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Tenryuga

Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
@Shadow985 For now I'd work on converting stuns into damage with Kasumi. Get familiar with moves you can use to launch the opponent and the juggles from those launchers. When Kasumi is outside of her ideal range you should also learn to calmly approach the opponent by inching your way in. Alot of the time you used her :6::6::H+K: which is a move that should be avoided at all costs. It is not a good way to get in because it is easy to react to especially when there is no lag or latency. You would also just run up and grab which is something you should also avoid doing from full screen because that gives the opponent a long time to do something about it and hit you for rushing in recklessly.

That's all for now. I don't want to overwhelm you with a list of everything you need work on; Take things step by step. Once you get comfortable landing stuns and getting damage we'll move on from there. If you haven't already I'd suggest going through the in game turtorial to get a grasp of core DOA mechanics that will transfer across all your characters. Here's a really good tutorial specifically for Kasumi to set you off in the right direction:


work on applying what you learn from it as we play. GGs and keep at it!
 
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Shadow985

Member
Tenryuga said:
@Shadow985 For now I'd work on converting stuns into damage with Kasumi. Get familiar with moves you can use to launch the opponent and the juggles from those launchers. When Kasumi is outside of her ideal range you should also learn to calmly approach the opponent by inching your way in. Alot of the time you used her :6::6::H+K: which is a move that should be avoided at all costs. It is not a good way to get in because it is easy to react to especially when there is no lag or latency. You would also just run up and grab which is something you should also avoid doing from full screen because that gives the opponent a long time to do something about it and hit you for rushing in recklessly.

That's all for now. I don't want to overwhelm you with a list of everything you need work on; Take things step by step. Once you get comfortable landing stuns and getting damage we'll move on from there. If you haven't already I'd suggest going through the in game turtorial to get a grasp of core DOA mechanics that will transfer across all your characters. Here's a really good tutorial specifically for Kasumi to set you off in the right direction:


work on applying what you learn from it as we play. GGs and keep at it!
Click to expand...
Thanks man, I know 66H+K is bad but I was using it to get under the moves you were spacing with. I got counter hits with it a lot. There were times I threw it out when I was feeling Yolo about it though. I deff need to work on my conversions with her. I know combos off of different launchers, it's just that I would think to do one thing and my hands would do something entirely different(usually wrong) and I'd drop the combo. That was happening at first when I started playing alpha after you left but when I started cleaning up my inputs me and Ael were having much closer games. I was doing really well at the start of the fight on lost world with Kasumi vs your Ein, but like you said, I got impatient and ended up blowing it. That's something I need to work on for all my characters, I just get impatient sometimes.

Heh, that's the same vid that got me started playing Kasumi, I guess it wouldn't hurt to take a refresher. My Kasumi has been really weak recently.

Do either of you know any active Helena players on Ps3 for my friend? I feel like he could be really good if he had a more experienced Helena player help him out.

One more thing I want to ask you though. Why do you go for Kasumi's 236T when her 214T does more damage outside of a wallsplat? Is it positional advantage or does it psych people out and make them play more defensively or am I just thinking too much into it? Anyways, great games today. Hopefully my other friend can squeeze in a lobby with us the next time.
 
Tenryuga

Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
Shadow985 said:
Thanks man, I know 66H+K is bad but I was using it to get under the moves you were spacing with. I got counter hits with it a lot.

Do either of you know any active Helena players on Ps3 for my friend? I feel like he could be really good if he had a more experienced Helena player help him out.

One more thing I want to ask you though. Why do you go for Kasumi's 236T when her 214T does more damage outside of a wallsplat? Is it positional advantage or does it psych people out and make them play more defensively or am I just thinking too much into it? Anyways, great games today. Hopefully my other friend can squeeze in a lobby with us the next time.
Click to expand...

I see; That's actually a good application of 66H+K if you aren't YOLOing with it. If getting under highs is your intent though I would suggest the hoshinpo dash for that. The payoff is better IMO. And 236T is better than 214T because there are juggles from it that lead to more damage plus the potential damage from wallsplat / dangerzones. The juggle I was using however is weaker than 214T but it is near impossible to drop online and has the benefit of pushing you closer to the wall where the opponent has no means to back away or escape from Kasumi's pressure. I also have time to run after you and see if you tech up or just lay there so I can apply some sort of offense.

I would tell your friend to add @ninjaguy446, He's a Helena player I spar with from time to time. And yeah once you get a little more patient you will have an easier time getting in with Kasumi when she's at range. You don't play entirely like a fool so I don't think that will take long at all. Till next time man.

:ein:
 
Ael

Ael

Member
GGs @7thfonon ! You asked for feedback so here's what I noticed from our matches tonight.

