Are there any simple tutorials that aren't overwhelming for new players?

[jojo]

Like the title says, it's easy to get lost watching tutorials since I'm still struggling on basic things rather than trying to learn optimal combos ect. the only fighting game I've been able to consistently pull off combos and feel I understand what's going on is MK, since the 4 directional input and not having to worry about the added mechanics of a 3d fighter. It's why I've ended up using Jann Lee probably, since he has some relatively high damage without needing to understand combos or more advanced stuff.

My most used attacks are KKK 4PPP and 236K (flying kick) and as far as combos go I know 6H+K4 6P4 P+K 4PK (power blow) and 6P4 6P+K 6P+K 4PPP (since it's just mid punches it's basically impossible to use, I might be wrong with 4PPP at the end though, but basically all these 'combos' are pretty hard to get started for me). I've done the combo challenge minus the Lei Fang tag (which I've been struggling on), and probably will end up going through it and the command tutorial multiple times. I've not really improved after 200 online matches with him, but I'd like to learn a few basic combos or things that link.

Even just general game sense guides, and if there's easier characters to pick up the basics than Jann Lee it'd be nice too.

P.s. I read that most high level players don't think of pulling off X combo but they just move onto the next attack from muscle memory, I guess it's just from experience, but if there's any high level guys reading this do you just 'go with the flow' kind of thing.

 

[DestructionBomb]

How are you in regards to frame advantage as well as taking certain priority for safety and throw punishing? - these can help a lot and up your game. Since you went with Jann Lee there are some helpful Jann Lee players here within the forums that can help you in your cause on what to do and what you should not do. I'll tag them.

@Darkslay @Gurimmjaw @eks2009 - They definitely should be able to help you to improve and get better at the game in regards to starting up with Jann as well as neutral situations.

 

[jojo]

How are you in regards to frame advantage as well as taking certain priority for safety and throw punishing? - these can help a lot and up your game. Since you went with Jann Lee there are some helpful Jann Lee players here within the forums that can help you in your cause on what to do and what you should not do. I'll tag them.

@Darkslay @Gurimmjaw @eks2009 - They definitely should be able to help you to improve and get better at the game in regards to starting up with Jann as well as neutral situations.

In pretty much every aspect I'm bad, with frame advantage I don't know much really apart from his mid punch speeds, I'll probably start writing his frame timing for his basic P and K. I have an idea of which attacks are faster than others, but only for Jann Lee. If you mean spacing as in safety then I think I have a limited idea on that too, my tendancy to use 236 a lot works againt worse players (and catches out people who seem to understand what they're doing) but recently I've been punished a lot after they either dodge or duck, mostly being punished with a throw, which I've been trying to use after blocking to some success (as well as trying to focus on blocking more than holding).

I'm pretty slow at dashing too, though some of the things on the terminology thread, like the Korean backdash should help with knowing what to input and things like how the stun mechanic works. Against better players I can sometimes pull out a round or two, but usually I get dominated, either with long combos or just being totally countered at almost every level, if going purely by ranks I guess C rank players beat me most of the time but it's not a hopeless match. There's quite a few things I should pick up with more matches, but being any decent (like C rank for example) still feels a long way.

Thanks for linking those users, I actually found these forums from Darkslay and watching some of his videos.

 

[DestructionBomb]

In pretty much every aspect I'm bad, with frame advantage I don't know much really apart from his mid punch speeds, I'll probably start writing his frame timing for his basic P and K. I have an idea of which attacks are faster than others, but only for Jann Lee. If you mean spacing as in safety then I think I have a limited idea on that too, my tendancy to use 236 a lot works againt worse players (and catches out people who seem to understand what they're doing) but recently I've been punished a lot after they either dodge or duck, mostly being punished with a throw, which I've been trying to use after blocking to some success (as well as trying to focus on blocking more than holding).

I'm pretty slow at dashing too, though some of the things on the terminology thread, like the Korean backdash should help with knowing what to input and things like how the stun mechanic works. Against better players I can sometimes pull out a round or two, but usually I get dominated, either with long combos or just being totally countered at almost every level, if going purely by ranks I guess C rank players beat me most of the time but it's not a hopeless match. There's quite a few things I should pick up with more matches, but being any decent (like C rank for example) still feels a long way.

