Kronin
Well-Known Member
Ahahah! Don't worry, in the end is enough to post direct links to the gifs for fixing the problem (like I've already done)
Tengu Players Unite !
- Thread starter Omega SYSP
- Start date
Ahahah! Don't worry, in the end is enough to post direct links to the gifs for fixing the problem (like I've already done)
Kronin
Well-Known Member
This is an article that I wrote for DOAW: nothing that a fan of Tengu doesn't know already, anyway I thought that could be interesting to share it also here:
Essay on Tengu
From some time there is an internal matter inside the vocal Dead or Alive community that unites and divides the fandom, the possiblity or less to include in the last episode of the series the character Tengu. Seeing the proportions that assumed the thing, seems only right to spend a few words on the subject.
The release of the fifth episode of Dead or Alive (hereafter DoA), even if bringing joy to everyone waiting for a sequel of the series absent from the home console scenes since 2005, at the same time was able to bring to light even a discontent between some fans: the discovery (actually happened since the first leaks) of the absence of Leon, Ein and Tengu, three characters introduced in DoA2 and always included in the following 2 numbered sequels and DoAimensions (with the only exception of Tengu absent in DoA3).
(Render of Tengu from Dead or Alive: Dimensions: his appeareance was redesigned compared to his look in the numbered titles of the series.)
Questioned on this matter in an interview appeared on an official Japanese guide to DoA5, Team NINJA officially stated that the lack of resources (from the time to the money) was the main reason for the absence of these characters from the game:; by the way the fans speculated that in the case of Ein and Leon just their gameplay could have been one of the elements at the basis of their inferior priority compared to the rest of the cast: Ein practice the Karate sharing much of his moveset with Hitomi, while Leon born like clone substitute of Bayman in DoA2 (originally the russian assassin wasn't included in the first versions of the game).
But if a problem of originality of the moveset could have been one of the factors determining the fate of these 2 characters (by the way just an apparent matter because it's enough to spend a little on the game for realizing like Ein need necessarily a different approach from Hitomi for being used in an effective way, while Leon is nowadays a completely different character from Bayman), this can't be the explanation for Tengu and his fighting style that has never seen similarities in other characters of the game. So who is Tengu? What could be the reasons for his disappearence from DoA5? And what think the fans about it?
The identity of Tengu
Like already said the character called Tengu is the boss of DoA2, identified in the game through the race of creatures to which he belongs (Tengu are legendary creatures from the Japanese folklore) even if his real name is Gohyakumine Bankotsu-bo. Despite the plot of the old titles wasn't really developed in-game, Bankotsubo ended to get a background that saw him as a 1500 year old individual, a criminal for having killed the leader of the Tengu, later breaking the rules of his race running away from his dimension (presumably because hunted) and entering in the world of the humans, contemptuous of them and with the intention to bring the chaos even between the mankind (the so called "Tengu disaster"). To all this we have to add two pages from the DoA2 manual depicting the fictional characteristics of the Tengu race according to the legends.
(Definitely, Tengu appear far from being "friendly"...)
DoA Dimensions even reebooted partially his story making the character indirectly more tied to the general plot: his background remain the same, but Tengu was able to reach the human world through the break of a mystical magnetic field in the Miyama stage (able to make separated the human dimension from the Tengu's one). Responsible of it was the combined effort of Kasumi Alpha and the Hajinmon leader Genra, apparently secretly allied with Donovan's DOATEC and plotting against the ninja.
How it's easily intuitable Tengu's personality is evil, arrogant and hostile, by the way he present also an "involountary" funny side in the movements or in the cadence of the voice (something evident overall in DoA4) that make him slighty unique from the rest of the boss of the series completely missing of a similar element.
(...by the way the character lends himself to humorous moments, like in this scene where Gen Fu express the wish to use his nose for healing his grandaughter)
Finally, his moveset in the game is called "Tengu-do", a fictional fighting style apparently practiced by the Tengu race in the universe of the series. It make use of elements from the Kabuki dance, involvement of magical powers, use of the flying made possible by the wings of Tengu, and exaggerated poses, everything able to give at the same time a feeling of strenght and irony (in agreement with the character's traits over mentioned).
