Pre-Alpha Full Trailer Discussion

[virtuaPAI]

Not being able to hold off the wall is gold, I think everyone loves that.

Under DOA 3 style stuns (ie where they are very limited), then yea. I wouldn't mind counter-blows not being holdable.

If everything stuns like DOA 4 though, i imagine it'd be overkill because somebody sneezes and then WHUPS, all your life gone. high counter-blows should definitely make it impossible to hold in either case.

Launch height... i'm not exactly juggle heavy, so i'll leave this to people it actually affects.

-Being able to DH off the wall was not the real problem with Doa4.1's wall game. The problem with Doa4.1's wall game is the same problem that effect the whole stupid game...And that is the ability to DH out of any and every critical situation. In 4.0 pretty much every character had wall 2in1's that did upwards of 50pts(or more) of guaranteed wall damage with reset potential. This was a fair amount of punishment that rewarded both strategic placement and outwitting your opponent(cause your opponent knows you will be using those particular moves to get that damage). So what I am saying, it is fine to have these defensive wall options when your opponent can get a decent reward for your mistakes.

-The option to DH within the critical state has always been flawed within the Doa series(Doa2-DoaD) to varying degrees. Doa2-Doa3 were tolerable because you could easily mixup between your most damaging throw or launcher(juggle) against a critical opponent. In other words, the reward was "good enough" to chance being held. Doa4-DoaD failed because it was the exact opposite. Just because the former was tolerable, doesn't mean it was good. The underlying problem has always been the ability of your opponent to DH out of a critical state. It has always undermined the significance of attacks in the series(once again to varying degrees). Team Ninja should simply remove this ability and only allow players to Struggle out of critical state. Only attacks that have long initial frames and big disadvantage on block should be non struggle-able. This will not only improve attack usage significantly, it will also improve attack selection while adding more depth to the game.

- Launch Height would be fine if TN follow my suggestion of removing DH from critical state

 

[Berzerk!]

IMO if they make it so you can't Hold off the wall or be able to Hold after Counter Hit Stuns (higher counter blows) the game could be much more solid. Too many times in the game do you get a CH just for them to insta hold and you get nothing for it or have to just insta guess throw.

You could get medium height launch for the HC so it won't be a full launch but you will still be able to get solid damage or you could go for more damage and try to extend the stun for a higher launch. ( I would personally like CH = highest launch height but I know people won't like a game where when you get caught pressing buttons you die. . . .)

This would also make the tiers stand out much harder because obviously if you can't hold after CH's then characters with fastest jabs and mids will be the best. And characters with moderate damage from a medium launch will be strong. That would completely balance out the randomness I think. . . .I didn't think it out too hard but it seems legit in my mind.

What yall think?

I think this is a good idea, but as Rikuto pointed out, to implement as you describe it exactly, the stun system would need adjustment. It's a cool idea to be able to get a Counter-Hit, and have that make your next attack safe from counters, essentially adding a range of "custom" 2-in-1s.

Though it would have to be fast, maybe rather than the whole stun, make it so the opponent cannot counter hold in the early frames of the stun, and have that scale down so that on normal hit you can counter freely.

I think they already have the launch heights sorted out in DOAD, its a much more reliable game for the attacker to put in damage.

I actually think that the stun system in DOA4 can work with an idea like the above, but you'd have to change the stuns as mentioned, or - change the counters a bit, which seems to be hinted at already. For example, to counter in deep stun, you only get a "get off me" counter that works like a parry and does little/no damage.

This goes with the requisite tweaking of the active window for counters, and recovery. Again, they've got this close to where it needs to be in DOAD

 

[grap3fruitman]

I just find it strange how people would think that DOA5 gameplay will end up the same as DOA4 gameplay, judging on the Pre Alpha built.

How is that strange? What we've seen and all we have to go off of is a video that shows the exact same kind of gameplay from DOA4/Dimensions. That's a large cause for concern and a good reason to get up in arms considering how hated those games are.

 

[Hurricane Rev]

How is that strange? What we've seen and all we have to go off of is a video that shows the exact same kind of gameplay from DOA4/Dimensions. That's a large cause for concern and a good reason to get up in arms considering how hated those games are.

Just because the Alpha built of DOA5 has got the same kind of gameplay like DOA4/DOAD, that doesn't mean it will be exactly the same in the final version. They probably used that system just to give people the idea of what to expect in DOA5. It would not make any sense if Team Ninja still kept the same gameplay from DOA4, even though they know that alot of people dislike the game system. And there would not have been any point for them to do a feedback on DOAD if they are going to keep the same gameplay system in DOA5.

And As For DOAD, well, that was different. Because it was Hayashi first time on making a DOA fighting game, he wanted to test out if there are alot of people that still plays this game. I don't think he cared much if the game plays like DOA4 or if the competitive scene will like it or not. He just made that game to see if the fans like DOA still and they still do like it.

 

[grap3fruitman]

He just made that game to see if the fans like DOA still and they still do like it.

Sales say otherwise: http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/45695/dead-or-alive-dimensions/

 

[Matt Ponton]

It also wasn't his first time making a DOA fighting game. He's stated in an interview that DOA3 was his first time, and since then he's been there for all of the Ninja Gaidens and Dead or Alives (Including Ultimate, DOA4, and DOAD).

 

[Berzerk!]

re DOAD sales: Come on, sales are not a good indicator of quality or fan feedback. Remember the 3DS as a whole has had a massive struggle with sales. The fact is, its a quality handheld game, and a good refinement of the DOA4 model. Lets not criticise it based on what it is NOT - a follow up/sequel with new mechanics.

