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Balance Who thinks Gen Fu is the best in the game?

TaijiMonk

TaijiMonk

Member
I recently had a discussion online with someone that claims he is the best, and most players agree.

.............WHAT THE FUCKIN FUCK?!?!

I have 3 questions I would like everybody who reads this thread to answer

1. Is Gen Fu the best character in Doa5 Ultimate? (was he in any other game?)
2. Is he cheap?
3. If so, ...why?

My opinion? He's a mid tier character. Wins some, loses some. Great power/juggles, horrible speed, very limited moveset, decent at everything else. He's my favorite character. I played him first in Doa4 and he quickly became my favorite, because A: he's the perfect archetype of the chinese kung fu master, and B: he seemed like the underdog of the game, no one played him. In general, what are your thoughts on him?....
 
TaijiMonk

TaijiMonk

Member
iHajinShinobi said:
Are you that DarkOwl person spectating the Team BEST stream last night? lol
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? No. My PSN ID is Taijimonk
Tenryuga said:
@TaijiMonk You still never answered my question about why Gen Fu is not top tier.
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...When did you ask me that question?
SweetRevenge117 said:
I honestly dont like explaining why genfu is good. Its pretty obvious so ill let everyone else explain it
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It's not obvious to me, and since you may be the main reason why everyone thinks Gen Fu is the best, why don't you enlighten me?

C'mon guys, 4 replies and no one has even answered the questions with any detail.
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
How about you enlighten us with why you think genfu is not top tier. I'm intrigued in hearing your opinion before I state what makes him top tier.
 
SweetRevenge117

SweetRevenge117

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Brute you can handle this lol. I dont like explaining stuff lol. Dont forget to mention how I never have to deal with a wake up kick have blenders for everything do insane damage tracking launcher 11 frame mid 4p+k faint stun sit down stun leading to massive damage and a super launcher throw. Also 214t which gives me +10....
 
TaijiMonk

TaijiMonk

Member
SweetRevenge117 said:
Brute you can handle this lol. I dont like explaining stuff lol. Dont forget to mention how I never have to deal with a wake up kick have blenders for everything do insane damage tracking launcher 11 frame mid 4p+k faint stun sit down stun leading to massive damage and a super launcher throw. Also 214t which gives me +10....
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...Well, aren't you awesome

For HaijinShinobi,

I mentioned that in my first post to this thread, but I'll try to elaborate some more. I don't know all the ends and outs of this game yet, which is the reason for this thread about Gen Fu. I just don't understand why he is better than the ninja characters or the faster, more elusive ones like christie, helena, etc.

I think he's mid tier because of his slowness, limited moveset (only 73 total, which is more than last game i believe), most of his best strikes are mid punch. No offensive holds. He does have good hold damage, great juggles and striking damage. Sweetrevenge mentioned his 10 frame jab...that's standard though, right? And his "forward p" is one of his best interrupters. But that's only 2 moves. The majority of his moves are slow. Take Kasumi for example. She's weak on the surface, but with speed and juggle potential, you don't need the raw damage that Gen Fu has. Characters like christie, ayane, kasumi, helena. They wreck my gen fu if all things were equal. Those characters are "great" at everything but raw power. Gen Fu has raw power, but is "decent" at everything else. I think the faster, more elusive characters are the best competitively. That's why I think Gen Fu is in the middle of the pack. With all the drawbacks I've listed, however, I think he's a well rounded character. He's just decent at most things, not great. Now, please tell me why Gen Fu is the best. I really want to hear it
 
Awesmic

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
TaijiMonk said:
Piece out, lol

Although I wish you would stick around and give us your insight
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Oh, you didn't know? It's common for top players to never share their complete tech... unfortunately.

If they did, players will eventually find their way around it, and then... well, you know the rest.
 
Prince Adon

Prince Adon

Best in the World!!!
Premium Donor
You do know that Helena isn't a "fast" character, right? Her jab is 11frames, and her mid is like 12? Most characters have 10-11 frame jabs and a very few have 9frames. Most fastest mids are 12-13 frames while a very few has 11 and 14. Gen Fu has a 10 frame jab, 11 frame mid, guaranteeds off of guard breaks on block, sit down stuns, a crazy blender, and a 3p that ruins lives. I think that pretty much covers it. Curious question, do you study frame data?
 
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Tenryuga

Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
TaijiMonk said:
They wreck my gen fu.
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I'll explain to you why this should not be happening.

1.You have a 10i jab an 11i mid and the speed of your low doesn't matter because your low is garbage anyway. Anything you could use your low for you could use 3P for and get better results. This means you should have no issues scoring counter hits on said characters because YOU DO NOT HAVE A SPEED DEFICIT.

2.You have a parry that guarantees followups. Don't even bother parrying the highs use 3P to crush the highs.

3.You have a 12i super launcher throw that does massive damage or MODERATE NOT EVEN LOW damage if you go for the reset situation.

4.You have a 12i grab that does close to 1/5 damage and grants +10.

