Tekken

KasumiLover

SovereignKnight_
Premium Donor
I think that's a shame tbh and should be available to any player for free, as in DOA. These are fundamental things and not some stupid costume. U always hear it's so hard to find and keep new players for a niche franchise like fighting games are. Well then, you should give such fundamental things available to any player and don't let the community pay for it on top imo. This is a joke...
While it is sad, it's only 3 to 4 dollars(tentatively) so it's not really anything to complain about imo, especially since the frame data has been available for a long time in tekken via the app tekken chicken and on pc by modders. I feel like if you're truly sad about it then you're probably not interested in getting it to begin with, plus DOA has charged for and done questionable things as well too xD

I feel if a player really wants to improve in tekken 7 then they'll sacrifice the 3-4 to buy it, but if it's really that much a hassle there's always the tekken chicken app which after the frame data drops should be more accurate so either way there's ways to get the data if you want to pay or not, no real reason to complain unless you just want to which is fine I suppose xD
I love Harada xD he's probably one of the most savage devs besides Itagaki
 

heyayane

New Member
While it is sad, it's only 3 to 4 dollars(tentatively) so it's not really anything to complain about imo, especially since the frame data has been available for a long time in tekken via the app tekken chicken and on pc by modders. I feel like if you're truly sad about it then you're probably not interested in getting it to begin with, plus DOA has charged for and done questionable things as well too xD

I feel if a player really wants to improve in tekken 7 then they'll sacrifice the 3-4 to buy it, but if it's really that much a hassle there's always the tekken chicken app which after the frame data drops should be more accurate so either way there's ways to get the data if you want to pay or not, no real reason to complain unless you just want to which is fine I suppose xD

Of course, apart from the fact that DOA is a good fighting game, the way they handle their DLC is sad too, no question for me. This was just an example.

And I don't care how much the new frame data option in Tekken might be. 3-4 bugs don't really hurt anyone, but that's not the point for me. It's a fundamental thing and "should" be included in the game anyway. So let it be 1$ or 10$, I am not willing to support this. And I know this doesn't matter because there will always be people who doesn't care and buy shit anyways.

But maybe I am too oldschool for todays game policy. =)
 
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KasumiLover

SovereignKnight_
Premium Donor
Of course, apart from the fact that DOA is a good fighting game, the way they handle their DLC is sad also, no question for me. This was just an example.

And I don't care how much the new frame data option in Tekken might be. 3-4 bugs don't really hurt anyone, but that's not the point for me. It's a fundamental thing and "should" be included in the game anyway. So let it be 1$ or 10$, I am not willing to support this. And I know this doesn't matter because there will always be people who doesn't care and buy shit anyways.

But maybe I am too oldschool for todays game policy. =)
I respect how you feel and if you don't want to support it I don't see anything wrong with that either. I agree, it should have been in since day 1 since DOA did start having it in Dimensions but I also feel that now since its available why not buy it if you want to learn the game better?(I'm kinda cringing at people on Twitter going so hard and getting mad that it's charged when they're still gonna wind up buying it tho xD)

They also probably charged since the whole frame counter thing in tekken is a first and that probably took resources and such to implement alongside the other practice enhancements, so the way I see it, the small price will help the game get continued support which it will. DOA6 has the frame counter but even then the player base isn't that big and people are calling the game a "flop" and not really supporting it, so in a way it's kinda a meh vibe from both games.

I got the season pass so I'm at least happy I won't have to really buy it, I didn't even know frame data was coming so I'm definitely pleased i can delete tekken chicken since the frame counter on PC isn't always accurate and they don't really make frame data for specific in string moves which I kinda don't care for.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Of course, apart from the fact that DOA is a good fighting game

Depends on the mothership titled game. DOA4 was atrocious but DOA2, DOA3, and DOA5+upgrades was pretty good.

And I don't care how much the new frame data option in Tekken might be. 3-4 bugs don't really hurt anyone, but that's not the point for me. It's a fundamental thing and "should" be included in the game anyway. So let it be 1$ or 10$, I am not willing to support this. And I know this doesn't matter because there will always be people who doesn't care and buy shit anyways.

This I can agree with. Game information hidden because of a false sense of philosophy is absurd, but we have to take into consideration that many games in the past did not have this information to begin with. DOA was one of them and DOA evolved with the inclusion of it in DOA5. Some other fighters till this day doesn't have them.

People can give flack on Tekken for this, but if DOA did the exact same thing and just now added frame data, TN would of charged you $30 flat as if they wouldn't have done some scumball tactics themselves to be fair. The scumbag tactic of KT is far greater than most other games.

