DOA5 Is "Not Looking to be a Technical Fighter"

[Awesmic]

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/11/2...-dead-or-alive-5-and-ninja-gaiden-sigma-vita/

You’re also working on Dead or Alive 5 and we saw Ryu hanging off a rooftop.



Everything you saw in that trailer was gameplay. That is a feature we are putting in there and it is one of the key features that will define the next level of fighting games.



To be completely honest, after Dead or Alive 4 we weren’t sure what the future was going to be. We were trying to think of something new, but we weren’t getting any ideas of what to do for 5. Then we saw Street Fighter IV and the fighting genre come back because in a large part of Capcom and what they were doing. For all of the fighting games that came out we looked at them, but there was something wrong. They looked great with updated graphics and had online gameplay, but the gameplay itself hasn’t changed. It’s still the gameplay we’ve had for years.



We started to think how can we change the genre. What could we add new and put that into the fighting game? And that’s how that idea came out.



How else do you want to change the genre? Some developers like Arc System Works put an emphasis on technical combos while the Soulcalibur series is more accessible. Where does Dead or Alive and its new system fit in?



Dead or Alive is different from both of those. We’re looking for simple, but deep fighting entertainment. We’re not looking to be a technical hardcore fighter. We want a game that a lot of people can have fun with, but people who want that depth can find it. When people watch the second part of the demo that will give players a sense of what we’re thinking of when we mean "fighting entertainment."







Are you creating any new characters for Dead or Alive 5?



Yes, absolutely. It’s a numbered title, so we will have new characters. In the gameplay footage, you can tell the character designs have been updated as well. The characters that you’ve come to know and love will be changed too and players will feel the entire roster is refreshed.



Were there any ideas from Code Chronos that made it into Dead or Alive 5?



As a project it has been canceled, but people who were involved with that project have worked on Dead or Alive 4, Dimensions, and Dead or Alive 5. There is a link there, but there isn’t a direct connection.

Obviously, you guys will be mad after reading this.

But at the same time, I can't help but think this decision was partially made as the result of you guys pressuring them too much in making it competitive.

 

[Matt Ponton]

If they backed away from technical because we, a group of less than 20 people, "pressured them too much" then they never had plans to make it technical in the first place. Please don't try to think that asking for change means a drastic change from their prior direction in a negative direction from what was being asked.

However, the quote says they are looking for a deep fighter, just not a technical one. Technical would mean complex inputs and timings. Technical is an analog variable, I'm sure they'll find their method and the series has never really been technical to begin with. I'm sure he was comparing technical with Virtua Fighter in mind, or Street Fighter Option selects or 1-frame link combos.

 

[Awesmic]

If they backed away from technical because we, a group of less than 20 people, "pressured them too much" then they never had plans to make it deep/technical in the first place. Please don't try to think that asking for change means a drastic change from their prior direction in a negative direction from what was being asked.

Sorry about that. But the heated discussion the devs had about the hold system - or so they mentioned on the Twitter a while back - made me believe otherwise. It did give some idea that they were listening to you.

However, the quote says they are looking for a deep fighter, just not a technical one. Technical would mean complex inputs and timings. Technical is an analog variable, I'm sure they'll find their method and the series has never really been technical to begin with. I'm sure he was comparing technical with Virtua Fighter in mind, or Street Fighter Option selects or 1-frame link combos.

That said, it makes you wonder if they intend to change the hold system at all, which has been a consistent concern.

 

[Rikuto]

It does make you wonder that.

But it's never been a technical fighter, so I'm not going to give up yet.

 

[Matt Ponton]

They are listening to us, I can tell you that. I've already received follow-up questions (twice) from Shimbori about the feedback and suggestions I sent over to him. Now, what they do with that information is up to them and their intended design.

 

[Tenren]

some good info but I still feel like he told us things we already knew or guessed.

 

[LivingShadow]

They are listening to us, I can tell you that. I've already received follow-up questions (twice) from Shimbori about the feedback and suggestions I sent over to him. Now, what they do with that information is up to them and their intended design.

Any chance we could see what he asked? Or is that private?

 

[Rikuto]

one was basically asking for clarification on terms the community uses, such as the actual difference between guard breaks and guard crushes.

I can't remember the first one exactly. Think it had something to do with him asking what kind of strategic difference in choices the player had to make in regards to frame advantage/wall game.

The important thing was that these questions were asked at different times from each other, so it gives the impression they are actually examining our inquiries.

 

[Gill Hustle]

Sorta off topic,

I STRONGLY believe Dimensions STORY MODE are the remnants of what Code Chronos would have been had it been released.

That and some elements of DOAXX

 

[Matt Ponton]

X

Personally, I thought the character vs screens were nice in DOAD, sad they didn't use them before the actual online vs fights. I enjoyed the artwork.

 

[LivingShadow]

X

Personally, I thought the character vs screens were nice in DOAD, sad they didn't use them before the actual online vs fights. I enjoyed the artwork.

I agree, try suggesting that to them.

 

[Rikuto]

I think that'd just artificially slow down the loading time on the console games tbh.

Why stare at a screen when you could already be playing?

For DOAD though, yea.... no excuse. it was already slow.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

However, the quote says they are looking for a deep fighter, just not a technical one. Technical would mean complex inputs and timings. Technical is an analog variable, I'm sure they'll find their method and the series has never really been technical to begin with. I'm sure he was comparing technical with Virtua Fighter in mind, or Street Fighter Option selects or 1-frame link combos.

