DOA5 Bass 1.03 Changes

[CheesusChrist]

Other Character Discussions have a thread, this is for thoughts/discussion on the Buffs and Nerfs to Bass

Full List

[NEW MOVE] Sidestep T: changed to allow the same throw as 7PT.
[NEW MOVE] 41236T or 236P (hit) T on wet surface against back-turned opponent: the same kind of move as 41236T (back-turned, max charge).
1P: shortened delay input window.
9PP: shortened recovery from 28 to 22F, changed so that 33P is guaranteed after hit.
7PT: changed startup from 12 to 17F.
66P, 1PP: shortened recovery from 33 to 32.
46P: changed charge portion to crouching status.
PK: changed disadvantage on guard to -6F, changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun.
3K: changed disadvantage on guard to -6F.
63214T・69874123T: changed damage from 66 to 62, now allow a guaranteed ground throw after the end.
Wall 6T: changed to perform a wall throw even when near rope walls.
Back-turned T: changed from throw to OH.
Back-turned 4K: changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun
Ground throws (face up at feet, face down at head, face down at side): changed advantage from +11 to +13F.
Sidestep P: changed startup from 25 to 24F.
Sidestep K: changed hit reaction on Counter hit or higher to crumple stun.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Good list. Hoping for more but I could live with this.

 

[Scornwell]

Oh hello what's this.
[NEW MOVE] Sidestep T: changed to allow the same throw as 7PT.
Well.. was hoping for 6T, but the bear hug throw is insanely hard to react to so this outta be great for a SS punish throw. It's gonna be an awkward animation though.

[NEW MOVE] 41236T or 236P (hit) T on wet surface against back-turned opponent: the same kind of move as 41236T (back-turned, max charge).
Wha? Can't really comprehend this one.

1P: shortened delay input window.
Slightly good but was never really a problem. Hopes this helps new players.

9PP: shortened recovery from 28 to 22F, changed so that 33P is guaranteed after hit.
YEAAAAAAAA!! 33P is now guaranteed from all 3 of his sit-downs! And if 19i stun is the fastest an opponent can SE out of, that also means 3K is guaranteed into another sit-down, along with other options. Me gusta.

7PT: changed startup from 12 to 17F.
Well, now the Bear hug is actually possible, but it's still a pretty terrible throw unless your opponent attempts to react to the childishly easy 7P(c)P into CB combo that I've never seen anyone use. I hope that changes.

66P, 1PP: shortened recovery from 33 to 32.
I'm assuming this means that these two GBs are now absolutely safe on block. Very cool.

46P: changed charge portion to crouching status.
Well this changes nothing. The strike already crushed highs and is still terrible either way.

PK: changed disadvantage on guard to -6F, changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun.
Everything but PP2P from Bass's jab are now safe vs. non-grapplers. I always wondered why PK also didn't give you a crouching reaction sit-down like 3K, but I'm glad they fixed it.

3K: changed disadvantage on guard to -6F.
...from -8, I might add. Unsafe to safe vs. non-grapplers

63214T・69874123T: changed damage from 66 to 62, now allow a guaranteed ground throw after the end.
You can now compromise 10pts of DMG for a pick up. Interesting.

Wall 6T: changed to perform a wall throw even when near rope walls.
I don't see why this was necessary, but sure.

Back-turned T: changed from throw to OH.
Oh my guaranteed launch 50/50. An awesome setup is now even more awesome. However, I hope Mr. Wah isn't correct in his worry of 9PP 3K no longer being guaranteed...

Back-turned 4K: changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun
...which completes the 50/50 setup, if 9PP still leads into a guaranteed.

Ground throws (face up at feet, face down at head, face down at side): changed advantage from +11 to +13F.
After a pickup, 66P and 1P will now stuff every strike in the game. Get ready to hose Christie and Kasumi.

Sidestep P: changed startup from 25 to 24F.
I can't say what this means until I see the new SS in action. I'm assuming it beats something.

Sidestep K: changed hit reaction on Counter hit or higher to crumple stun.
What? Why only SS K, I wonder? And how much advantage the stun gives you, we shall have to see...

All in all, these buffs seem mostly auxiliary and to kind of "finish" certain properties of Bass. I would have liked to see any of the changes Mr. Wah suggested but these will work.
Here's the big three:
1. Backturned T is now an OH.
2. Pickup T is now +13
3. 9PP guarantees a launch.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Oh hello what's this.
[NEW MOVE] 41236T or 236P (hit) T on wet surface against back-turned opponent: the same kind of move as 41236T (back-turned, max charge).
Wha? Can't really comprehend this one.

