Lulu
Well-Known Member
It doesn't have to be every move in a match but I must be able to execute every single one.
The more you can do the more options you have.
The official Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown thread
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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It doesn't have to be every move in a match but I must be able to execute every single one.
The more you can do the more options you have.
The more options you have, the less influx for barrier point to also make a strain to the player. Games execution point should not always be a consideration whether it should be hard or not because there must also be things that should be hard on the player and not the game. If it's easy, then it's easy. If it's hard, then it's hard. Always been that way and will likely stay that way for a very very long time.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
And you think thats a good thing ?
in the meantime i wish we could get the current arcade version.
Neutral, but going by process of elimination...Yes, why would it not be. I am picking the side of having character diversity and making them different than other characters. Lowering everything is just catering and demand. It's developer theory and basis as to why they make certain characters harder than others. Is it a good thing on making hard characters? probably not, depends if unplayable. Is it a bad thing on hard characters? definitely not either.
Regarding Execution, people seem to forget that we as human beings, can adapt to this and actually pick the character up. The issue is actually sitting down and do it. Cavemen survived hazard conditions and games is minor compared to that. If it's hard.....so? you can do it too. You could laugh at the developers because you learned a difficult character, but the people (Actually, can't say entirely people because this is very small and most communities just do not care if it's hard.) chose the route to complain as to why it's hard. It may even lead to the assumption to tempt them to making more. (Not a valid thing they would do and I see no reason behind it, but I see no reason as to why human beings decided to not sit down and muscle memory the buttons.)
Regardless, any game mechanic, character execution and music changes are within a category of things that will not likely change by people unless the devs deemed it so as important.
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Lulu
Well-Known Member
Wait wait wait.... so in your head you think making some characters harder than others increases diversity ?
You seem to forget that some species of human beings became extinct because they couldn't adapt.... however I don't really want to debate darwinism right now..... theres a big difference between a human being adapting to survive and a human being adapting to a game.
And even then Physical Execution is not something any gamer should have to adapt to.... mostly because they can't. People can adapt to complexities that are more intellectual like Combos and complex inputs as long they don't need to be inputed in less than in a half a second..... but if theres one thing the majority of games are never going to adapt to its moving their thumbs faster than they are physically capable of. Thats just inconsiderate on the part of the developer.
But no seriously I don't know if I understood you right but it does genuinely seem like you believe making characters harder increases diversity.....
Yes, it does. Making them all play the same with the same execution and buttons provides nothing but illogical reasoning for overshadowing cast characters.
Character A has a i17 mid that does 30+ points of damage raw hit. Single hit. Unsafe. No hard input whatsover. 3.00m
Character Z has a i17 mid that does 90+ points of damage raw hit. Single hit. Unsafe. Harder input however. 3.00m
So now create the scenario here and the position to say "Oh well, make the button for character A the same as character Z." No because that can lead to a general go-tool for characters to continuously use it and bypassing certain standards for logical thinking and behavior to getting away with things, we do not want the game easier than it has to be. "Well then nerf the damage to the same as the other then so that the button can be easier." No because you are eliminating a function to a character's damage potential. By nerfing that, they are likely buffing the other tools and may lead to the character getting buffed in a certain approach on areas he/she didn't need a buff. But because you want the damage to be nerfed or easier execution approach, you are likely to make the character generally quicker and easier to get frame advantage off that would not be deemed possible. Thumb rule for fighters, changing something there can have a negative/positive drawback.
This is where things get complicated. Whether you choose to believe it or not, execution plays a factor to a solid state there. Few individuals are becoming a rock with a inscription that says "Well it should not be." -- Now look behind the rock. "You have no choice and it's the most logical for now."
Character A has a i17 mid that does 30+ points of damage raw hit. Single hit. Unsafe. No hard input whatsover. 3.00m
Character Z has a i17 mid that does 90+ points of damage raw hit. Single hit. Unsafe. Harder input however. 3.00m
So now create the scenario here and the position to say "Oh well, make the button for character A the same as character Z." No because that can lead to a general go-tool for characters to continuously use it and bypassing certain standards for logical thinking and behavior to getting away with things, we do not want the game easier than it has to be. "Well then nerf the damage to the same as the other then so that the button can be easier." No because you are eliminating a function to a character's damage potential. By nerfing that, they are likely buffing the other tools and may lead to the character getting buffed in a certain approach on areas he/she didn't need a buff. But because you want the damage to be nerfed or easier execution approach, you are likely to make the character generally quicker and easier to get frame advantage off that would not be deemed possible. Thumb rule for fighters, changing something there can have a negative/positive drawback.