This is true. And this is something I don't think the trolls on SRK's frontpage quite get.

I'm still looking forward to seeing what Team Ninja has in mind, but these comments still just leave me scratching my head.

 

[Berzerk!]

I really have no issue with what is said here, because I understand the difference between technical gameplay and deep gameplay. This has always been something that DOA has balanced quite well. This interview is almost the same content as the gamasutra one with no actual gameplay detail. So steady as she goes.
The knee jerk reaction using this headline is the interesting part. On shoryuken the reporting of this takes an expected tone of reinforcing a perception of Doa as not complex = bad, but the correct interpretation is how mr wah put it above.
I think part of being an active pushy community may be to correct the ledger on that kind of reporting by presenting a counterpoint in the comments

 

[Matt Ponton]

I think that'd just artificially slow down the loading time on the console games tbh.

Why stare at a screen when you could already be playing?

For DOAD though, yea.... no excuse. it was already slow.

Make it like Street Fighter, you can skip the versus screen once everything has loaded. Unfortunately for the consoles, it takes longer than the animation does to load. For the PC though you load near immediately and can skip them before the announcer even finishes his line.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Hiya, I'm primarily a Tekken player with Soul and VF as secodaries and I only played DOA 2 extensively (started playing again, playing Leon).

I always thought the doa community had their head's up their asses and that doa was fun, but kind of a scrubby game with rock-paper-scissors mechanics, though ever since I started listening to the podcasts and having gone back to playing doa2, this has sort of changed and I got a better perspective.

Honestly, I feel really sorry for doa players. You guys have been run through the ground a whole bunch of times and I'd be surprised if Doa5 turns out good since it's also coming out on PS3, so I'm willing to give it a try. If it actually turns out to be good, then I'll dedicate some time to it, if not, then I'll just do what your average Tekken player does and shit on the series. I honestly want to get into the series, it has great levels and it's pretty dynamic, but it's such a rock paper scissors game for a fighter and I really want it to be solid. I want each character to have their own tools. Not having too much attention on the ninjas would be nice. I mean, they're in some way the mishimas, but they don't have too many good tools like the ninjas. Some consistency would be nice. I guess some cosmetic stuff would be nice to prolong the game's life span too.

 

[Rikuto]

Hey Uncle. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here hating on you for that, since the current state of the game is what has most of us cycling through our own depression. If you want to see the high-point of the series, I highly recommend you look into getting 3.1 (japanese xbox version). It's pretty much one of the best fighting games ever made, which is pretty sad since DOA 4 is one of the worst games ever made and DOA 2, while fun from a level design standpoint, is also incredibly flawed.

It's a sad thing, but DOA 3.1 is probably the only game in the series I would even bother standing up to defend in an argument. The rest of the time I'd probably just join in on the bashing.

 

[Awesmic]

Hey Uncle. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here hating on you for that, since the current state of the game is what has most of us cycling through our own depression.

"Depressed"? I thought you guys said you weren't depressed.

And I'm surprised that Tekken player hasn't sent a mob here to lynch me yet, seeing as I think differently from everyone else on this site, among other reasons. >_>

 

[UncleKitchener]

I'm not the type to send lynch mobs honestly and even if I was I wouldn't have bothered because most vets and old tekken players have probably forgotten about it or just automatically call it garbage since that's part of our instinct. Tekken players may be jocks, but they don't take pleasure out of being white knights or lynchers. Those are usually the scrubs.

I was around on DOACentral back in 2005-7 (I was around 15 back when I joined), though I got tired of the really ghetto atmosphere and I just went on to TekkenZaibatsu and VFDC. I got back for a short while to troll a bit when Itagaki was convicted of harassment and got fired because I didn't feel like I was achieving anything, especially with DOA4.

I'm still waiting for DOA5 to come out and see if it's any good. Trust me, a lot of tekken players would actually play the game if it turns out to be good for tourneys or get's played at Evo.

@Rikuto: Is that the Japanese or the "french"? Is the french version just the European version? If that's the case, then that would be easy to find since I'm in UK and that sort of thing is probably £3 on amazon or something.

 

[Rikuto]

Most of them aren't "depressed" I guess, but they aren't happy either.

Affects me more than most, since I actually tried taking DOA 4 and its community to a higher level, once upon a time.

Trying to take rock paper scissors to high level is depressing. Seeing it refuse to change from rock paper scissors, no matter what you do, is depressing. The corruption of the old community and fixed tournaments is depressing. The best game in the series is virtually unplayable to 99.9% of the playerbase is depressing. There are a lot of things that are depressing.

How much you let them depress you depends entirely on how much it all means to you.

Personally? I get depressed.


edit: 3.1 is the japanese version. The french/euro version is 3.2, and the main difference between the two versions is that the move tracking in 3.1 allowed for characters to successfully sidestep attacks in more of a VF/Tekken manner. in 3.2 the tracking is tightened up significantly and this is made much more difficult, and in 3.0 it is virtually impossible.

3.2 is still a good game if you can live without the sidestepping evading things. It had lots of unique wall traps, inescapable combos, and character diversity. 3.1 just has another layer of depth added to it.