It's saying that if the opponent is in water or on ice and you peform or to their back then you would get what would normally be :[[h+p]]: throw to their back.

PK: changed disadvantage on guard to -6F, changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun.
Everything but PP2P from Bass's jab are now safe vs. non-grapplers. I always wondered why PK also didn't give you a crouching reaction sit-down like 3K, but I'm glad they fixed it.

Yes, I brought that up to him at the launch party before the game launched . He told me it was a glitch.

63214T・69874123T: changed damage from 66 to 62, now allow a guaranteed ground throw after the end.
You can now compromise 10pts of DMG for a pick up. Interesting.

Another thing I suggested at the launch party. Oh, and remember that the lifebars decreased by 30.

Wall 6T: changed to perform a wall throw even when near rope walls.
I don't see why this was necessary, but sure.

I'm hoping they don't get rid of his rope bounce 6T and its range to the ropes. I rather liked that as I put you in a deadly mixup.

Back-turned T: changed from throw to OH.
Oh my guaranteed launch 50/50. An awesome setup is now even more awesome. However, I hope Mr. Wah isn't correct in his worry of 9PP 3K no longer being guaranteed...

I have a feeling that if the juggle is affected then the 9PP would put them in front turned sitdown which basically guarantees the same combo anyways after the buff to 9PP. It all comes down to if the 9PP is holdable after the 9P. As in, the change to the back turn stuns are to stuns that hit on the last frame only, or that the second attack on a string to a back turned opponent does the front turning stun no matter what (Making 9PP guaranteed just changing it to a front turn stun).

Back-turned 4K: changed crouching hit reaction to sit-down stun
...which completes the 50/50 setup, if 9PP still leads into a guaranteed.

Yes, now it will perform sit-down on CH/HCH/CRIT & crouching opponents on NH. Before it was just CH/HCH/CRIT.

Ground throws (face up at feet, face down at head, face down at side): changed advantage from +11 to +13F.
After a pickup, 66P and 1P will now stuff every strike in the game. Get ready to hose Christie and Kasumi.

Should also affect those who back dash.

 

[Scornwell]

Quoteception time.

It's saying that if the opponent is in water or on ice and you peform or to their back then you would get what would normally be :[[H+P]]: throw to their back.

This seems like a bizarre addition, and I can't really see the logic behind it. Don't get me wrong, it's a positive, but I'm confused on the logic here.

Yes, I brought that up to him at the launch party before the game launched . He told me it was a glitch.

Figured. I'm ashamed that I didn't bring up anything on twitter about potential glitches when I had the chance. I feel as if 236P+K should have had SS evasive properties and that 8T should have crushed lows. That would definitely made two horrible moves at least semi-viable. Can't say the same about the Sumo Stomp though. God, that move is completely unworkable.

Another thing I suggested at the launch party. Oh, and remember that the lifebars decreased by 30.

I noticed that Bass didn't receive any damage nerfs in the changelog. Since the lifebars have been decreased, Bass's damage output is going to be through the roof. Let's use an example against a midweight or lighter opponent to illustrate:
1. (CH)6P+K - 4K - (guaranteed)33P - 41236T - T deals roughly 120pts of damage.
2. 9PP - 3K (which I believe is guaranteed in 1.03) - 33P - 41236T - T deals roughly 100pts of damage.
3. Add in any throw and you win. Maybe a 2K while they're floored to make sure they're dead.
That's a total of 5 guesses on the offense.

I have a feeling that if the juggle is affected then the 9PP would put them in front turned sitdown which basically guarantees the same combo anyways after the buff to 9PP. It all comes down to if the 9PP is holdable after the 9P. As in, the change to the back turn stuns are to stuns that hit on the last frame only, or that the second attack on a string to a back turned opponent does the front turning stun no matter what (Making 9PP guaranteed just changing it to a front turn stun).

I think we're gonna lose the (9P)P as guaranteed on BT as a compromise for launchers being guaranteed after 9PP. It's a shame we discovered it so late, but I can live with that compromise.

Yes, now it will perform sit-down on CH/HCH/CRIT & crouching opponents on NH. Before it was just CH/HCH/CRIT.

...which will floor an opponent trying to anything their way out of the BT T after 6P+K. With the addition of the BT T being an OH, this is just flat out brutal.

