System Power Launchers suck.

[Mailifang]

Extend the stun or Fast launching. Now you have to option to fast launch, extend the stung to gain a guaranteed launcher PL or PB.


Why's that.

@Mailifang about your counter wall situation. "A surrounded army must be given a way out" Given that they can't wake up kick. Either they managed to find a break in your offensive and turned on their own or give them a break by not truning yours on. Counters break rhythm and allow for you to set yourself to play the distance you want. Counters are also used to take away your opponent's tools of strengths. You should teach your opponent to be scared of holds. In regards to punish and destroy, any time your opponent is in a negative situation you want to capitalize with the goal to crush. You've got some intelligence to what you're saying but you're half all over the place.

@Mailifang ffs, go make your own "Counter Suck" thread.

It sounds like you guys are having a different experience with the game. I'm chopping that up to online favouring the offensive.

we're all on the same page as qualifications, unless you crush in tournaments or are a community leader or veteran in your offline scene.

Sorry for the things going off topic.But even offline nobody fears counters lol. I put on offline tournies and get together's about twice a month for this game and DOAU2. Players go all out offensively in DOA5. Combos,CB's,and PB's flying all over the place. Once I pop in DOAU2 fools start playing a lot more conservatively.And use set ups.

 

[Mailifang]

Extend the stun or Fast launching. Now you have to option to fast launch, extend the stung to gain a guaranteed launcher PL or PB.


Why's that.

@Mailifang about your counter wall situation. "A surrounded army must be given a way out" Given that they can't wake up kick. Either they managed to find a break in your offensive and turned on their own or give them a break by not truning yours on. Counters break rhythm and allow for you to set yourself to play the distance you want. Counters are also used to take away your opponent's tools of strengths. You should teach your opponent to be scared of holds. In regards to punish and destroy, any time your opponent is in a negative situation you want to capitalize with the goal to crush. You've got some intelligence to what you're saying but you're half all over the place.

That's because I am intelligent.O_O. You can put someone on notice and force them to change there tactics with counters in DOA5.But that doesn't stop them from going back to the well again. In older DOA games you had an opponent on mental lock down after 2 good counters and about 35% of their lifebar is left. In DOA5 most don't care.Because they know one good stun into a CB and PB afterwards and your right back in the game.[

 

[Argentus]

No.


Everyone should be afraid of holds. Those are aren't are not afraid of holds because they're character has enough stupidly equal mix-up options that the chance of being held is neglectfully low. It has nothing to do with the reward/punishment of the holds if successful. When successful, holds are still terrifying. The issue is more with certain characters' option toolset at any given time than the nature of holds themselves.


People used to be afraid to attack because there was a risk/reward. There was barely any risk to hold, since the active frames were larger and the recovery frames way too short. This made every fight a pissing contest between who was dumb enough to hit a button first. There was nothing good about that system.


Again, that's a byproduct of option choice, not of holds. There were less silly mixups available to most characters int eh past games, meaning the defender had a higher chance to accurately read what the attacker was going to do. As such, the attacker was more reluctant. It's not to to the relative reward of a successful hold.

1) Yes. If only for the simple reason that there's jack shit you can id with your controller while juggles are going on.

2). That whole "pissing contest between who's dumb enough to press a button first" might have been true....if throws weren't a thing. Throws (plus highs and lows) are precisely why you can't just "guess" at using holds.

On hold windows....I actually find the smaller doa5 windows easier because before, if I read wrong (or guessed) Leon would just stand there like an idiot for two seconds open to attack. With doa5 it flows better so if I mess up I'm not left wide open as long.

3) fair point. But I see it as more half that, half fear of damage rather than all one or the other.



The only reason I still get good mileage oit of holds is because using Mila leads to mounts which is a ton of damage, and using Leon does a ton of damage by default. I'm specifically using characters who are good at it. Buy I still get people just like....trying to mash Jan lees stun game, because there's no risk but a huge reward for them doing that.

And that's what it is. While before, the risk reward may have been in holds favor, now its the opposite, to the point of encouraging mindless rush down.