5.Your 3P forces a must hold situation in which THE OPPONENT TAKES 100+ FOR NOT HOLDING IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEY GET HIT OR TAKE 80+ DEALING WITH A RESET FROM HCH 236T.

6. YOUR CHARACTER DOES NOT KNOW WHAT DISADVANTAGE IS. "Oh shit I'm at disadvantage? Better 3P or parry my way outta this and score some big damage while I'm at it."

7. 73 moves doesn't mean anything when just like 10 of your moves is better than the entire toolset of some of the lower tier characters. Legit all you need with Gen Fu is 6P, 66P, 3P, K, 214T, 236T, parry, whatever his hop in is, 3K and your launchers.

Your characters only has the following flaws:

1. Mix-up is balls in neutral because his lows are garbage as well as his string mix-ups. He only has like 2 lol PPP / PP2K or 3KPP / 3KP6P I believe it is? This isn't even all that big a deal because you get caught by 1 grab that's enough to open you up to his delays and mids.

2. His range game is garbage. He has issues getting in as well though its not super terrible for him because he has his 214P(?) hop in.

So you have super powerful strengths and flaws that aren't even glaring. This makes him top tier.
 
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TaijiMonk

TaijiMonk

Member
Sigh. I'm not asking him to reveal his...er..."secrets" or anything. How in the world did you get that from my posts? I just want to know why he thinks he is the best character (if he actually thinks that, he never said).

Do I study frame data? Yes. Have I went through and memorized all frames for all characters? Definately not, i'm not quite that hardcore...yet. Probably never. And to be clear I didn't mean helena was fast, but elusive. I lumped the faster and/or elusive characters I have a hard time with together (christie, ayane, kasumi, helena, etc)
 
Prince Adon

Prince Adon

Best in the World!!!
Premium Donor
TaijiMonk said:
Sigh. I'm not asking him to reveal his...er..."secrets" or anything. How in the world did you get that from my posts? I just want to know why he thinks he is the best character (if he actually thinks that, he never said).

Do I study frame data? Yes. Have I went through and memorized all frames for all characters? Definately not, i'm not quite that hardcore...yet. Probably never. And to be clear I didn't mean helena was fast, but elusive. I lumped the faster and/or elusive characters I have a hard time with together (christie, ayane, kasumi, helena, etc)
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And guess what? Gen Fu doesn't lose in match up with any of those characters. Infact, Gen Fu doesn't lose to anyone in match up.
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
You didn't mention anything in your OP defining why genfu isn't any good lol. So allow me to explain why genfu is solid and top tier in Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate.

He has great speed, i10/i11/i15. That's a 10 frame jab, 11 frame mid (11 frame mids are the fastest mid strikes in the game), and a 15 frame low jab that's +0 on neutral hit. He has an 11 frame neutral high K that is a great tool to combat characters with punch parries, sabakis and advanced punch holds that would normally hurt him.

He has one of the best crushes in the game, that is essentially both a high and mid crush, that strike is his 3P. 3P is a 15 frame mid punch and high/mid crush strike that is deadly up close. On counter hit, he is rewarded access into the critical stun threshold from 3P alone. Once this hits, opponents are forced into a lose-lose situation I like to call a "must hold situation". 3P forces this because of 3PP (the follow up to 3P), you are thrown into a true 50/50 mix up guessing to hold the follow up, being hit by something else, or thrown.

3PP also puts opponents into an unavoidable sitdown stun situation when followed up by 33P, granting genfu 70-80+ damage on average.

If genfu chooses to throw you, you are being thrown by either 214T or 236T. 214T deals about 45 damage on its own, grants him +10 frame advantage and forces you into a vortex. 236T he will throw you into the air, deal at least 69 damage, catch you, follow up with a guaranteed unblockable and unholdable neutral K strike and maintain +4 frame advantage.

Both his high and mid parries grant him many unblockable and unholdable strikes into critical stun threshold, guaranteeing him 50/50 mix ups. 8PP, 4P6P, 6K are just a few. His 4P+K causes a feint stun on counter hit and in critical stun, guaranteeing him follow up strike mix ups and a crumple stun launcher (64P).

This is just a very small introduction of basic genfu and what makes him so strong in this game. I don't think I need to explain his entirety for someone to understand why he's so strong.
 
TaijiMonk

TaijiMonk

Member
Tenryuga, thank you for your lengthy reply. I appreciate all of that.

One thing about the 3p though, is it does get interrupted frequently against characters with faster mids. His 1p attack that goes low I prefer to use to crush against high stuff instead of 3p all the time.

Guarantees off parries? I'll have to look at that again then, cause I don't remember any last time I analyzed that in training
 
Tenryuga

Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
TaijiMonk said:
One thing about the 3p though, is it does get interrupted frequently against characters with faster mids. His 1p attack that goes low I prefer to use to crush against high stuff instead of 3p all the time.
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This is why your parry exists. It stops their mids so that they go high. When they start going high you 3P.
 
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