Dead Or Alive 5 demo videos
- Thread starter westtrade
- Start date
Yeah I uploaded a bunch while I was sleeping so there are 12 matches up from the session. I tried to pick the matches where we did the least screwing around, including one where Rikuto decided to absolutely shame me 5-0. There was some good Hayate stuff going on so I figured it needed to go up. We were messing around quite a bit but the level of play (sadly) is much higher than most DoA5 vids at this point.
I skipped the first match you used Ayane versus my Hitomi though, as requested lol.
EDIT: Manny, the vid's good but you could probably do without all of the massively similar ones to cut down on time lol. Maybe an annotation that says "You can also follow up with..." As it is it's pretty good, just kind of obnoxiously long. Most of his combos seem to need additional strikes for stun and his strikes are kind of slow, so I wonder how viable a lot of these are, especially with the MASSIVE counter window in this build.
I skipped the first match you used Ayane versus my Hitomi though, as requested lol.
EDIT: Manny, the vid's good but you could probably do without all of the massively similar ones to cut down on time lol. Maybe an annotation that says "You can also follow up with..." As it is it's pretty good, just kind of obnoxiously long. Most of his combos seem to need additional strikes for stun and his strikes are kind of slow, so I wonder how viable a lot of these are, especially with the MASSIVE counter window in this build.
True, I started realizing that as i was going along, mybad. Thanks for the input. Hayate seems to get a decent launch after he stuns one more time from the initial counter blow and then launches. of course that requires one more risk in the stun system but he has a decent amount of launchers to mess with.
MASTER
True. Check out my channel for my vids against Rikuto. He played Hayate in a weird but highly effective way that was less predicated on stuns and more on quick strikes and low launches. It worked, but I don't think he played Hayate the way TN intended. He made him a lot better than most, yourself included, are making him out to be.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/TheOriginalCyberEvil since it's not on this page.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/TheOriginalCyberEvil since it's not on this page.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I'm not really a hayate player so I wasn't playing hayate the way anyone intended. I was just mashing buttons to see what stuff did half the time. When I found something with a curious property I would spend the rest of the match trying to use it regardless of whether or not it would get me killed. Lab mentality I guess.
Anytime I did get a decent juggle height, I'd start with something like PP and then my target would decide to float behind me. if they didn't do that I'd try pp2pk and the last punch wouldn't land. /shrug.
The one thing I will say though, and the only time I was really winning super consistently was by using his 8p+k. That special sidestep move is more broken than the cartwheel was in 3.1, I'm not going to beat around the bush on that. It was avoiding strikes and throws COMPLETELY, and actually has damage attached to it unlike the cartwheel.
I swear to god, I got like 4 different kinds of stuns out of it too, including some backturned nonsense if i used it in the right direction. Something is very wrong with that move.
Apart from that, it was sorta fun, although every match made me feel as though my IQ was slowly dropping. I came to that conclusion right around the point at 1:13.
Anytime I did get a decent juggle height, I'd start with something like PP and then my target would decide to float behind me. if they didn't do that I'd try pp2pk and the last punch wouldn't land. /shrug.
The one thing I will say though, and the only time I was really winning super consistently was by using his 8p+k. That special sidestep move is more broken than the cartwheel was in 3.1, I'm not going to beat around the bush on that. It was avoiding strikes and throws COMPLETELY, and actually has damage attached to it unlike the cartwheel.
I swear to god, I got like 4 different kinds of stuns out of it too, including some backturned nonsense if i used it in the right direction. Something is very wrong with that move.
Apart from that, it was sorta fun, although every match made me feel as though my IQ was slowly dropping. I came to that conclusion right around the point at 1:13.
I see. I always thought his ninpo was pretty evasive as i saw rikuto use it. However unfortunately it can always be low thrown before it goes into any attack. Pretty lame and needs tweaking. Nice vids though!
MASTER
Manny, thanks for the props. Hit me up with a subscribe and I'll follow suit. HP wants me to put up a full Witcher 2 playthrough (not sure about that yet though haha) and I'll likely have a whole mess of stuff up. Once I get my Ryu to Level 99 in Warriors Orochi 3 I'm going to show the world the ACTUAL NG3. The one TN just released was actually a practical joke, you see.
Sorwah, yeah I found out about that so I think I'll stick with this. The quality is pretty good even with my minimal editing skills at this point.
x Sypher x
Active Member
Lmao I almost died @ 1:13, that is too funny.
x Sypher x
Active Member
I think that's pretty freakin badass, but that's just me lol. What would be your suggestion to fix this "broken" move?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
It's a good step tool and I am very much against destroying step tools. They can't cover every situation though, and they cant be monopolized in effectiveness by one person. That said, it needs limitations and currently it has too much utility. I'm not one to stop using a winning tactic, but even I had to stop abusing this on Cyber because it was just too good and I could feel it. Sweeps and low jabs will stop it, i think, but being forced into throwing those out constantly is going to mess with a persons risk/reward too much.