This is where things get complicated. Whether you choose to believe it or not, execution plays a factor to a solid state there. Few individuals are becoming a rock with a inscription that says "Well it should not be." -- Now look behind the rock. "You have no choice and it's the most logical for now."
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I definitely wouldn't like it if all of the characters had the same exact inputs. That's just stupid.
Woof, woof.
Rubedood
Well-Known Member
There aren't any balance changes in version B. All it did was discontinue VF.TV, otherwise it's the same as console.
No doubt Shenmue will sell, because the Kickstarter reached its goal the same day it was announced no? But the demand for VF6 is still there, as there are people who do still play and stream VF5FS. It's only nature to want the next game in the series. Vanilla VF5 came out 9 years ago on arcades this month.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
If a move is a fast, safe and does alot of damage then changing the input isn't going to do didly squat..... you can put an execution wall as big as china behind if you thinj thats going to stop people from abusing it. Go see how well that worked for Street Fighter IV when they changed the the mechanic for cancelling normals into specials.
And In case you didn't notice:
Theres your diversity right there.... a character with Different Moves. The parts not in bold add nothing to the game. Although I can see why a developer might want to give them different inputs: because the example you just gave is a prime example developer laziness..... its completely devoid of any nuance that would make it interesting.... all you did was point out one move is better than another.... THATS NOT DIVERSITY. Thats the type of thing that leads to characters like SF2's Akuma.
Lets use DoA to come up with an Example of Real Diversity:
Jacky and Jan Lee and both practice Jeet Kune Do.... Jacky has a i12 Mid and Jan Lee has an i11 mid. Jan Lee's is better right ? Not exactly. It turns out Jacky's mid has better range than Jan Lee's mid. The nuance here is the Distance, it makes this one attack for both characters both diverse and interesting than simply having one move completely being better than the other and justifying it via execution. Like you just did: I don't even think you would play that type of game. Because thats not even diverse.... its the same move except one is clearly better than the other.... its going to be people's go to strategy regardless of the input. How can you not see that ?
If you want different characters to play differently then.... and this is painfully obvious..... give them different moves.
Akira is never going to play like Goh or any other Virtua Fighter character no matter what you change his inputs to.... not matter how easy you make them. This is because he is a different character with different moves. That AND ONLY THAT is what makes him play differently.
So yeah guys, it's almost VF5's 10th anniversary...woof lol
See now that's the thing, VF in general is not a popular game as a whole because the series just doesn't draw in the appeal out there (Before it did, but now not so much due to companies stepping up in the graphics department and more team members in the genre.) Game doesn't have a proper story mode, barely any American commericals, graphics with an outdated engine. VF stays alive because the community is out there trying to support it by tournaments, streaming it, local JPN arcades (Big one), retweets to SEGA etc. However, this alone is not the huge issue but rather SEGA's issue on money problems. Issues with the Dreamcast in the past and the switch to mobile gaming (Not a hard switch but rather a focus to it. It does not mean they will only make mobile games. They will still make console games.) Shenmue III's kickstarter made more than the goal and likely part of that money will be used for bonuses on Shenmue III.
If anything, they can even provide the thanks with a likely attempt to provide a demo digital code for a VF6 in Shenmue's III purchase. (The chances of this happening is slim since it's not even confirmed if they been started working on VF6.)
If a move is a fast, safe and does alot of damage then changing the input isn't going to do didly squat." - Yes it does. You are forcing players to react to certain moves that potentially can do more damage than a natural combo. You are having players have easy access to make their life easier. None of that easy crap will ever be in there, thank god.
"you can put an execution wall as big as china behind if you thinj thats going to stop people from abusing it." - They can and they will. If it helps them to win, they will use it without question because now the attempt is easier and the brain does not process to always avoid it.
"Go see how well that worked for Street Fighter IV when they changed the the mechanic for cancelling normals into specials." - And then they added other logical ideas to it so that things do not get easy.
^Loool! Just read the rest and I forgot I am dealing with an individual who clearly believes he has an understanding to the meta and process for how a game should work.
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Okay
Kronin
Well-Known Member
Okay
I wanted use the bold only for the "Edit" word, but my phone's touch has problems and I renounced.
Sure, I don't see why not.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Sigh....