(The "Tengu-Do" fighting style make use of overhuman skills like the ability to generate
tornado or to fly)
A not popular character
After this analysis of Tengu, the idea of him being exclused by the roster of DoA5 because not original seems to not have a proper basis, noticing like the character appear to be unique in all his aspects. A more logical reason could be instead the low popularity of the character, an idea that also the people of Team NINJA ended to get (considering like the same leader of the team Yosuke Hayashi in a circumstance expressed amazement for the request of the character, asking if really there was someone that used him).
To everyone knowing also very little DoA should appear evident like the girls of the game depicted with beauty, sex-appeal and their well-know chest algorithm, are very easily the characters more popular of the series. Definitely Tengu is not part of this category and his inhuman traits, that would have been able to make him more popular in a game famous for the "craziness" of the roster like Tekken, definitely didn't help him to shine in a such series. By the way it's also true that with few exceptions like the popular Ryu Hayabusa, the male characters of the roster haven't a real gap of popularity between them and under this matter all the males could be considered almost like a singular entity (and so a status that alone can't justify a such drop of popularity for Tengu).
(No further reasonings are necessary to realize like Tengu is definitely far from appearing a beauty like Kasumi)
Excluding the physical traits the reason for the unnpoularity could reside in the gameplay of the character, in the end the core of a fighting game and that so should be seen like the basis for the player's choice to use a character rather than another: an aspect where Tengu wasn't too much lucky and that could have easily penalized him.
Putting aside the fact that Tengu is an advanced character that definitely can't be used trying to play without a precise idea of his tools (that have to be used for the majority in a smart way for emphatizing the mind-game and tricking the opponent), the "casual" players weren't the only ones deterred to use a such character: In DoA2 (and in the Xbox remake of the game released in the year 2004 "DoA2: Ultimate") the presence of a series of frame advantages in his moveset made of Tengu a character not fair to be used in the hands of an expert player, reason that led to the ban of his use in many tournaments, so discouraging competitive people to learn a similar character unable to be used in official competitions.
Very likely trying to fix the question, Team NINJA reworked his gameplay in the DoA4 appearence, but this time the character ended to suffer of the opposite problem becoming the worst character of the game (with the same result to not be used by competitive players). Didn't help the fact that, despite the lack of effectiveness of the character, some events (like the ones organized by the World Cyber Games) continued to keep the old DoA2U rule that wanted Tengu banned from the tournaments. Finally, even the necessity to unlock him in DoA4 through a long and complex way that wanted the beating of the time attack mode with all the rest of the roster (thing that meant to fight everytime the boss Alpha-152 able to give not a few headhaches for its difficulty), gave the final blow to the will of the players to play with him.
(Tengu in DoA4 is the character with the tools less effective of the roster)
Of course this has never completey discouraged everyone to use the character, with some people even ending to master his DoA4 version (like the player "NOD Subway"): but with less people knowing the character/motivated to learn him/able to share his knowledge, of course the life of Tengu in DoA4 ended to be far from the most popular one.
The remake DoA Dimensions, being handled on the portable console Nintendo 3DS, didn't get a proper tournament scene, by the way the character of Tengu was ported directly from the DoA4 version, so not improved from a gameplay matter (on the opposite with some changes that ended to decrease even more his fighting skills).
The reactions from the fans
Like anticipated in the article's introduction, nowadays the fans appear to be divided about the treatment to reserve to Tengu: from a side there are people that have never forgotten the characters and the would wish to have the posibility to play again with him in the last game of the DoA series (seeing a character improved not only phyisically but also from a gamepoint view); but from the other there are of course fans that don't feel love for the character neither have interest in his return.
On the web started various debates about the reasons because Tengu should be or less part of the roster (and in themeselves the discussions are always a positive thing inside a community): usually the arguments more used against Tengu's return are (aside of course from the personal tastes):
(One of the next characters to be added to DoA5U could end to be Tengu?)
People given evidence of their love not only messagging the Facebook and Twitter profiles of Team Ninja with requests for the character, but also through a contest held by the same fans as part of the "Project Revival" (a funny name for calling the "movement" pro Tengu and that want be a parody of the projects of the bad side inside the plot of DoA) where people made funny photomontages with the character like indiscussed subject.