The first and best option to fixing it is to make the followup punch more unsafe, and to force hayate to use that punch as one entire move, not something he can cancel out of for mind games into throws. I'm not even sure that it is totally safe now, but i certainly dont recall being punished for it.
Really though, you can pick any two from the following list and it works as a good limiter. Pick all 3 and its useless.
-- reduce the step
-- make unsafe
-- remove the ability to cancel the punch
Or instead,
-- remove the crush (under the assumption it can be high-counter thrown during early animation). This makes it crazy good against strikes but could mean a death sentence against characters with massive throw damage.
While the last option is "balanced" I dislike it because if he uses it to get into a backturned stun the game between someone like hayate vs bass becomes very coin flip, and disadvantage wouldn't really affect the situation either.
Whatever is chosen, it simply can't remain as it is. Hayate may need some minor buffs to other areas, but with this he's pretty much god tier right now.
The first time I tried it and he kicked me, I was like "Fuck that, I'm gonna do it again!" and so I did. And then I just got really stubborn lol and I think the only reason I stopped doing the special wake up move was that I'm not stubborn enough to purposely lose. I am incredibly stubborn but I hate losing even more than admitting I'm wrong about something lol.
They could just make it so it the throws actually track him during his wiggle motion. Throws nor attacks actually hit him with the exception of sweeps like you said @Rikuto. Sometimes i try to throw my friend when he does it because i know of the reward but unfortunately its also unthrowable making the move really good. However i wouldn't say its really broke, just needs that minor tweak of it being actually throwable like any other sidestep move, that alone would fix it IMO.
EDIT: I got you CE
MASTER
EDIT: I got you CE
MASTER
I don't think I uploaded it but in one of the fights he just stepped back and forth and dodged every single attack and throw I made for a solid five seconds lol. It was comical and that move is VERY good. Broken may be a stretch but it's easily the best move in the alpha build.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
They could just make it so it the throws actually track him during his wiggle motion. Throws nor attacks actually hit him with the exception of sweeps like you said @Rikuto. Sometimes i try to throw my friend when he does it because i know of the reward but unfortunately its also unthrowable making the move really good. However i wouldn't say its really broke, just needs that minor tweak of it being actually throwable like any other sidestep move, that alone would fix it IMO.
EDIT: I got you CE
MASTER
Alright, I did list that as an option so let's explore the cons of it for a moment.
Let's assume for a moment that grapplers are actually very viable in DOA 5, and being high-counter thrown is going to result in at least 50% from some of them, maybe closer to death with some of the environmental insanity going on. It could happen, right?
As the game is programmed currently, if Hayate uses the move in the correct direction he will get a backturned stun and all of that guaranteed damage that goes with it if you know what you're doing. Granted right now im terrible with him and can't combo worth a damn, but i imagine there's gota be around a 50% combo from backstun in open space.
So Hayate and Bass are fighting. Hayate rushes in with 66p or something and it's blocked. He free cancels and is at significant disadvantage. He can still use his sidestep move before any of Bass's really dangerous strikes come out though, and it can give him that 50%+ backturned combo if it lands.if Bass anticipates this, he can throw him back for 50%+ as well. If Hayate knows that Bass knows, he goes to layer 3 yomi and uses his most unsafe, highest launching normal strike for high-counter damage, and gets around the same damage at the end of the combo. if Bass goes to layer 4, he'll use something like 6f+k because he is at advantage and it will go into his air throw for similar results. Hayate could then reset this whole thing and go back to layer 1 using his sidestep move.
So basically, the existence of this move means that the entire match can be played in an entirely minimalistic manner with only the moves i listed above. Others could be used, yes, but once Hayate closes the distance after that first 66P, he can effectively set the terms of the match if he chooses to, and it will probably never leave the 4 moves being used that I described above.
If it did, there would have to be something much better, because its hard to get more than 50% on a whim.
So the question is, do you really want matches against hayate going down like that?
Like I said, it would certainly be "balanced" against a grappler... but I'm not sure it would make for great gameplay. It's about as coinflip as it gets, and disadvantage doesn't really effect the situation at all. Both characters have a pretty equal chance of dying instantly here, and it didn't take much planning to make it happen at all.
So while this move is indeed "broken" as it is, I worry a bit about the method used to fix it.
x Sypher x
Active Member
Ah I see, I think I understand, you make some good points Rikuto.
