Yes it is.
DOA5U Homework Time! Footsies and Spacing 101
- Thread starter iHajinShinobi
- Start date
Yes it is.
Excellent content. Footsies and spacing is crucial in all fighting games, but especially in 3D fighters. A lot of people don't take advantage of all the space 3D fighters give them. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer 3D fighters to 2D ones: I get more breathing room and I get to take advantage of spacing.
Also, I learned something new with Ayane and her spacing. I'm still working on how to play Ayane effectively, because I've heard being on the offense with her is not ideal.
Also, I learned something new with Ayane and her spacing. I'm still working on how to play Ayane effectively, because I've heard being on the offense with her is not ideal.
Ayane can be offensive, she cannot play a rushdown game. There is a difference between the two.
I remember back in the day, I didn't know what footsies were or the concept behind it. My mind use to think it was about this:
Where both combatants take part in some battle with feet and toes touching together to see who laughs and giggles the most or some shit. It was to the point I was sitting in the lab in a fighting game while looking at different screen at the toes...only to find out it wasn't exactly what I thought, which is a good thing.
But as time went by, now I know after a couple years. I said to myself, what in the fuckin hell was I thinking.
Where both combatants take part in some battle with feet and toes touching together to see who laughs and giggles the most or some shit. It was to the point I was sitting in the lab in a fighting game while looking at different screen at the toes...only to find out it wasn't exactly what I thought, which is a good thing.
But as time went by, now I know after a couple years. I said to myself, what in the fuckin hell was I thinking.
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Yes you can.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
watch the vid thats in the thread. Not all characters have the same range and space they can control but I am sure tina has moves she can use to capitalize on an opponents whiffs.
spacing is not limited to just using ranged attacks. Its fighting at and keeping control of a certain distance. This then allows you to make a variety of plays such as run up grab.
have you considered using her crushes as tools for keep out? some players like to blitz their opponent at bad ranges with strings and those work beautiful as a counter measure.
Really, that's what the thread, articles and video are for. Spacing takes practice to get down. Footsies takes experience, and it is possible to do so with any character. The difficulty will differ from character to character depending on the character's walk speed and tools.
And messing with Tina's walk speed, she's fully capable of these things. Her 6H+K alone literally says "whiff in my range, and I will make you pay for it". And I know this character can do it because @Prince Adon always does it.
If I can play a solid footsies with characters like Genfu and Marie Rose, then you can play footsies with Tina.
Malfury
Active Member
This paragraph is filled with so much gold. Just play with your character and fight people, seriously. Stop spending all your time in the lab and fight! Win or lose, who cares? Vibe with your character and learn from your mistakes, and understand your chars strengths and weaknesses. This will naturally help you figure out where on the stage you need to be with your character. If you need references, there's material all over this board and on YouTube.
No more excuses. If you wanna continue to get blown up consistently, then stay in the lab all day and watch your bad habits unfold.
Very deconstructive way to look at it.
Check out how the Aussies play if you wanna see this in action. Here in the united states of Australialand it's known as baiting. @Berzerk! and @FM BigBoss are prime examples the use of baiting at high level. I use it as well (more so with my PB) but not as much as those 2.
Glad someone mentioned this because half of spacing is baiting/footsies and I don't see this much outside of Australia.
Also crazy spacing requires RSI in your thumb or for you to get arcade sticks.
Check out how the Aussies play if you wanna see this in action. Here in the united states of Australialand it's known as baiting. @Berzerk! and @FM BigBoss are prime examples the use of baiting at high level. I use it as well (more so with my PB) but not as much as those 2.
Glad someone mentioned this because half of spacing is baiting/footsies and I don't see this much outside of Australia.
Also crazy spacing requires RSI in your thumb or for you to get arcade sticks.
Technically you should be able to because as long as the range on your pokes and whiff punishers are about the same range as your opponent's or longer (coupled with the speed of both character's movement), you should be able to play a footsies game. Not everyone has to be, like, Ayane or Ein.
Though if a character is really struggling with footsies, then maybe the character was designed with a different gameplay focus in mind.
Because it's as I already said in the OP;
There are only a small handful of players in the US that actually have the ability and experience of spacing and footsies, including myself. Which is not Ayane specific, it's because I actually know how to.
Malfury
Active Member
This topic more or less encompasses movement tech, whether Hajin meant to or not. You need spacing to bait. You need footsies to space. Learning how characters move and the experience on what to watch for and where your character needs to be on the stage is a priceless skill to have.