(An entry of the Tengu's contest part of the "Project Revival")
Team NINJA stated in more occurrences (public and private ones) to have recognized that there is surely a part of the fandom fond of the character: recently their release of a picture of Tengu for celebrating the 1st April opened again the debate, with people seeing it like a joke from the developers and other believing that it could be an unofficial confirmation of his entry in the roster. We have just to wait for seeing what will be the next developments of the journey behind this character and the fans requesting for him.
Essay on Tengu
From some time there is an internal matter inside the vocal Dead or Alive community that unites and divides the fandom, the possiblity or less to include in the last episode of the series the character Tengu. Seeing the proportions that assumed the thing, seems only right to spend a few words on the subject.
The release of the fifth episode of Dead or Alive (hereafter DoA), even if bringing joy to everyone waiting for a sequel of the series absent from the home console scenes since 2005, at the same time was able to bring to light even a discontent between some fans: the discovery (actually happened since the first leaks) of the absence of Leon, Ein and Tengu, three characters introduced in DoA2 and always included in the following 2 numbered sequels and DoA
imensions (with the only exception of Tengu absent in DoA3).
(Render of Tengu from Dead or Alive: Dimensions: his appeareance was redesigned compared to his look in the numbered titles of the series.)
Questioned on this matter in an interview appeared on an official Japanese guide to DoA5, Team NINJA officially stated that the lack of resources (from the time to the money) was the main reason for the absence of these characters from the game:; by the way the fans speculated that in the case of Ein and Leon just their gameplay could have been one of the elements at the basis of their inferior priority compared to the rest of the cast: Ein practice the Karate sharing much of his moveset with Hitomi, while Leon born like clone substitute of Bayman in DoA2 (originally the russian assassin wasn't included in the first versions of the game).
But if a problem of originality of the moveset could have been one of the factors determining the fate of these 2 characters (by the way just an apparent matter because it's enough to spend a little on the game for realizing like Ein need necessarily a different approach from Hitomi for being used in an effective way, while Leon is nowadays a completely different character from Bayman), this can't be the explanation for Tengu and his fighting style that has never seen similarities in other characters of the game. So who is Tengu? What could be the reasons for his disappearence from DoA5? And what think the fans about it?
The identity of Tengu
Like already said the character called Tengu is the boss of DoA2, identified in the game through the race of creatures to which he belongs (Tengu are legendary creatures from the Japanese folklore) even if his real name is Gohyakumine Bankotsu-bo. Despite the plot of the old titles wasn't really developed in-game, Bankotsubo ended to get a background that saw him as a 1500 year old individual, a criminal for having killed the leader of the Tengu, later breaking the rules of his race running away from his dimension (presumably because hunted) and entering in the world of the humans, contemptuous of them and with the intention to bring the chaos even between the mankind (the so called "Tengu disaster"). To all this we have to add two pages from the DoA2 manual depicting the fictional characteristics of the Tengu race according to the legends.
(Definitely, Tengu appear far from being "friendly"...)
DoA Dimensions even reebooted partially his story making the character indirectly more tied to the general plot: his background remain the same, but Tengu was able to reach the human world through the break of a mystical magnetic field in the Miyama stage (able to make separated the human dimension from the Tengu's one). Responsible of it was the combined effort of Kasumi Alpha and the Hajinmon leader Genra, apparently secretly allied with Donovan's DOATEC and plotting against the ninja.
How it's easily intuitable Tengu's personality is evil, arrogant and hostile, by the way he present also an "involountary" funny side in the movements or in the cadence of the voice (something evident overall in DoA4) that make him slighty unique from the rest of the boss of the series completely missing of a similar element.
(...by the way the character lends himself to humorous moments, like in this scene where Gen Fu express the wish to use his nose for healing his grandaughter)
Finally, his moveset in the game is called "Tengu-do", a fictional fighting style apparently practiced by the Tengu race in the universe of the series. It make use of elements from the Kabuki dance, involvement of magical powers, use of the flying made possible by the wings of Tengu, and exaggerated poses, everything able to give at the same time a feeling of strenght and irony (in agreement with the character's traits over mentioned).