That's interesting. After reading this scenario I honestly thought to myself, "Well what if Bass were to continue blocking?" But then I thought, "No way, no one would be dumb enough to do that while at advantage." And THEN I thought, "But if Hayate's step move is truly broken as it seems then he could probably do it AGAIN and AGAIN if he wanted until he gets dizzy because it's so safe. That's a lot of coin flips." So basically whether you block or not doesn't matter because you could probably get fucked either way, That shit is broke dawg, haha.
That's interesting. After reading this scenario I honestly thought to myself, "Well what if Bass were to continue blocking?" But then I thought, "No way, no one would be dumb enough to do that while at advantage." And THEN I thought, "But if Hayate's step move is truly broken as it seems then he could probably do it AGAIN and AGAIN if he wanted until he gets dizzy because it's so safe. That's a lot of coin flips." So basically whether you block or not doesn't matter because you could probably get fucked either way, That shit is broke dawg, haha.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Yup.
Right now, the only way to "opt out" is to do a fast low sweep or some such, and those options really aren't going to do a significant amount of damage in the long run. If you do nothing though, hayate effectively has you under lockdown. He can just pick you apart.
Right now, the only way to "opt out" is to do a fast low sweep or some such, and those options really aren't going to do a significant amount of damage in the long run. If you do nothing though, hayate effectively has you under lockdown. He can just pick you apart.
OK
Hayate's SS move/
OR(,) is -9 on block, which means all the characters in the game currently have more than 2 throws to punish him with. The choice is up to you really. You could even say that if you blocked his move by a danger zone you can punish him accordingly so that the throw you use sends him to the wall for about 40% health. (assuming he does the attack of course)Also another way to stop the
animation is by just doing a move that tracks. Example: when you were fighting CE and he was using Hayabusa, all he really needed to do was like you mention, a sweep which tracks because of its animation and how the game IS currently programmed to do so OR he could have done Hayabusa's , OR . All those moves track no matter when Hayate does his wiggle motion.One other thing to mention is that he gets about 70PTS of damage at best when he is behind you because the defending player can easily slow escape from it (and maybe even block the next attack not sure). The only other option he could do is a Throw/raijin to substitute the launcher while the opponent slowescapes but then he would have to guess that the opponent would slowescape at all so he can grab them during the turnaround process which guarantees throws.
Here is the problem i have with Hayates move, for one it doesn't follow the intended rule-set that team ninja wanted it to follow (Rule: Throws Track sidestep moves for Hi-Counter Damage). Secondly i have a similar concern that the yomi level will be to short because when you break this situation down to the bare minimum, all the hayate player has to do is worry if the opponent will do a tracking attack or not since he still has the option NOT to do the punch out of the SS move. Problem is most tracking attacks are slow OR unsafe =/. Not to mention that a good portion of them tend to hit MID.
So going back to your "situation" if Hayate does 66P to someone, all he has to do is determine if the opponent is going to do a slow move that I can react to and HOLD or better yet BLOCK and punish accordingly and if the opponent DOES anything else then he can just go into the SS move and THEN determine if he should attack or not.
I personally dont mind him getting behind someone and whaling on them for timing it correctly or just because its a good move, i just dont like how i can't make the hayate player actually guess for doing an unsafe combo string but i have to respect the follow up and by respecting it he gets to go into his SS move if he wants to since the SS from what i tested so far activates in 1frame.
Which is why I still would like it to be throwable just like ALL the other SS moves in the game.
EDIT: Also if he is committed to the attack only (which is an interesting idea) who is to say he doesnt end up behind you every-time if the player master's the move? Will there be something to stop that? probably not because that's what makes the move good and unique.
MASTER
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
If it's -9 I guess Cyber just didn't catch on to it and punish me appropriately, though thats good to hear. Still broken as hell though since it can be canceled, and makes it just as lethal as the cartwheel ever was in my eyes.
Something to remember is that while you can indeed slow escape while backturned, it also guarantees hayate can use his most damaging throw since the turn around animation is actually throwable. Backturned combos are pretty much "guaranteed" in this sense because you can drag the combo out as slowly as you like and wait for that animation to happen.
If they don't, you combo and launch as normal, if they do, you Naraku them into the nearest dangerzone. Both outcomes hurt like hell. I found ways of getting insane damage with it using leon in 4, just haven't had the time or really the inclination of doing it with hayate on this demo. Plus, I just really don't like using that move....
Something to remember is that while you can indeed slow escape while backturned, it also guarantees hayate can use his most damaging throw since the turn around animation is actually throwable. Backturned combos are pretty much "guaranteed" in this sense because you can drag the combo out as slowly as you like and wait for that animation to happen.
If they don't, you combo and launch as normal, if they do, you Naraku them into the nearest dangerzone. Both outcomes hurt like hell. I found ways of getting insane damage with it using leon in 4, just haven't had the time or really the inclination of doing it with hayate on this demo. Plus, I just really don't like using that move....