That's DOA5.

Assumptions on pre-alpha footage about the gameplay were always unwise, we're only just now starting to have hints of what they are changing in the system.

 

[Hurricane Rev]

Sales say otherwise: http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/45695/dead-or-alive-dimensions/

Well, not everyone is a fan of Handhelds. It might not be because they didn't liked DOA.....

It also wasn't his first time making a DOA fighting game. He's stated in an interview that DOA3 was his first time, and since then he's been there for all of the Ninja Gaidens and Dead or Alives (Including Ultimate, DOA4, and DOAD).

Ahh, I see. I never knew that. Thanks for the info

 

[Awesmic]

For the record, Virtua Fighter 5 was an excellent fighting game that deserved a bigger competitive following, yet it was a tough sell, especially in Japan (probably because of arcades?).

Just throwing that out there to prove Berserk's point.

 

[Tenren]

true, VF could of been bigger. I believe that was one game that arcade killed. The arcade following for VF in Japan was huge. When it dropped on Console it didn't sale well because It came out on PS3 first and didn't have online. So to play any form of onlive you had to go to arcade. The xbox version came out later which did have online but xbox isn't that big in japan

 

[Berzerk!]

There is also the important issue of Sega's poor/lack of marketing, and that VF has a (incorrect) reputation of being really hard to learn. So it has the inverse public perception issue of DOA - they need to jazz up the presentation and make it feel easier to get into.

DOA has a perception that there's no depth behind the awesome presentation and flashy counters, which is also false but we know they have work to do. We haven't seen anything yet that is that "aha" moment that gives us DOA players ammunition to say "this is why they are doing a good thing" with the gameplay, but at least we know, despite reputation, that the basic game - essentially - DOA2 has been built on in 3 and 4 - is very solid and its a matter of refinement to get the overall balance right.

The thing that won't change is that DOA will always have counters and so we as fans need to be prepared to educate and explain why this unique, universal element works as a good risk/reward feature.

 

[grap3fruitman]

People are still claiming that this is a shitty encode and not proper 60FPS so I'm going to post the media info from MPC.

Original File from Tecmo:

General
Complete name                    : DOA5_TGS_full.mov
Format                          : MPEG-4
Format profile                  : QuickTime
Codec ID                        : qt
File size                        : 1.64 GiB
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Overall bit rate                : 108 Mbps
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-09-30 05:51:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-09-30 06:06:45
Writing library                  : Apple QuickTime
©TSC                            : 2997
©TSZ                            : 100
 
Video
ID                              : 1
Format                          : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                  : Main@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC          : No
Format settings, ReFrames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP            : N=1
Codec ID                        : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                        : 106 Mbps
Width                            : 1 280 pixels
Height                          : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio            : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                      : 59.940 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling              : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)              : 1.924
Stream size                      : 1.62 GiB (99%)
Title                            : Apple ƒrƒfƒIEƒƒfƒBƒAƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰ / Apple ƒGƒCƒŠƒAƒXEƒf[ƒ^Eƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰
Language                        : English
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-09-30 05:51:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-09-30 06:06:45
Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics        : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177
 
Audio
ID                              : 2
Format                          : PCM
Format settings, Endianness      : Little
Format settings, Sign            : Signed
Codec ID                        : sowt
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                        : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                      : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                        : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 23.9 MiB (1%)
Title                            : Apple ƒTƒEƒ“ƒhEƒƒfƒBƒAƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰ / Apple ƒGƒCƒŠƒAƒXEƒf[ƒ^Eƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰
Language                        : English
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-09-30 05:51:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-09-30 06:06:45
 
Menu
ID                              : 3
Title                            : Time Code ƒƒfƒBƒAƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰ / Apple ƒGƒCƒŠƒAƒXEƒf[ƒ^Eƒnƒ“ƒhƒ‰
Language                        : English
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-09-30 06:06:44
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-09-30 06:06:45

Our re-encode:

General
Complete name                    : DOA5_TGS_full_60_FSD720p.mp4
Format                          : MPEG-4
Format profile                  : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                        : mp42
File size                        : 190 MiB
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Overall bit rate                : 12.2 Mbps
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02
©TIM                            : 00;00;00;00
©TSC                            : 60000
©TSZ                            : 1001
 
Video
ID                              : 1
Format                          : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                  : Main@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC          : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                        : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                        : 12.0 Mbps
Width                            : 1 280 pixels
Height                          : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio            : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                      : 59.940 fps
Standard                        : NTSC
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling              : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)              : 0.217
Stream size                      : 187 MiB (98%)
Language                        : English
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02
 
Audio
ID                              : 2
Format                          : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                  : LC
Codec ID                        : 40
Duration                        : 2mn 10s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                        : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                : 259 Kbps
Channel(s)                      : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                : Lossy
Stream size                      : 2.95 MiB (2%)
Language                        : English
Encoded date                    : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 05:51:02

 

[Matt Ponton]

Where are people still complaining about it?

 

[grap3fruitman]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35753195&postcount=262
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35754446&postcount=271

 

[Raansu]

lol its neogaf, who cares =P

 

[Matt Ponton]

Actually I'm glad you brought this to my attention. Upon further review the 60fps video we were given was in fact a 30fps video encoded to 60fps. That is, the source we were given is lying and not our "crappy encode job".

 

[R4712-VR88]

Why do we not have a 60FPS trailer yet?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Because they didn't release one.