What would you change about DOA?

[OSTCarmine]

Okay... last part of my rant and this one is gonna be a bit calmer. What truly irks me about the depth of these characters as actual people is that they dont HAVE to be so bland. Each character has quite a unique backstory, and there are enough relationships to make for interesting characters. So there is really no excuse for the way they get presented in DOA. As i mentioned before i think Ayane should be a much more assertive person, just looking at her past. She should also have a very definite, almost crippling insecurity when it comes to trusting others. She shows traces of this, especially in her relationship with Hayabusa being all business. But the thing with Hayate messes her up big time. And her Kasumi rivalry is utterly pointless at this point. She will ALWAYS feel the need to prove herself, due to her childhood. This is not very good for emotional growth but it is the perfect motivator. The end result of this could be very satisfying to her, or feel shallow and wasted. See how much feeling the game could convey, and this is just for one character.

now, admittedly, fighter games are not known for deep and engaging storylines or characters, and there are CERTAINLY worse characters in a great number of fighter games. What im saying is DOA has enough character history built up to do something interesting with, and I wish they would. If I could make any changes to DOA I would redefine each character completely, and make good coherent sense of their personalities. I would shape good characters to go with a good game. that is all

 

[Yaguar]

rant continued!
...l

Think that is bad? Every fighting master on the planet is invited to DOA... Who do they get as the elite MMA fighter? Mila. Well she must be something special... some super rich famous MMA fighter? NOPE! Works in a damn restaurant, some kid working her way up.

Any explanation to this? Nope. Just "Oh MMA fighter?" [Insert child like excitement in meeting Bass' daughter].
Still, decent character to play.

 

[OSTCarmine]

Think that is bad? Every fighting master on the planet is invited to DOA... Who do they get as the elite MMA fighter? Mila. Well she must be something special... some super rich famous MMA fighter? NOPE! Works in a damn restaurant, some kid working her way up.

Any explanation to this? Nope. Just "Oh MMA fighter?" [Insert child like excitement in meeting Bass' daughter].
Still, decent character to play.

lol, I actually always worked off the assumption that the tourney roster is decided by pre-lims, and that the fighters themselves may not be well known or famous, but just really good fighters who entered and qualified. Mila joining, in this sense, does not confuse me at all. Imagine if there were actually a bunch of MMA entrants, and they all fell into Hayabusa's bracket lol... see how it works out?

 

[shinryu]

So, two things I think might be interesting:

1) It'd be interesting to see a rebalance ala VF5FS where everyone gets a standard speed jab/mid punch, or alternatively keep the jab differences but give everyone at least a standard 12 frame mid and no faster, say. Right now the slower characters are basically boned in close against most of the rest of the cast as they can't do anything that beats either their high or their mid. If you had a chance for everyone's p to beat a mid and the option to duck a high then I think the in-close game becomes much more interesting.

2) Alter holds from stun to operate more like holds from DOA1 or parries; it resets you out of the stun and maybe gives you some minor frame advantage, but no real damage/knockdown. I'd let advanced holds stay as they are out of stun, though, and from neutral holds would operate the same way as they currently do. This keeps certain characters scary on defense even in stun but you have to be on top of your game to capitalize. Meanwhile, everybody can at least break a combo but they don't really get damage or huge advantage from it, and everybody can still punish predictable moves from neutral with their holds. DOA5 is a little like this but I'd take the idea further.

 

[Raansu]

Also, i'd make it so you could counter out of any situation, but to balance it, make it 6 point counters.

DOA5 has more of those "Oh well terrific, I don't get to play because my character is stunlocked and theres nothing I can do about it", which, previously, was a big reason I played DOA, because it had very little of that. Its mainly what people go for, and its sucking the fun out ofit. Because believe it or not, not getting to play isn't very fun.

Then stop letting them do it. It's your own damn fault you got put into that situation to begin with.

 

[GLoRToR]

I would like to point one thing out at this point.
Console games, by nature, are meant to be made with a sell-once-make-profit-and-then-forget sort of attitude. If you look at the recent fighting games, just the past two years, you'll see what I mean. Lackluster story mode (SC5), cutting support even if there are a million game breaking issues (MK9), and I could go on about the flaws of the games released in a rush to look nice and shiny upfront and then we found the worm in the apple with all of them.

It's the attitude behind the merchandise that requires a massive revision, starting with the console companies' prehistoric policies that they charge the development team after a certain amount of patches. Consoles need to take a more modern direction or the industry will collapse in what I'd estimate as ten years or less.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Then stop letting them do it. It's your own damn fault you got put into that situation to begin with.