(The "Tengu-Do" fighting style make use of overhuman skills like the ability to generate
tornado or to fly)
A not popular character
After this analysis of Tengu, the idea of him being exclused by the roster of DoA5 because not original seems to not have a proper basis, noticing like the character appear to be unique in all his aspects. A more logical reason could be instead the low popularity of the character, an idea that also the people of Team NINJA ended to get (considering like the same leader of the team Yosuke Hayashi in a circumstance expressed amazement for the request of the character, asking if really there was someone that used him).
To everyone knowing also very little DoA should appear evident like the girls of the game depicted with beauty, sex-appeal and their well-know chest algorithm, are very easily the characters more popular of the series. Definitely Tengu is not part of this category and his inhuman traits, that would have been able to make him more popular in a game famous for the "craziness" of the roster like Tekken, definitely didn't help him to shine in a such series. By the way it's also true that with few exceptions like the popular Ryu Hayabusa, the male characters of the roster haven't a real gap of popularity between them and under this matter all the males could be considered almost like a singular entity (and so a status that alone can't justify a such drop of popularity for Tengu).
(No further reasonings are necessary to realize like Tengu is definitely far from appearing a beauty like Kasumi)
Excluding the physical traits the reason for the unnpoularity could reside in the gameplay of the character, in the end the core of a fighting game and that so should be seen like the basis for the player's choice to use a character rather than another: an aspect where Tengu wasn't too much lucky and that could have easily penalized him.
Putting aside the fact that Tengu is an advanced character that definitely can't be used trying to play without a precise idea of his tools (that have to be used for the majority in a smart way for emphatizing the mind-game and tricking the opponent), the "casual" players weren't the only ones deterred to use a such character: In DoA2 (and in the Xbox remake of the game released in the year 2004 "DoA2: Ultimate") the presence of a series of frame advantages in his moveset made of Tengu a character not fair to be used in the hands of an expert player, reason that led to the ban of his use in many tournaments, so discouraging competitive people to learn a similar character unable to be used in official competitions.
Very likely trying to fix the question, Team NINJA reworked his gameplay in the DoA4 appearence, but this time the character ended to suffer of the opposite problem becoming the worst character of the game (with the same result to not be used by competitive players). Didn't help the fact that, despite the lack of effectiveness of the character, some events (like the ones organized by the World Cyber Games) continued to keep the old DoA2U rule that wanted Tengu banned from the tournaments. Finally, even the necessity to unlock him in DoA4 through a long and complex way that wanted the beating of the time attack mode with all the rest of the roster (thing that meant to fight everytime the boss Alpha-152 able to give not a few headhaches for its difficulty), gave the final blow to the will of the players to play with him.
(Tengu in DoA4 is the character with the tools less effective of the roster)
Of course this has never completey discouraged everyone to use the character, with some people even ending to master his DoA4 version (like the player "NOD Subway"): but with less people knowing the character/motivated to learn him/able to share his knowledge, of course the life of Tengu in DoA4 ended to be far from the most popular one.
The remake DoA Dimensions, being handled on the portable console Nintendo 3DS, didn't get a proper tournament scene, by the way the character of Tengu was ported directly from the DoA4 version, so not improved from a gameplay matter (on the opposite with some changes that ended to decrease even more his fighting skills).
The reactions from the fans
Like anticipated in the article's introduction, nowadays the fans appear to be divided about the treatment to reserve to Tengu: from a side there are people that have never forgotten the characters and the would wish to have the posibility to play again with him in the last game of the DoA series (seeing a character improved not only phyisically but also from a gamepoint view); but from the other there are of course fans that don't feel love for the character neither have interest in his return.
On the web started various debates about the reasons because Tengu should be or less part of the roster (and in themeselves the discussions are always a positive thing inside a community): usually the arguments more used against Tengu's return are (aside of course from the personal tastes):
- His canonical death in the plot of the story (he was killed by Ryu Hayabusa);
- His figure tied to the Japanese mythology that hardly could fit in a plot oriented toward a sci-fi theme;
- Him being a character really few used in the past and that could end to get the same fate in DoA5 (so taking the place to some character that could be welcomed by the players in a better way);
- He was intended to be a bonus boss character in DoA2 and DoA4, but never one permanent in the roster.