While all these changes are pretty great, one thing that kinda bugs me is what exactly they focused on. It seems like with the new additions, all of the sudden half of Bass's strategy will revolve around becoming BT. Isn't that already Lisa, Ayane, Helena and Brad's thing? And why weren't strikes that serve no purpose whatsoever tweaked?(I'm looking at you, Sumo Stomp.) They must have some wacky things going on at TN...[/quote][/quote]

 

[Matt Ponton]

Oooh, that's a nice thought I didn't consider that I'm not sure if it's what you just said.

BT T > 6P+K > BT 4K
BT T > 6P+K > BT T

O_O

 

[CheesusChrist]

LoL will this mean that his BT T (with opponent BT as well) be ever seen?

 

[Scornwell]

LoL will this mean that his BT T (with opponent BT as well) be ever seen?

You mean the Troll Spin? Yes, I believe we'll be seeing a lot more of it with BT T being an OH. Especially against BT fighters like Ayane.

 

[Scornwell]

Oooh, that's a nice thought I didn't consider that I'm not sure if it's what you just said.

BT T > 6P+K > BT 4K
BT T > 6P+K > BT T

O_O

That's a lot of guessing but a pretty funny idea. Bass Tornado of WTF I don't even. I just wish BT T did something more worthwhile. I've never actually tested BT 4K and 2K against a BT opponent...

 

[Matt Ponton]

Just got the patch.

BT H+P combo is still in
Super Launcher 66K no longer performs double close hit damage
9PKP only guarantees pickup on ground, not in juggle (like the 6KP nerf)
has a tight pickup window.
6H+P now performs wall throw when opponent's back is immediately to ring ropes. Before, same positioning would do the rope bounce. It's 72 damage on electrified ropes.
Either 9PKP got weaker in damage or 3PH+P got buffed. Both do equal damage with 3PH+P doing one less in 1.02. Referring to wall combo. Each does 90 damage, 101 damage to 3PH+P if throwing back into elec wall.
is no longer guaranteed. the opponent can stagger and hold the punch, can't guard it though. Has to stagger at fastest though.

 

[UncleKitchener]

That sounds like a nerf to me. Why didn't they state these in the patch notes?

edit: I was referring the 9PKP not allowing pick-up after a juggle. This is an obvious nerf that should've been mentioned in the patch notes. Now it's going to be harder trying to put pressure on an opponent.

 

[CheesusChrist]

wont be able to see myself until the patch on xbox, anyone know if 66p is safe now? and still allows garentee pick up?

 

[Matt Ponton]

66P i saw as -4 if I remember correctly, and just like 9PKP it only guarantees pick up from on-ground combo - not juggle.

 

[UncleKitchener]

So, that should leave 6H+K and uh....

I think that's it for untechables.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Good news to those who missed the pick-ups; he regained most of his juggle pick-ups in ver1.03A/.04 of the patch. I don't think it's a bug at all and there are untechable juggles again. Some changes like superlauncher > / still cause the new type of untechable knock-down, but don't grant a pick-up.

Superlauncher > > for example does exactly half bar on HCH and grants pick-up. I think this'll def make him scarier.

edit: actually, it's 55%.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah seems they fixed the glitch of the techables when you weren't supposed to tech. Apparently it was affecting bass. Good now I can mix up damage for pick-up.

 

[peachyO]

hello, i noticed this in the notes:
is no longer guaranteed. the opponent can stagger and hold the punch, can't guard it though. Has to stagger at fastest though.

is this correct? i have been using this combo and have yet to have anyone hold or otherwise escape (maybe i'm not playing skilled enough players?) i also noticed after , , i seem to be able to get a guaranteed (the very forgiving buffer system reads this as bass' backbreaker). am i just getting lucky or is there something to this? thanks in advance for your answer

 

[Matt Ponton]

peachyO
Yes, that's correct. It is holdable but requires the user to fastest stagger and then hold... 99.9% of the time you'll have someone who is either only staggering or only attempting to hold. You won't get both.

As for ... test it against the sparring dummy set to React low attack. You should miss. Also the opponent could just forward dash to turn around. from FUHT will only give +9 frames and is 16 startup I believe.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Yeah, with being 16i, you're not gonna get anything guaranteed especially from that position.

after is still pretty hard to hold on the second hit even if you're some Super Turbo champ. If my opponent is good at stagger escaping, I'd only go for , but as wah said, the chances of someone trying to do both stagger and hold. People also rarely punish on block.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah, with being 16i, you're not gonna get anything guaranteed especially from that position.

after is still pretty hard to hold on the second hit even if you're some Super Turbo champ. If my opponent is good at stagger escaping, I'd only go for , but as wah said, the chances of someone trying to do both stagger and hold. People also rarely punish on block.

Well you can't guard 6KP from kitchen push no matter how much you struggle.