Annd....whats your excuse for when its not? Or when they don't manage to land it, but spend all match trying to?

That still leaves the issue of it being possible, and so alot of people trying to do nothing but that. And by your logic, the only way around it is to perfect everyone in every round of every match? Seriously? Where's the fun in that?

 

[OldsmoBuick]

I would definitely address the dummy in training mode. They should make the dummy able to be struck, and then, block any attack that is not a natural combo, as an action -- instead of using both action and reaction to accomplish this feat. I also think, being able to go into the dummy's moves list and selecting the one(s) that I want dummy to do -- as an action and or as a reaction -- would be awesome. Team Ninja has done some great things with my beloved franchise. Now is the time to bring it on home. The time to strike is nigh. (LoL)

 

[Raansu]

Annd....whats your excuse for when its not? Or when they don't manage to land it, but spend all match trying to?

That still leaves the issue of it being possible, and so alot of people trying to do nothing but that. And by your logic, the only way around it is to perfect everyone in every round of every match? Seriously? Where's the fun in that?

There is no excuse. If you got caught in a setup its your fault, end of story. The only issue here is you want a game that is 100% random, for which I say, go play DoA4.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I don't think fighting games are for you. At least not real fighting games. Maybe you should go stick with wrestling and MMA games.

 

[Stikku]

There is no excuse. If you got caught in a setup its your fault, end of story. The only issue here is you want a game that is 100% random, for which I say, go play DoA4.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I don't think fighting games are for you. At least not real fighting games. Maybe you should go stick with wrestling and MMA games.

You're insufferable.

 

[SilverKhaos]

There is no excuse. If you got caught in a setup its your fault, end of story. The only issue here is you want a game that is 100% random, for which I say, go play DoA4.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I don't think fighting games are for you. At least not real fighting games. Maybe you should go stick with wrestling and MMA games.

Beyond your usual nack for completely missing the point, I find it especially hilarious that you say "real fighting games" aren't for me, then suggest I instead....go play the only REAL FIGHTING games out there lol.

 

[Awesmic]

Assertiveness is a virtue...

And that's all I gotta say about that.

 

[Prince Adon]

Beyond your usual nack for completely missing the point, I find it especially hilarious that you say "real fighting games" aren't for me, then suggest I instead....go play the only REAL FIGHTING games out there lol.

You definitely took that out of context.

 

[Sixmsj]

The only change Team Ninja needs to make is remove that Rap Song from my head. That song should not have been in ranked match, but maybe settings or something .....

 

[d3v]

Annd....whats your excuse for when its not? Or when they don't manage to land it, but spend all match trying to?

That still leaves the issue of it being possible, and so alot of people trying to do nothing but that. And by your logic, the only way around it is to perfect everyone in every round of every match? Seriously? Where's the fun in that?

Because people who do badly (i.e. get hit) should be rewarded right?

It's all about positive/negative feedback. If you're getting beat because people keep comboing you, it's a sign that you need to get better at the game. Fighting games reward those who take time to practice and learn the game. If someone takes to the to learn how to maximize their damage of a hit confirm, then they should be rewarded for it. Going the opposite (as what DOA 4 did where holds were often the best option in the game) is just plain ass backwards. It's good old old-school (arcade) video-game design philosophy at work - only the skilled are rewarded. If you're getting your ass beat, then you might consider playing against someone closer to your own skill level.

 

[Rubedood]

Make it like the E3 build so you get CB in three hits and make unholdable stuns inescapable

 

[CrimsonCJ]

I'd love a Dead or Alive game with one major change: You can only knock people down or back, UP. or at the very least, forward attacks don't make you pop up, only launchers.

A DOA game with more realistic physics would be, to me, the ultimate fighting game. No true juggles, jumping dodges low attacks, ducking dodges high attacks, and attacks only connect if they actually make contact with the opponent.

DOA has the right idea with the triangle system, but the physics are what is holding it back. Its still doing the "poke someone in the toe and they bounce 6 feet in the air" stuff that keeps it from becoming something better. I stand by the believe that only heavy/strong attacks should send someone flying through the air, and if you hit someone, they should get knocked in the direction you hit them, not in a perpendicular direction.

Also, if i'm lying on the ground, head towards the opponent, a light tap should not make my body invert like a T2 so my head is suddenly on the other end.

Its all the little errors in physics that irritate me.