But maybe I am too oldschool for todays game policy. =)

It doesn't take an old school player to justify the value (it's still a scumbag tactic I know, there wasn't even DLC practices back in the day, what you bought is what you get). In a game such as Tekken, the vast chunk of them are competitors. In a game such as DOA, the vast majority of them don't even use it despite it being "free". But course again, I am also against payment for information that should of been day one from the start without any money whatsoever, on top that it took them this long to add it (like what in the world was Harada smoking with that weird philosophy of his), but the effect the inclusion has is justified to a degree. Hopefully Harada keeps that shit free from there on permanently.

Tekken constantly grows with each passing day and players who travel to the events where they pass by, sit down trying to learn the game, and they can seek help on how general frame data works without resorting the need to look it up online. Some people don't even have the PC version with a frame data tool to look for the information.

It was extremely good that DOA did this at the cost of zero dollars back in DOA5 and many other fighting game developers could learn from this that information like this should be free (I absolutely defended DOA for things like this everywhere I went), but in this current year and timeline and the state of DOA6, if DOA6 was on that same boat and "just now" added frame data how would we know that KT wouldn't have charged you quadriple for that information?
 
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heyayane

New Member
This I can agree with. Game information hidden because of a false sense of philosophy is absurd, but we have to take into consideration that many games in the past did not have this information to begin with. DOA was one of them and DOA evolved with the inclusion of it in DOA5. Some other fighters till this day doesn't have them.

People can give flack on Tekken for this, but if DOA did the exact same thing and just now added frame data, TN would of charged you $30 flat as if they wouldn't have done some scumball tactics themselves to be fair. The scumbag tactic of KT is far greater than most other games.

It doesn't take an old school player to justify the value (it's still a scumbag tactic I know, there wasn't even DLC practices back in the day, what you bought is what you get). In a game such as Tekken, the vast chunk of them are competitors. In a game such as DOA, the vast majority of them don't even use it despite it being "free". But course again, I am also against payment for information that should of been day one from the start without any money whatsoever, on top that it took them this long to add it (like what in the world was Harada smoking with that weird philosophy of his), but the effect the inclusion has is justified to a degree. Hopefully Harada keeps that shit free from there on permanently.

It was extremely good that DOA did this at the cost of zero dollars back in DOA5 and many other fighting game developers could learn from this that information like this should be free (I absolutely defended DOA for things like this everywhere I went), but in this current year and timeline and the state of DOA6, if DOA6 was on that same boat and "just now" added frame data how would we know that KT wouldn't have charged you quadriple for that information?

Thanks for this great, in depth post of yours! That's exactly what I feel about this topic. Well said. =)
 

Dr PaC

Well-Known Member
Why pay for frame data when I can easily find that online? Paying for that seems pointless to me but whatever....
1572243641285.png
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Here we have to take into account that this is SP3 and T7 is a over 4 years old game (Arcade ver).

Is it Harada fault for not implementing it from start?, yes, he was adamant about a Bamco policy (that is also applied to other Bamco FGs like FighterZ and SC VI) that doesn't make any sense (not implementing framedata to not scare new players).

Would do Bamco give him the budget to work in framedata implementation 4 years after release for free?, of course not:


I don't know if you guys are involved with database implementations but displaying data satisfactorily for applications that weren't thought for that from start is not always easy task.

So meanwhile I think this shouldn't be a paid feature for FGs I can understand why it's after 4 years in Tekken 7. They worked in it even if they didn't want because people asked for it constantly so technically it's like a commission.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
The only reason I'll pay for the frame data is because I plan on switching mains to Leroy. Won't have to wait a couple days to get the info I could use immediately. It's incredible how fast you can learn with just the simple data.
I mean, look at how I broke down Mila's frame data in 5 Vanilla in Every. Single. Detail. and those few days I spent doing that really solidified my ability to properly learn to effectively play 5 even better than I had been. Having just startup, active, recovery, and block advantage/disadvantage is more than enough to get started.
Edit: WTF Matt I can't find it anymore.
Edit 2: Found it but dear Lord some sections are just flat out broken. What a time to have thrown code together to make that all work, the Leon one is SOOOO much cleaner.
 
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Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor

dg1995

Member
Replayed Death By Degrees on PCSX2.(since it makes loading times much less annoying compared to playing on PS2.)
150467-Death_by_Degrees_(USA)-1496331667.jpg

I hope that Bamco remasters this game. With a remaster alongside loading times, they can also make the controls better than the way it is. (This game uses Right analog stick for attacks and you should tap left analog stick to do dodges which makes it unprecise some times.)

Kinda funny Itagaki called this game garbage while it is definitely far better than his DOA spin-off games. (Extreme Beach volleyball games that did nothing but damaging DOA reputation in the long run.)
 
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