them (yes on time).

5) 236H+KH - Leaves you at +19 advantage, and it is used strictly against players that are tech happy or players you've conditioned enough to tech up. Because 1H+K will whiff no matter what.

Half Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by a PP6PK wall combo on half walls.

1) 6K2K - If players do not tech up, you're left at +18 advantage. If players tech up, you're at +5 advantage. Another thing I really love about this set up is that 6K has such a long delay into the 2K low, that it becomes an unseeable mix up. When Ayane does 6K, you have virtually no way of telling whether she is delaying or free canceling the 2K low. So you once you conditioned players to look for everything else that isn't a low, this can hit them. This is a very potent mid/low strike mix up.

On neutral hit it's +12, in threshold and counter hit it's +18 advantage. Now on a slippery surface is where this actually matters a lot more, you score a counter hit from the 2K/2H+K low, you get a deep slip stun for high damage.

2) Side step P+K - When done, you're at +20 advantage and left in BT stance. Just like with full walls, you have access to the SS P+K > 1P+K set ups. The difference though is that 1P+K K becomes i10 frames, [1P+K] P charged becomes i22 frames.

Universal Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by a PP6K2K knockdown. Of course, you can obviously delay the timing of your 2K low to mix up the 6K2K knockdown.

1) 2H+K - When done, it'll force opponents up and leave you at +18 advantage. 2H+K is universal for walls and midscreen okizeme.

2) BT2P - Causes a ground hit, does not force a tech up, however leaves you at +28 advantage if players tech up. BT2P > 2P will force players off the ground and leave you at +24 advantage (BT1P can also force up and leave you at +22 and in BT stance).

3) 33P/33P2K - 33P causes a ground hit, does not force a tech up, however leaves you at +24 advantage if players tech up. 33P2K forces a tech up for +18 advantage. Just like the P > 1P/1P2K, 33P2K also sets up the mind game of the second low. If you don't tech up after 33P, the 2K will force you up.

4) BT2K - When done, it'll force players up and leave you at +14 advantage and in FT stance. Also keeps them position close to the wall, which is where you want them to be.

5) PP6K2K - This is a set up I keep at a minimum, and by doing so, it ALWAYS hits. You want your usual wallsplat, then you do PP DELAY into an immediate 6K2K. This will make the 6K whiff and allow the 2K low to force players off the ground. The delay after PP will vary on wall launch height, which will determine your whiffed 6K into the 2K low. This gives you an immediate +18 advantage and it is a real mind fuck against anyone because they never expect you to intentionally drop the PP wall juggle.

As I said, it's what I keep to a minimum, once it's used, smart players will look for it.

Obviously my tech continues to build as I play, but all of this has been extremely potent for me and for a good while now.
 

iHajinShinobi

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So I'm back at it in the lab today, and I don't know why it took me this long to realize Ayane is even more of a monster in stages like Home.

Check out the combo at 2:22 time stamp in this video;


The combo at the very end of that environment combo, BTPP4PP7K. Now, replace that with a PP6K2K instead. What do you get?

Pros:

+ High damage into okizeme.
+ Access to wall okizeme for techable and non-techable situations.
+ Access to unholdables.
+ Keeps their back to the wall, or close to it.

Con:

- 3 points less damage.

I'm replacing BTPP4PP7K with PP6K2K for that, unless BTPP4PP7K is going to kill.
 

Intelligent Alpha

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So I'm back at it in the lab today, and I don't know why it took me this long to realize Ayane is even more of a monster in stages like Home.

Check out the combo at 2:22 time stamp in this video;


The combo at the very end of that environment combo, BTPP4PP7K. Now, replace that with a PP6K2K instead. What do you get?

Pros:

+ High damage into okizeme.

+ Access to wall okizeme for techable and non-techable situations.
+ Access to unholdables.
+ Keeps their back to the wall, or close to it.

Con:

- 3 points less damage.

I'm replacing BTPP4PP7K with PP6K2K for that, unless BTPP4PP7K is going to kill.

Not against Alpha? *gasps* Seriously, everyone's a monster in the Home stage! I saw some crazy shit with Alpha at Home and Hot Zone! Talk about an environmental advantage! *jawdrop* XD
 

iHajinShinobi

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It works on the entire cast, only difference is that for super heavyweight, you just BT6K > 4P+K > BT6P > PP6P2K instead.
 

Force_of_Nature

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So I'm back at it in the lab today, and I don't know why it took me this long to realize Ayane is even more of a monster in stages like Home.

Check out the combo at 2:22 time stamp in this video;


I loved this match! Hajin played outstanding here! Excellent usage of the Home Stage, dealing with Hitomi, and very nice zoning/pressure against Lisa. (Mysticali seems pretty damn solid himself).
 

Aerospark

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I noticed in the new gameplay video showing off Ayane and Hitomi's new outfits & hairstyles, Ayane's BTPP6P~K grants a small relaunch now instead of the usual twirl? I made a quick gif of it as well, so, I don't know if this is good or unnecessary, I'm hoping it's good since the relaunch could mean extra juggle damage. e3e..
DICOM-Files.gif
 
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