- The character own an unique fighting style that could add variety to the roster (and at the same time making available all the past fighting styles of the series in DoA5U); less importantly but the same could happen through his physical traits or his origin from the Japanese folklore;
- The plot shouldn't be considered a determining factor for the presence or less of a character in the roster);
- With the right fixings to the properties of his gameplay he could become easily a character used from the fans and popular just like the others (and some fans are indeed working on a list of fixes for his gameplay);
- With his presence in all the fighting games of the series less DoA1 (setted before his introduction) and DoA3, Tengu should be considered an integral part of the ordinary roster.
(One of the next characters to be added to DoA5U could end to be Tengu?)
People given evidence of their love not only messagging the Facebook and Twitter profiles of Team Ninja with requests for the character, but also through a contest held by the same fans as part of the "Project Revival" (a funny name for calling the "movement" pro Tengu and that want be a parody of the projects of the bad side inside the plot of DoA) where people made funny photomontages with the character like indiscussed subject.
(An entry of the Tengu's contest part of the "Project Revival")
Team NINJA stated in more occurrences (public and private ones) to have recognized that there is surely a part of the fandom fond of the character: recently their release of a picture of Tengu for celebrating the 1st April opened again the debate, with people seeing it like a joke from the developers and other believing that it could be an unofficial confirmation of his entry in the roster. We have just to wait for seeing what will be the next developments of the journey behind this character and the fans requesting for him.
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synce
Well-Known Member
Nice write up. I think Hayashi was a fool to consider him unpopular, because he doesn't seem aware of Tengu's ridiculous unlock conditions in DOA4. I remember in vanilla DOA5 there were barely any Alphas online for the same reason, but in 5U Alpha's one of the most popular characters. TN needs to understand there are many people out there who gravitate towards inhuman/superhuman characters, something DOA is severely lacking.
Very good write up indeed. I've tweeted it to TN as well.
Tengu's extremely unfortunate fate through TN's poor balancing of the character is definitely the biggest factor in why he was so underplayed. Though I would never expect him to be one of the most frequently played characters (like in the top five most used, for example), I definitely think that plenty enough people would play him if he came back and was actually balanced for once.
TN needs to realize that it was mostly the fault of their own past self that hurt the character's popularity so much, both through poor balancing in every game he's been in and the ridiculous unlock requirement in DOA4.
Tengu's extremely unfortunate fate through TN's poor balancing of the character is definitely the biggest factor in why he was so underplayed. Though I would never expect him to be one of the most frequently played characters (like in the top five most used, for example), I definitely think that plenty enough people would play him if he came back and was actually balanced for once.
TN needs to realize that it was mostly the fault of their own past self that hurt the character's popularity so much, both through poor balancing in every game he's been in and the ridiculous unlock requirement in DOA4.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the appreciation guys, I just hope to have been the more objective possible =)
@Forlorn Penguin : Thanks for having sent it to TN, even if I'm not so sure that the write-up was worhty of something similar XD
@Forlorn Penguin : Thanks for having sent it to TN, even if I'm not so sure that the write-up was worhty of something similar XD
Kronin
Well-Known Member
Not sure if someone already know it, but I just found an easter egg related to Tengu in DoA2U (after all these years!! lol).
In the stage DOATEC Germany, under the tubes where are placed Kasumi's clones it's possible to notice a plaque with a strange symbol (that reminds pretty well the fan of a Tengu) and 2 Japanese lines of text.
Thanks to DOAOL (porting of DoA2U) it was relatively easy to take good pictures of it (try to focus yourselves on the plaque and not on the nude Kasumi XD):
While it's impossible to see clearly the second line, the kanjii of the first are pretty distinguishable and report the line: "Tengu heavy industry chemical company" So apparently the Tengu make up their wages dedicating themselves on such activities XD
Credits for it go to the DOAW user Abicion for the great find, and to the twitter user Ahmed for having provided me the translation
In the stage DOATEC Germany, under the tubes where are placed Kasumi's clones it's possible to notice a plaque with a strange symbol (that reminds pretty well the fan of a Tengu) and 2 Japanese lines of text.
Thanks to DOAOL (porting of DoA2U) it was relatively easy to take good pictures of it (try to focus yourselves on the plaque and not on the nude Kasumi XD):
While it's impossible to see clearly the second line, the kanjii of the first are pretty distinguishable and report the line: "Tengu heavy industry chemical company" So apparently the Tengu make up their wages dedicating themselves on such activities XD
Credits for it go to the DOAW user Abicion for the great find, and to the twitter user Ahmed for having provided me the translation
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That's pretty cool. Should have had Tengu in the screenshot though, lol.
