DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

[J.D.E.]

For most cases, Eliot can still win his matches with his defensive options. Just when you look at other characters & then compare him to them, it's that big interpretation that leads to him being labeled "bad". He still has things that you have to respect like his parries, reset throw, a vortex, & his day long strings. The problem is that when you have characters with lows that are 12 & 13f's with 2P's, & mids faster 14f's, then he'll get frustrated. He can be rushed down with 9P being the thing that gives him breathing room at the most. I remember when he had this move that created momentum in vanilla, but it's not like that now. Still, I'm not sure how his numbers are across the boards, but I know a few Eliot players thought of him having 3-7's not sure how I feel about that. I always thought of him having mostly 5-5's, with some 4-6's & a few 6-4's.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Who does he have advantage against, though? Ein?

EDIT: I don't think Eliot is bad, by the way. He's just one of the worst. I wouldn't put him at the very bottom, though. I think Tina belongs there. No one agrees though. :v

Honestly, our list is pretty fucking inaccurate 'cause no one fills in matchup numbers. Like who actually thinks Tina's on the same tier as Akira?

 

[J.D.E.]

Even Ein can rush him down. I was paraphrasing when I said that "I expect him to have a few 6-4s". I have limited knowledge of him as a whole in terms of how he could be played. I only know of his important tools that usually serves him justice in battle & where he struggles.

 

[UncleBiscuits79]

Even Ein can rush him down. I was paraphrasing when I said that "I expect him to have a few 6-4s". I have limited knowledge of him as a whole in terms of how he could be played. I only know of his important tools that usually serves him justice in battle & where he struggles.

An there in lies the problem I am seeing. Not you in particular, but I wonder if people who actually are good with eliot are giving advice on his matchups. I still can't believe that characters like Bass can have an avantage over Eliot for example, and that eliot even has 3-7 matchups against some characters.

 

[Bushido]

I think we should discuss whether or not 7-3 match-ups could exist in this system again, because it's still not clear whether they are or not. :T Some say yes and some say no; however, we need a consensus...

 

[Force_of_Nature]

In my experience some matches definitely feel like their treading 7-3 territory especially when Christie is involved.

By and large, most matches are either 6-4 or 5-5 though.

 

[Brute]

I think we should discuss whether or not 7-3 match-ups could exist in this system again, because it's still not clear whether they are or not. :T Some say yes and some say no; however, we need a consensus...

You won't get one.

Everyone who plays low tier characters will claim there are 7-3s and everyone who plays high tiers will claim there isn't.

Simple as that.

 

[StrikerSashi]

An there in lies the problem I am seeing. Not you in particular, but I wonder if people who actually are good with eliot are giving advice on his matchups. I still can't believe that characters like Bass can have an avantage over Eliot for example, and that eliot even has 3-7 matchups against some characters.

Bass does a ton more damage over Eliot. Same speed mid. Bass has faster throws. Eliot has parries and faster high and low strikes. Same basic gameplan (get frame advantage and keep frame advantage) up close.

Here's the thing, though. Bass has waaaaay better throw punishment. Eliot's throws are good on offense, but Bass's are amazing on defense. Stuff that normally is safe becomes unsafe 'cause Bass's neutral (even though it's escapable) and punish throw are so fast. 6T means Eliot has to be really careful with what he does. One good read from Bass means you enter his mixups and those are just as strong as Eliot's mixups but do more damage. Bass's heavy damage throws means that one bad parry or hold from Eliot and he loses half his health so Eliot can't rely on his parries as often as he usually would.

Eliot's punish throw is slower and a breakable two part throw. Remember than these characters excel at being at frame advantage and are garbage at everything else. Bass's reset throw is so much better as a punish throw. For damaging hold punishes, Eliot would use 236T, but Bass is a super heavyweight so he can't do his usual combo and have to settle for weak juggles.

Eliot is super lightweight. Bass is super heavyweight. Bass can do so much more damage to Eliot than Eliot can do to Bass. They have similar speeds and gameplan. You can argue that Eliot is slightly better at range (even though it's all sidesteppable and reactable).

It's 5-5 for Bass at worst. Please, any Bass players comment on this, 'cause I think Bass is getting slept on.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Please, any Bass players comment on this, 'cause I think Bass is getting slept on.

I think a good chunk of 5U's roster is slept on. I'm looking over Lisa now and seeing quite a bit of potential in her. I also know firsthand how dangerous Bass can be. Even to Ayane and Kasumi. His 6T is not to be fucked with.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Please, any Bass players comment on this, 'cause I think Bass is getting slept on.

Nah, you covered it.

Well, maybe a mention on his 6P tracking mid or 3K at mid range, both "safe" on guard with huge string delay with options that lead to completely safe results. Then, he also has guaranteed combos after landing one or two hits in a string, and can reliably stun > launch for 'nice' damage but also play the stun game for 'nicer' damage.

I mean the only thing I personally fear from Eliot is his 7P, but even then I'm like "Okay, fine, push me away to my mid range. You're just putting me in the range I want to be in..."

 

[UncleKitchener]

You realize why the Bass-Elliot MU is 6-4 when you spend a couple hours in practice comparing their tools and the damage they can dish and realize how Elliot gets dasicued around. 5-5 at best.

Couple of matches against a few Elliot players should solidify that. Not many around these parts anymore even though they used to play him in 5 Vanilla, but they don't main him anymore.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Honestly, I'd even venture as far as Bass v Eliot being close to 7-3 due to the increased punishment chance during his sabakis and parries. He's basically forced to rely on them and string delays, which gives him the 3 matches but I see more punishment opportunities with Bass if he reads a sabaki or parry coming.

Still think on the average it'd be 6-4, but 7-3 is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[UncleKitchener]

What can he really do when he's in the 6H+P mixup?

 

[Brute]

Eliot doesn't have any favorable match-ups. His best ones are even and it only goes downhill from there.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

What can he really do when he's in the 6H+P mixup?

what can anyone do in a 6H+P mixup?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Well, characters with strong single hit moves make it a bit less intimidating, 'cause a correct read on a throw attempt means you lose a ton of health. Like Gen Fu 16P when Bass tries to throw after 6T means attempting to throw is actually really scary for Bass.

 

[Jyakotu]

Eliot doesn't have any favorable match-ups. His best ones are even and it only goes downhill from there.

Unless he's in my hands. Then the match-ups are always in my favor.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Well, characters with strong single hit moves make it a bit less intimidating, 'cause a correct read on a throw attempt means you lose a ton of health. Like Gen Fu 16P when Bass tries to throw after 6T means attempting to throw is actually really scary for Bass.

Actually thats not totally true, cause a better answer would be a hi counter launcher and every character can use this as an answer to his mix up

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Actually thats not totally true, cause a better answer would be a hi counter launcher and every character can use this as an answer to his mix up

GenFu's 16P pretty much does the damage of a full combo on Close Hit + Hi Counter Hit.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Yeah, a launcher is usually more damage, but I don't think it's as scary to people as a big single hit. I notice people usually try for throw resets less when I do a single big hit. Your own mileage may vary. :v