The lack-of-stagger-escape glitch poll
- Thread starter Rikuto
- Start date
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Even with the lack of stagger escape attempting big combos is not low risk, you're still throwing out attacks that can be blocked, sidestepped and punished. If you get your hit in you may not get a counter hit, you may be counter held, you may be counter held when you extend the stun (even if it would then become unholdable, you might not get that far)
You might not have a wall or ceiling near you to extend the combo, or there is one at the wrong part of the combo and its dropped. The opponent might be good at positioning to force down your options.
Your opponent might have already done something to you.
Seriously those aren't enough variables in not guaranteeing "big combos"?
You might not have a wall or ceiling near you to extend the combo, or there is one at the wrong part of the combo and its dropped. The opponent might be good at positioning to force down your options.
Your opponent might have already done something to you.
Seriously those aren't enough variables in not guaranteeing "big combos"?
Stop making sense Berzerk.
I don't believe that the issue is really stagger escape, or lack there of. I think it's the lack of guaranteed damage as a whole... aka Critical Hold!. When an opponent critical holds (which they can do at pretty much anytime they like)... not only does it screw up your combo, but if they whiff they can just do it again... So I vote no. TN should fix the glitch, and fix critical hold so that if an opponent critical holds and gets it wrong then there is your guaranteed damage!... or something ti that effect 
DR2K
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that the issue is really stagger escape, or lack there of. I think it's the lack of guaranteed damage as a whole... aka Critical Hold!. When an opponent critical holds (which they can do at pretty much anytime they like)... not only does it screw up your combo, but if they whiff they can just do it again... So I vote no. TN should fix the glitch, and fix critical hold so that if an opponent critical holds and gets it wrong then there is your guaranteed damage!... or something ti that effect
This fix will not hurt top tier characters who already have guaranteed stuns, it will hurt characters who do not have these options anymore. This is a nerf that hurts mid and below more. Holds need to be nerfed period.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
It's been suggested to them to ensure that when an opponent misses a counter hold and is hit before the end of recovery, they should be considered in the second stage of counter hit stun - so skipping forward 1 step in the stun game.
This would be a great improvement to the stun system by adding scaled punishment to holds.
However, you still need to make unholdable stuns viable or there is no point to having them. You have to know exactly what you can follow up with so both the attacker and defender know what setups to go for, and look to avoid. That's REAL mindgames.
So thats why sit down stuns, which are unholdable, must also be Non stagger escapable, because on succeeding in making that hit, the mindgame is won and there must be a reward.
Hopefully TN understands that and through seeing the poll that players want this as it makes the game more solid
This would be a great improvement to the stun system by adding scaled punishment to holds.
However, you still need to make unholdable stuns viable or there is no point to having them. You have to know exactly what you can follow up with so both the attacker and defender know what setups to go for, and look to avoid. That's REAL mindgames.
So thats why sit down stuns, which are unholdable, must also be Non stagger escapable, because on succeeding in making that hit, the mindgame is won and there must be a reward.
Hopefully TN understands that and through seeing the poll that players want this as it makes the game more solid
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
looking back at these old DOA5 discussions is kinda funny
Every DOA starting from 4 has an excessive stun game. Bug arrives in 5, removes SE (good) while keeping the stun duration ＵＮ－ＦＵＣＫＩＮＧ－ＣＨＡＮＧＥＤ (baaad), and it gets 76% approval rate in a poll? lllmmmaaaooo post-DOA4 stun system has collectively rotten your brains
during this period everyone in the forum somehow convinced themselves that the only way to reduce hold guessing was to make stuns absurdly advantageous, unholdable and guaranteed, while the solution was to simply undo the poison introduced by DOA4 and returning to DOA2 where not everything had to be a damn stun loool (and the 1st hit of a stun counted towards the max stun threshold, and BT stuns were a real threat)
Every DOA starting from 4 has an excessive stun game. Bug arrives in 5, removes SE (good) while keeping the stun duration ＵＮ－ＦＵＣＫＩＮＧ－ＣＨＡＮＧＥＤ (baaad), and it gets 76% approval rate in a poll? lllmmmaaaooo post-DOA4 stun system has collectively rotten your brains
during this period everyone in the forum somehow convinced themselves that the only way to reduce hold guessing was to make stuns absurdly advantageous, unholdable and guaranteed, while the solution was to simply undo the poison introduced by DOA4 and returning to DOA2 where not everything had to be a damn stun loool (and the 1st hit of a stun counted towards the max stun threshold, and BT stuns were a real threat)
Getting stunned > being knocked to the floor and performing a WUK routine after every other move
Your "simple" solution isn't simple at all, yes it's what needs to be done, but it's an incredibly tedious and long process to change back all those move properties individually that the developers aren't willing to do - we weren't convinced this bug was better, we were just willing to settle.
面倒な作業は私を雇ってやってください。
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
The point was to make the initial hit during neutral more meaningful. DOA 4's issue was hold recovery times, and hold damage being out of control. It became a liability to actually stun anybody, and everything stunned. 5 mitigated this well, the glitch mitigated it even better.
However, unlike the theory crafting you can only do now in hindsight through nostalgia lenses, this poll was done at the time of the glitch being present. It was reflected in how people felt, actually playing the game, with all of those mechanics interacting with each other. You can't really argue with a collective echo of the past, if the majority of people actually felt it was superior gameplay.
Furthermore, 5 wasn't 4 and 4 wasn't 3, 2, or 1. They all have different mechanics interacting with each other. Long stun durations can be fine under the right circumstances. But in 4, it was simply a half assed downgrade to what came before it.
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
the thread subject was a lot about communication with the devs so they would have to do the work, but still I said returning to DOA2(U) and I fucking meant it, it's simple DOAO is still playable to this day no need for modding kek
neutral is neutral, having to play the stun game for 90% of the time ain't neutral lmao, it's mix, it's DEATH. I know you're gonna say "bbuuut it's the reward for winning neeutrallll" bro any stray hit generating a +999 frame advantage situation feels like shit, SHIIIT. "Everything stunned" is still real, 5 and 6 are gradual improvements, but the stink from 4 is still lingering
I'll speak in hindsight all I want, and with no nostalgia involved since I STILL play 2U and prefer 6 over 5 bieeeetch
Bots, you say?
Again, it's not "simple." There's no "undo" button that'll magically put all the stuns back the way they were. It needs to be done manually and the devs aren't willing to do it. We've asked constantly and the answer was always "it's too much work." We were willing to settle for this accident.
Do I want the old DOA++/2/3 stuns back? Yes, of course, that's why I keep playing the older games. That's why I'm offering to do it since no one currently on staff is. 面倒な作業は私を雇ってやってください。
And DOAO is a nightmare to setup and get running plus I hate DOA2U/O's tracking and bigger hitboxes.
2 > 2U