In theory maybe.But not in actual game play. People will still go on offensive and pressure no matter what damage you do off of counter in DOA5. Counters in DOA shouldn't always be luck.They were a strategic game play element. Now they are not much of a factor other than disrupting momentum.

Exactly. A lot of this "in theory vs in practice"

That's because I am intelligent.O_O. You can put someone on notice and force them to change there tactics with counters in DOA5.But that doesn't stop them from going back to the well again. In older DOA games you you had an opponent on mental lock down after 2 good counters and about 35% of their lifebar is left. In DOA5 most don't care.Because they know one good stun into a CB and PB afterwards and your right back in the game.[

Sad truth of it all.
.also don't triple post.

 

[Zeo]

It varies depending on the character. But Akira in particular gets a good 30 more points of damage from his PL combo which doesn't splat until the finisher. If your execution is on point and you aren't playing online, there's literally no reason to use a PB for any of my characterS unless theres a powerblow specific dangerzone.

People dn't like PL's because of the execution barrier. Level up your execution then and take your additional damage. 20-30 points is a big deal, especially when the match with your opponent actually means something.

 

[Brute]

1) Yes. If only for the simple reason that there's jack shit you can id with your controller while juggles are going on.

Can't do shit with a just frame Mila, either.

2). That whole "pissing contest between who's dumb enough to press a button first" might have been true....if throws weren't a thing. Throws (plus highs and lows) are precisely why you can't just "guess" at using holds.

No. In DOA2 you could not reliable punish a hold attempt with a 12 frame throw. The recovery on your attacks was too long and the recovery on holds was too short. It fucked the whole system up. It has a much better balance in that regard now.

On hold windows....I actually find the smaller doa5 windows easier because before,

Science and frame data disagrees.

 

[Mailifang]

How often should I get 200 damage from guesses? o-o

Edit- personally I never use CB's because I'm afraid of getting held, instead I do stun launch stuff. I see a lot of people that do use CB's wait a little bit for a possible hold which will extend the stun and then do the CB once the active hold frames are over. They do this because they don't want to be held

They don't want to be held because they want to get max guaranteed dmg.They don't fear being countered or the damage from being countered they do it for max damage.Now if counters were like how they were in DOA2U. Then fools would be CBing after every heavy stun they get lol.

Oops sorry about triple posting its been awhile since I've posted on this site.

 

[Chapstick]

@Argentus I'm curious what your stance on Kasumi's exp mid K I love to use is. On one hand it's a hold but on the other it involves a long juggle. And on ceiling stages it guarantees a launch or PB

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

They don't want to be held because they want to get max guaranteed dmg.They don't fear being countered or the damage from being countered they do it for max damage.Now if counters were like how they were in DOA2U. Then fools would be CBing after every heavy stun they get lol.

That happens now, sadly!!

 

[Tones]

So what you're saying @Mailifang is that PL's are hard to land (get back on subject dude).

 

[Mailifang]

I'm not a dude.i'm a dudette ^_^. But yeah PL's not needed or necessary to DOA game play as a whole.We got enough damage enhancing gimmicks as is.We didn't need anymore.

 

[Argentus]

It varies depending on the character. But Akira in particular gets a good 30 more points of damage from his PL combo which doesn't splat until the finisher. If your execution is on point and you aren't playing online, there's literally no reason to use a PB for any of my characterS unless theres a powerblow specific dangerzone.

People dn't like PL's because of the execution barrier. Level up your execution then and take your additional damage. 20-30 points is a big deal, especially when the match with your opponent actually means something.

Um....the past few pages says otherwise. Nobody cares about the "execution barrier". The issue is how retarded it looks, the bad habits it creates, and how unneeded it was in the first place.

Can't do shit with a just frame Mila, either.


No. In DOA2 you could not reliable punish a hold attempt with a 12 frame throw. The recovery on your attacks was too long and the recovery on holds was too short. It fucked the whole system up. It has a much better balance in that regard now.


Science and frame data disagrees.