EDIT - There we go.
EDIT - There we go.
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Kronin
Well-Known Member
The user @Gultigargar tried to fix the properties of Tengu to make him a character more balanced in a DoA2U roster shaped to resemble the DoA3's one (http://freestepdodge.com/threads/doao-gameplay-patch-hiatus.3700/page-4#post-174567).
I ask to the people that know the mechanics behind the game what they think about it: do you think that partial changes from this list could work in an eventual DOA5U version of Tengu?
I ask to the people that know the mechanics behind the game what they think about it: do you think that partial changes from this list could work in an eventual DOA5U version of Tengu?
Kronin
Well-Known Member
It's not so simple, currently Tengu is not part of the roster just because in DoA4 he was the worst character of the series (and competitevely one of the lesser used during the Xbox exclusivity age)... I love the character, but I want also a version of him finally able to be used competitevely in the offline tournaments and effecitvely by all the players, so finally gaining the popularity that I think he should deserve.
I'm sure that TN will bring back the character for DoA5U, but if after all the noise made from the fans the character will continue to get a very low popularity from his bad gameplay, he could be cut from DoA6 and this time definitely. The first step is to get back Tengu, but the good gameplay of the character is part of the priority (and not only of his fans, but of TN too that at this point can include the character only as a paid DLC).
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
What new moves would you give to Tengu. He already has several amazing throws/holds, but I'd like some new gimmick for him, like the possibility to make the opponent fly, not only with a Power Launcher, but a throw maybe. He would take the leg of the opponent, and lift it like a sack of rice. Then 8K, 2F+KKKKP, bam.
I want to throw Marie-Rose.
I want to throw Marie-Rose.
Tengu being "viable competitively in offline tournaments" can be taken a lot of ways. Currently, we see the same 5 or so characters dominating every tournament. The last time I saw Hayabusa in Top 8 in a 5U tournament, let alone major, was a joke of a tournament where everyone just picked Random. If Tengu were 10x better than he was in DOA4, he still wouldn't be "viable" in the competitive scene. Of course, this hasn't stopped me from using Hayabusa and it wouldn't stop me from using Tengu, but you get my point.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
This is true, but my point is that many other characters could be able to get a proper visibility in the tournaments in the right hands: just for making an example, in my ignorance of the game I think that Rig or Mila or Leon could be definitely characters of this kind, just there aren't good players using them in tournaments. It's common knowledge that Sarah is a beast character in DoA5U, and again no one use her because players of the girl are missing from the offline torunaments. Ryu is far from being good like in DoA4, anyway I think that with an hard effort could be able to be used effectively in the game (or am I wrong?).
To use DoA4's Tengu it was basically an overhuman feat, and from what I know only Subway decided to do it in official competitions.
About this, what do you think of the list of tweaks? http://freestepdodge.com/threads/doao-gameplay-patch-hiatus.3700/page-4#post-174567
This nerf of DoA2U's Tengu could work in DoA5U? (So able to make of Tengu a good character not overpowered)?
Well, you could make that argument for anyone, really, since all characters have a standard (or faster) throw punish and access to the four-point hold system and fuzzy guards. Any character CAN be used effectively if you absolutely dominate your opponent's yomi through-and-through. Does Ryu have a good repertoire of unique and useful skills to help you along with doing that? No.
It's a good start, but honestly, Forlorn has been working on an entire write-up tweaking DOA4's Tengu into 5U, giving him some new moves, tools and incorporating the new mechanics of 5U (such as SDSs, PBs/PLs, CBs, etc.). So if I were TN, that's where I'd stat. He's done a really good and thorough job thus far.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
Yes I know it, of course I was talking of the unique tools of the character able to help this work.
I know it too, indeed I invited him to send his list of tweaks to TN as soon as possible
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
People worried about Tengu's popularity need to consider that the last console doa game was close to a decade ago. There are many people who have never played doa or Tengu before and he would easily gain new fans by virtue of not having an annoying unlock condition and by not being so very shitty (probably). Also, considering how drab doa5 is with its characters, Tengu's quirkiness would stand out more than it did in previous games.