Thanks for linking those users, I actually found these forums from Darkslay and watching some of his videos.

Gotcha, definitely jot some of them down as they can help memorize. One of the components (possibly could be missing for you) to getting further in the game is also adjusting to the character the opponents are using, or overall match up. Course, everybody plays differently so situations can change depending on how it's played, however the base to punishing certain moves will forever remain the same. One of the things you can start off from is absorbing the types of moves the opponent's character is using and test it in the lab. Is the move unsafe? which type of throw can I perform here? is the move so unsafe that it grants me a free launch? - the possibility and resulting outcome is pretty large.

Definitely take frame advantage into the bag as it can save you in many situations. @Darkslay and the others may explain in more detail on where you should hit buttons with Jann and where you should not. Take advantage of his + GBs and whiff punishing attacks for priority to keep them in check. Jann also has the tools to keep a health lead for keep outs. Now an important obstacle that may take awhile but tons rewarding for the player is what I mentioned up there. Absorbing the opponent's character and their character attacks. Test a move that is catching you a lot via on block and see what you can come around with. If it's advantage, take measures and extra precautions that the opponent is at advantage for performing the move on block. Check the move on NH/CH, is it unstaggerable, how deep is the stun as well as stun advantage etc. The list can go on. Definitely ask around as i'm sure we all can try to help.

 

[Darkslay]

I'm extremely happy to know my videos not only brought you here but also started your journey as a Jann Lee player, welcome, sir.

First things first, I will link very useful guides and knowledge here for you that will help you improve your game relatively quickly if you dedicatedly study it.
First, the Dragon Guide, if you came here because of my content, there's a chance you already watched the Dragon Guide, and again, I thank you immensely for that, but check the written version on that link as well, there's some basic knowledge relating to his moves, throws, holds, and various other things to give a basic understanding of what to use and what not to use.
Secondly, @snowymoonman's fantastic Jann Lee guide:

This guide will give JL's basic meta and strategy mindset, as well as provide basic setups, tech and combos for you to get started, there's a few misguided info and some things I don't fully agree with, but still, it's a great guide and it will be the best compliment to the Dragon Guide, you should get a very well-rounded understanding of JL, at least on a basic level after studying these two things, however.
Third but not least, you come from a 2D fighter, the fundamental approach to the neutral and the pace of the match goes completely different between 2D and 3D fighters, specially if we're talking about DOA, the triangle system as well as some intricacies regarding the game's engine will prove to be more demanding than learning any character, believe it or not and for that, my great friend, @Force_of_Nature's Top Tier Tips guide will get you up to speed regarding a majority of the systems DOA uses, as well as general 3D fighting game fundamental knowledge, here's the link for the full playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV4Z7LoRwodBYCiMNOVwLGY75qkNNlNTv

That should be it for your ''study material'', from what I read on your first post, KKK is a great move, however you can't be throwing it randomly, it's high high high ( the move's literally called Triple High, lol), and it's unsafe, learning how to poke with K and K4K alone should be better, KKK can still be a potent frame trap if you can delay it correctly, and then, drop the Dragon Kick (236K), it's a good gimmick for those starting the game but against higher level opponents it will get you killed, smart use of the Dragon Kick is very difficult and requires you to know your opponent well and condition them, opt for Jann Lee's quintessential poke, 66K, alternatively, 4PP, 6P+K and 3K4K are also great moves to start your offence on neutral. Jann Lee's speed up close is not bad either, his jab is 10 frames, the standard in DOA, familiarize yourself with his PPP string and variations and that will definitely help you in the neutral, his 6P is 11 frames, that's the fastest type of mid in DOA, abuse yet don't abuse 6PP, smart use of 6P will make you hard to deal with in the neutral, and don't forget you also have 6PK as well, Jann Lee's 6K is 13 frames, the standard and your main mid kick poke up close, use this mix up your approach as well as interrupting people that mash out of negatives, 6K grants a great stun, and last, his 2P, it's 13 frames, the standard yet again, every 2P in DOA will crush highs on frames one, so use this to interrupt and get out of uncomfortable situations in neutral, be careful though, JL's 2P is -1 in neutral, meaning against faster characters you'll be left in a disadvantageous situation.