1) you can still TRY and break out if the mila messes up. You can't even try anything with juggles.. just.. eat a sandwich and wait.

2) I only played 2u not 2 so can't speak on that.

3). Gameplay and experience agrees with me. Again, in theory vs in practice. I have a much easier time doing holds with the window being smaller because its a more fluid transition.

@Argentus I'm curious what your stance on Kasumi's exp mid K I love to use is. On one hand it's a hold but on the other it involves a long juggle. And on ceiling stages it guarantees a launch or PB

Um...youd have to show me what you are talking about.

I'm not a dude.i'm a dudette ^_^. But yeah PL's not needed or necessary to DOA game play as a whole.We got enough damage enhancing gimmicks as is.We didn't need anymore.

That's all it ultimately comes down to.

Stupid looming and unnecessary.

 

[Chapstick]

Um...youd have to show me what you are talking about.

I've done it plenty of times, we'll have to fight again soon. That and her low kick hold which gives her a juggle.

 

[Brute]

1) you can still TRY and break out if the mila messes up. You can't even try anything with juggles.. just.. eat a sandwich and wait.

You can try to tech roll if they fuck up. Not much different in the end, except that tech rolling after a failed juggle typically leaves you in a much better spot than breaking Mila's tackle and being left in neutral if she happens to fuck up.

 

[Argentus]

I've done it plenty of times, we'll have to fight again soon. That and her low kick hold which gives her a juggle.

I know its just I haven't fought enough kasumis to remember her moves off the top of my head lol.

You can try to tech roll if they fuck up. Not much different in the end, except that tech rolling after a failed juggle typically leaves you in a much better spot than breaking Mila's tackle and being left in neutral if she happens to fuck up.

Maybe. Id still rather get caught in q ground game than an air game because with the former I can try to break out. The latter all I can do is sit and wait

 

[Brute]

Maybe. Id still rather get caught in q ground game than an air game because with the former I can try to break out. The latter all I can do is sit and wait

The only juggle more threatening than Mila's ground tackle is her juggles that lead into her tackle.

You are equally helpless in either scenario. It just that when it's over, whether they fucked up or not, the juggle leaves the defender in a better situation than the tackle.

 

[Argentus]

The only juggle more threatening than Mila's ground tackle is her juggles that lead into her tackle.

You are equally helpless in either scenario. It just that when it's over, whether they fucked up or not, the juggle leaves the defender in a better situation than the tackle.

Lol okay wait up.


I'm perfectly aware you are right but mount is way too satisfying. When I get fed up with jabs and juggles, to just pound their goddamn face in with a mount. Mph.

That said, trying to break away from it and incorporate feints and such for more mixup. Because its creating bad habits as I become overeliant on it, in the same way as I'm saying is the issue with things like cb and power launchers. And certain combos like jann Lee.

 

[RoboJoe]

Power launchers are ugly as shit, but they are useful on occasion. I wouldn't miss them if they were to vanish come doa6, though.

 

[Brute]

I'm perfectly aware you are right but mount is way too satisfying.

You know how much juggles annoy you? Mila's tackle annoys everyone else 10 times more.
It being completely borked and OP is just the icing on the cake.

Anyway, back on topic. Power launchers, people! Yes, they are useful.

 

[Argentus]

You know how much juggles annoy you? Mila's tackle annoys everyone else 10 times more.
It being completely borked and OP is just the icing on the cake.

Anyway, back on topic. Power launchers, people! Yes, they are useful.

I will never stop the argument so long as people hate the ground game but still glorify stun combos and juggles.

But on topic. Power launchers


Retarded looking and unnecessary. Damage could easily be gained elsewhere.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

No. In DOA2 you could not reliable punish a hold attempt with a 12 frame throw. The recovery on your attacks was too long and the recovery on holds was too short. It fucked the whole system up. It has a much better balance in that regard now.

Doa2 didn't have 12 frame throws. Throws were 3-7 frames unless it was a catch throw like Dragon Gunner or Tina's 46T. The 12 frame throw shit wasn't added until 4.