I think this is basically right. Look, I don't want totally realistic physics in a fighting game; it would probably lead to some cumbersome and unimaginative stuff in character design. ("Well, s/he clearly doesn't have enough muscular strength to make that palm attack do any damage, so...") But I do think that juggles are essentially a bad development habit and a gaming franchise that got rid of them would be radical for the best. I don't think DOA will be the game to do it, but it is arguably the closest.

If you're going to take out juggles, then you're going to have to add in a replacement mechanic for extending combos. Juggles exist because players discovered that you could do them in earlier fighting games and started using them for more damage. The developers generally acknowledge that players like being rewarded for good play (i.e. getting in your opponents defense) by the ability to continue doing damage.

Meanwhile, the timer actually is important in dictating the pace of the game. Without the timer, a losing player can just keep running away to frustrate the other player into making a mistake. With a timer, the losing player is forced to go in and try to gain a life lead. This works out better simply because in this situation, it's the winning player that's being rewarded whereas if you take it out, you actually indirectly reward the losing player.​

Definitely right about the timer (infinite matches lead to really boring play), not sure we don't basically have the tools and then some to reward striking that doesn't lead to a juggle. I mean, if you hit someone, you have essentially a significant advantage on your next attack. And that's really reward enough; rewarding good play should not mean rewarding excess mechanical memory.

And, I mean, look, I play the game. I'm hardly a fantastic juggler myself, but better than your average online person, and many times they've been able to play better strategic games than I have but I've won with my low-tier character due to rote memory. Heck, I've won games like that while reading news on my cell phone. That's just wrong.

 

[OSTCarmine]

And, I mean, look, I play the game. I'm hardly a fantastic juggler myself, but better than your average online person, and many times they've been able to play better strategic games than I have but I've won with my low-tier character due to rote memory. Heck, I've won games like that while reading news on my cell phone. That's just wrong.

reads news on cellphone while kickin ass in DOA, god amongst men be ye.

 

[CrimsonCJ]

reads news on cellphone while kickin ass in DOA, god amongst men be ye.

Just really ADHD in moments, not actually good at this game, LOL.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Because people who do badly (i.e. get hit) should be rewarded right?

It's all about positive/negative feedback. If you're getting beat because people keep comboing you, it's a sign that you need to get better at the game. Fighting games reward those who take time to practice and learn the game. If someone takes to the to learn how to maximize their damage of a hit confirm, then they should be rewarded for it. Going the opposite (as what DOA 4 did where holds were often the best option in the game) is just plain ass backwards. It's good old old-school (arcade) video-game design philosophy at work - only the skilled are rewarded. If you're getting your ass beat, then you might consider playing against someone closer to your own skill level.

Okay, here is the issue.

I mentioned I did not like something.

The main response I keep getting is "well stop losing to it/learn to overcome it".

Not once did I ever say I had trouble getting around it or overcoming it. By the very nature of what i'm griping about, its going to happen if I EVER get hit. And when I get good enough to start perfecting people, I stop playing, because its not fun anymore.

Now. More on topic.

You said "Fighting games reward those who take time to practice and learn the game". Which should be true, to an EXTENT. But that should not be ALL that it rewards. The game should also reward those who are good at FIGHTING. Hence why when holds are the best option, it makes for a better fighter, because its a struggle the entire time (as fights are wont to be). No training wheels holding your hand bs by holding the opponent down/up for you to wail on. You gotta outmaneuver your opponent and work for your damage, and I LOVE that, because THATS A FIGHT. There's no tension, or challenge with juggles. Its just free and easy damage. That should not even be a THING in fighting games.

So to clarify. Being good at juggles/comboing does not mean you are good at fighting, and its the LATTER skill that should be rewarded over the former, at least in fighting games.

I know people don't like me saying this, but its true. Being good at combos/juggles simply means you are good at quick time events, as thats EXACTLY what they are.

Now, if you could counter out of any juggle/combo, I wouldn't care, because then the focus would be back on actual fighting skill, not just memorizing combos. But its the fact that you CAN'T, that takes the fight out of fighting games. Which is sadly, how many in the FGC prefer it, apparently.

Maximizing your damage should mean "Punish with the strongest possible attack", not "Get to do 10-30 attacks in a row without possibility of retaliation." You should get ONE free hit as a punisher, then thats it, back to working for your damage. because fighting games are supposed to be about fighting each other, not just "who can land their long combo first". Its borderline turn-based when you fight people who rely exclusively on juggles.

Now, the key difference here, is that my views apply mainly to those who enjoy fighting. To those only concerned with getting a win, however, not so much.

Apologies that this post rambles on, I didn't sleep last night.