I admit that I am nowhere near where high level players for this game are as far as movement and advanced movement tech, but since I've been playing fighters for a really long time, I definitely recognize when I'm being outplayed. And the big factors tend to be movement and experience.
But as Force says, movement is harder for some characters because of how they are designed. For example, the slower ones typically are designed to capitalize on mistakes with huge damage. If you can figure out how to space and move with such characters, you increase your chances winning.
They are interwoven but they are still 2 different things. At the same time "evasiveness" deserves a mention as well. @iHajinShinobi provides a good example as well. With 3H+K Ayane's hitbox is way way way back but her leg and hurtbox extends way forward making the move safe from interrupts and whiff punishers.
Evasiveness is what defines at lot of Ayane's and Eliot's attacks. Have a think about that then ask yourself if they are more or less evasive than say Kasumi and Kokoro.
@Malfury you're just racists against slow characters. Every character plays differently, what you said is redundant. Each character capitalize on different things differently. While there is some merit in what you said, it's a limiting belief.
Evasiveness is what defines at lot of Ayane's and Eliot's attacks. Have a think about that then ask yourself if they are more or less evasive than say Kasumi and Kokoro.
@Malfury you're just racists against slow characters. Every character plays differently, what you said is redundant. Each character capitalize on different things differently. While there is some merit in what you said, it's a limiting belief.
Malfury
Active Member
Looks like you misunderstood my post. You kinda reinforced what I was saying actually. I'm not talking about evasiveness in this game. I'm talking about understanding and finding ways to be where you want to be on the stage. That's movement and spacing, yes? Every character has their own capabilities as far as movement and spacing. Heavier characters generally in all of fighting games have slower but powerful attacks, am I wrong? And it's been proven over and over that with innovation, they can move and space with the rest of them if you figure it out. Check out Gehaktbal's Mr. Strong. Perfect example of this:
No I just didn't read your previous posts.
And in the context of your previous posts and what we've just discussed you're right. Apart from that we've just both agreed and expanded on each other's points so I think the right way go to about things now is to get married in California and have gay children.
Speed of a character is just an attribute. Evasiveness is another. Speed affects everything about the character, the opportunities of a character has and how they can be used. Same thing with strength of throws and the ability to get guaranteed damaged via attacks.
In regards to how one plays the character, speed and evasiveness only feel the more so related because more than likely you're competing against faster characters... Which in the end is a balance thing... So yes they are very much related. Katsumi and kokoro players have to work a lot harder/consistant than Bayman to get their damage in.
I mentioned Ayane and Kasumi/Kokoro but since you're stuck on the big boys, compare Bayman and Leon. You can scale that down to say... Helena and Jan Lee.
Here's some food for though Zack and Lisa. Lisa is able to move back and forth more easily but Zack is designed to be in your face. Zack's footsies moves are slightly more offensive. Zack has all the fast mids and fast strings and stringing mixups. Lisa can work the easy launch, OH, 4k+h or drop kick to create space. Both have pseudo force techs. Which one is faster?
On that note of Bass. @Berzerk!'s Bass game revolves around executing solid 50/50s. He does space and distance control but that's mainly to slow momentum, whiff punish and he's actually got 1 or 2 50/50s he can start playing with.
Edited: You got a link to Gehaktbal's Bass?
And in the context of your previous posts and what we've just discussed you're right. Apart from that we've just both agreed and expanded on each other's points so I think the right way go to about things now is to get married in California and have gay children.
Speed of a character is just an attribute. Evasiveness is another. Speed affects everything about the character, the opportunities of a character has and how they can be used. Same thing with strength of throws and the ability to get guaranteed damaged via attacks.
In regards to how one plays the character, speed and evasiveness only feel the more so related because more than likely you're competing against faster characters... Which in the end is a balance thing... So yes they are very much related. Katsumi and kokoro players have to work a lot harder/consistant than Bayman to get their damage in.
I mentioned Ayane and Kasumi/Kokoro but since you're stuck on the big boys, compare Bayman and Leon. You can scale that down to say... Helena and Jan Lee.
Here's some food for though Zack and Lisa. Lisa is able to move back and forth more easily but Zack is designed to be in your face. Zack's footsies moves are slightly more offensive. Zack has all the fast mids and fast strings and stringing mixups. Lisa can work the easy launch, OH, 4k+h or drop kick to create space. Both have pseudo force techs. Which one is faster?
On that note of Bass. @Berzerk!'s Bass game revolves around executing solid 50/50s. He does space and distance control but that's mainly to slow momentum, whiff punish and he's actually got 1 or 2 50/50s he can start playing with.
Edited: You got a link to Gehaktbal's Bass?
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