That should be it for now, as @DestructionBomb mentioned, learning matchups and how each character works will play a big role in your development as a player, but that will come with time, the more you play the game, DOA's not an easy game to pick up, man, but with enough dilingence and effort, anybody can get better at it, I believe you can get there.

If you have any questions or need any assistance you can contact me here or on PSN, provided you don't play on Xbox, lol. I expect to hear more from you, good luck and cheers.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Greetings @jojo, welcome to FSD! I'm glad that you've taken a positive step in improving your ability by seeking assistance here. If mechanical aspects of DOA5LR are giving you difficulties, I would recommend checking out here first:

@Darkslay linked the whole playlist which goes from relatively simple to considerably complex. The target aims were to go from Beginner to Intermediate, then Intermediate to Advanced. These tutorials complement the DOA5 strategy guide: https://www.amazon.ca/Dead-Alive-Pr...r=8-1&keywords=Dead+or+Alive+5+strategy+guide by Dr. Dogg.

The guide is a bit out of date now but does provide quite a bit of detail of how DOA5 operates in general (along with tons of frame data listings). Understanding DOA's mechanics is more important than learning characters or match-ups IMHO, though like others have implied, character & MU knowledge is also very important for success (hence why I've been producing some character guides too). After you have understood DOA5LR's mechanics, I would recommend learning Jann Lee's High/Mid/Low speed (i10/i11/i13) and take it from there in learning how to apply his H/M/L mix-ups and pokes. The players that @DestructionBomb recommended along with Shin RyuJin are all solid with Jann Lee. Good luck!

 

[jojo]

Thanks for the detailed responses, I'll have these four as things to do in the immediate future.

-Basic Attack Frame Data

-Read through all the terminolog/practice inputs I read

-Try to recognise common counters to my attacks

-Watch those vids

Playing training a little bit now I've already got a few questions too, does the black arrow input mean hold? I went through a tiny bit of Zack's command list and for a lot of his fakes it's a small hold till the sidestep is done rather than being able to hold it down for the entire combo which is what I've done usually. Also, is the red critical stun the max limit before falling, I was trying out some stuff with 4pp (I use the 4ppp quite often, sometimes it gets more like 4ppppppp from panic tho which i need to learn not to do) but even just playing around it's easy to get a 10 hit chain too.

Oh yeah and is it worth having a second character in the short term, not only to mix things up but I guess it'd help me see other matchups too, as well as is it better to get used to a 3 button controller (fightstick) scheme (maybe 4 with throws)?

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Playing training a little bit now I've already got a few questions too, does the black arrow input mean hold?

Oh yeah and is it worth having a second character in the short term, not only to mix things up but I guess it'd help me see other matchups too, as well as is it better to get used to a 3 button controller (fightstick) scheme (maybe 4 with throws). I guess it's personal choice, but I'm wondering what you guys use.

Yes, a black arrow means hold or (), i.e (6) or (hold forward).

A "dot" then a (3) means While Rising (WR) or crouch dash then release while pressing the attack button.

If you're learning the game, learn one character, but it's perfectly fine to dabble with the roster to learn what they're about.

 

[jojo]

Yes, a black arrow means hold or (), i.e (6) (hold forward).

A "dot" then a (3) means While Rising (WR) or crouch dash then release while pressing the attack button.

If you're learning the game learn one character, but it's perfectly fine to dabble with the roster to learn what they're about.

thanks, I completely forgot about those imputs

 

[DestructionBomb]

Remember that it's going to take awhile, so you have to bare it all until the end. Once you get that done examine other characters during training and test moves done against you. If it's safe around light negative situations, don't attempt to throw it. If it's big advantage from the opponent and he's opting to go on the offense, don't attack unless you know for sure he's trying to throw you from conditioning. If he attacks instead, avoid being CH'd so do not attack from their advantage. Once you examine their potential move or setup you'll want to hold it next time because that is what they opt for against you. One hold against that will kill their momentum.

Make them play how you want to play.