The Tengu writeup isn't finished yet. Honestly, it probably never will be, since there's so much to cover and I can't lay down specifics on a lot of things without being able to actually do some lab play with him.
I should probably just post what I've got so far and see what a larger group thinks about it, beyond the small group of selected individuals I've been consulting with.
I think I've done a very good job with Tengu. I gave him noticeable speed buffs, while still keeping roughly the slowest character in the game, but added a lot of new tools and evasive options to help him make up for that, such as numerous real guard breaks, actual crushes, and a...
Command sidestep with follow up attacks.
I should probably just post what I've got so far and see what a larger group thinks about it, beyond the small group of selected individuals I've been consulting with.
I think I've done a very good job with Tengu. I gave him noticeable speed buffs, while still keeping roughly the slowest character in the game, but added a lot of new tools and evasive options to help him make up for that, such as numerous real guard breaks, actual crushes, and a...
Command sidestep with follow up attacks.
synce
Well-Known Member
Well we'll find out if Tengu has a shot at being in 5U very soon I've heard. But again I wouldn't get my hopes up. Tengu has a few things going against him:
- He's a guy with no sex appeal in a game where sex rules all.
- Zero potential to make extra money from costumes.. in case it's not evident after $400 worth of DLC, Tecmo LOVES money
- A bunch of NG fanboys (more than Tengu users) have been demanding Irene before 5U released.
- He's in his own weight and speed class, so balancing would take extra effort.
- The april fool's joke was very lazily done... if Tengu was really coming I think TN would've put more effort into it
I know some people believe he still has a chance even if Irene is revealed, and that's fine, but I'm just warning you not to get your heart broken again
- He's a guy with no sex appeal in a game where sex rules all.
- Zero potential to make extra money from costumes.. in case it's not evident after $400 worth of DLC, Tecmo LOVES money
- A bunch of NG fanboys (more than Tengu users) have been demanding Irene before 5U released.
- He's in his own weight and speed class, so balancing would take extra effort.
- The april fool's joke was very lazily done... if Tengu was really coming I think TN would've put more effort into it
I know some people believe he still has a chance even if Irene is revealed, and that's fine, but I'm just warning you not to get your heart broken again
Gultigargar
Well-Known Member
I see you guys found the Tengu mod I made. To those of you who have tried it, if you have any feedback or ideas I'd love to hear it. I've also made a little video that showcases some of the ideas I have for Tengu:
I actually really like how DOA2U Tengu plays, so I was a bit reluctant to make changes other than damage adjustments, but I figured why no try some new stuff out. Seems like a shame to not use any of the many possibilities that modding offers. We could call the mod Tengu Alpha or something, seems fitting with TN's boner for clones as of late.
I actually really like how DOA2U Tengu plays, so I was a bit reluctant to make changes other than damage adjustments, but I figured why no try some new stuff out. Seems like a shame to not use any of the many possibilities that modding offers. We could call the mod Tengu Alpha or something, seems fitting with TN's boner for clones as of late.
In my writeup for Tengu's changes in 5U, I actually nerfed his weight class to the super heavy class, with Bass, Bayman, Leon, and Rachel. There are too many fucking weight classes in this game, and I didn't want Tengu's inclusion to add yet another one. Besides, I think I buffed him enough that he'll do just fine as a super heavy weight without being in his own class. It's not like being in his own class helped him before anyway.
I don't know what TN's personal opinion on Tengu's weight is, but I don't think he needs his own class. Putting him in with the current super heavy weights is fine, if they just buff him enough. And considering that he needs a ton of buffs, buffing him should already be their goal.
As for speed, I still have him as one of the slowest in the game, but he's more evasive now as well. I did make some of his moves faster though. He now has two i14 mids instead of his fastest mid being two i16 attacks.
I see you made 236K/PPK a launcher, like in DOA4. Like I said in the PM, I definitely think it's better that way, so that the followup 2K can actually connect.
And seeing what you did with 4P reminds me that I never gave Tengu any limbo stuns in my writeup. I actually removed 4P though, so I won't be applying it to that move, unless I decide to bring it back, solely for that purpose.
Now I gotta think of some limbo stuns.
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