  • 1.) You tend to do P+KP at a distance, and then, you'll come in at me with BT6H+K or BT6T. I noticed this trend right away, although, I couldn't really react to it half of the time. This is bad because 1.) BT6H+K is hella unsafe on block so it can be throw punished easily. Plus, if you whiff, then it gives me free access to launch you with 4P+K / 4P / 4K also for a lot of damage. 2.) BT6T can be jabbed out of it or low crouch to avoid it entirely. Which, the opponent can then punished you for using them. I couldn't react to it properly half of the time but I would suggest you break these two habits.
  • 2.) You tried to bait me with 6K and then, into a low throw punish or into another 6K2K. This is a big no-no just because of how easy 6K2K is to react to offline. Just that, online, it gives people free access to abuse it. Hence, an online tactic/habit. And, you used this a lot. Not only is it unsafe on block, but it's easy to react to by better players. It's another habit you need to break also. Online, it gives a nice stun because players can't really react to it. Offline, it's another story for the most part. Instead, incorporate 6PK instead. It's a semi-safe move of Ayane and it's easy to delay the K, which, as you can see in our matches, hit you numerous times because you didn't expect it or didn't see it coming.
  • 3.)Your spacing was good. I think that, as long as you stop doing BT6H+K or BT6T at range, you'll be fine with more experience and matches to hone your skills. I noticed some KBD also, which is good with Ayane's movement.
  • 4.) Learn to tech when you hit the ground. I noticed that you hardly ever tech up on the ground. This allows the opponent to force tech you up which will leave you in a bad situation. So, before you hit the ground, hit a button, like your Hold button, to tech up.
  • 5.) Lastly, I also noticed that you'd do Ayane's flip over me, and then, you'd do a low sweep. I saw that but couldn't react to it. I think that's a good move to use in moderation. But, don't rely too much on that. After a while, your opponent will wise up and learn to expect that and will punish you for it.
Aside from that, GGs to you again. These were just the things that I noticed in our matches. Feel free to ask questions and whatnot. I'll try to see if I can answer them.
 
7thfonon

7thfonon

New Member
So BT6H+K / BT6T isn't a real mixup? :( I guess it probably wasn't worth it to begin with since I can't combo off it anyway (or at least I don't know if I can). As for the 6K 2T mixup, I'll try to stop using it so frequently. Speaking of which,what mixups do you think are usually good for mixing in a low grab for Ayane (if there are any in the first place)?

I wasn't sure if I should tech right away, or if I should just wait and watch before I get up. Maybe I'm over thinking it though. I just didn't want to tech into mixup or get grabbed on wakeup (if that's a thing). Should I usually just try to tech in most cases then, so I don't get caught into the force tech? (On a side note, how do I use force tech on my opponent?)

And thanks again for the games and the feedback. I guess I'll be hitting training mode for some new mixups / ideas.
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
7thfonon said:
So BT6H+K / BT6T isn't a real mixup? :( I guess it probably wasn't worth it to begin with since I can't combo off it anyway (or at least I don't know if I can). As for the 6K 2T mixup, I'll try to stop using it so frequently. Speaking of which,what mixups do you think are usually good for mixing in a low grab for Ayane (if there are any in the first place)?

I wasn't sure if I should tech right away, or if I should just wait and watch before I get up. Maybe I'm over thinking it though. I just didn't want to tech into mixup or get grabbed on wakeup (if that's a thing). Should I usually just try to tech in most cases then, so I don't get caught into the force tech? (On a side note, how do I use force tech on my opponent?)

And thanks again for the games and the feedback. I guess I'll be hitting training mode for some new mixups / ideas.
Click to expand...

Yeah, BT 6H+K/ BT 6H+P isn't a mix up unless your opponent is in critical stun. 6K2K for low throw attempts is considered an online tactic because lows in general are difficult to crouch online. So, when players are anticipate the low sweep and try fuzzy in time, they are thrown for it. It's the same case with Ayane's 3PK. Thing is though, these same strategies are legitimate offline but RARELY happens because everyone can react to this. So, unless someone's reactions are very slow, it won't hit anyone offline.

As for teching up, it's a lose lose situation whether you decide to tech up immediately or not because the attacker can continue their momentum. However, if you tech up, you will avoid being put into hard knockdown ground game and okizeme. Players gain more advantage and momentum this way if they force you up off the ground. If you tech up, you only have to stay cautious of the strike/throw mix up while at minimal frame disadvantage.

Teching up is usually up to the defender, depending on the situation(s) they're put into.

As for force techs, in DOA5U, you have to score a hard knockdown on the opponent. This means knocking down opponents with strikes that normally grant hard knockdown, or certain set ups that can screw up an opponent's tech timing. Once you score the hard knockdown, you can proceed to follow up with a low sweep, low strike, or a mid that hits the ground. Ayane's 2H+K, for example, will force opponents off the ground and leave her at +18 frame advantage. There, you are allowed to continue you offense.

Feel free to check out matches on my Youtube channel if you like. I usually upload my matches for other players so they may be able to learn something out of them; https://www.youtube.com/user/HajinShinobi

If you are in need of combos and a solid combo structure for Ayane, I have an extensive combo video up in the Ayane forums (can also be found on my Youtube channel); http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/hajinshinobis-doa5u-viable-ayane-combo-video.3554/

As well as an Ayane guide for DOA5U; http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-butterfly-kunoichi-doa5u-ayane-breakdown.2940/

I'll also be on PSN on Thursday, feel free to add me if you'd like to play. :)
 
7thfonon

7thfonon

New Member
Thanks for the extra info iHajinShinobi. Lots to read up on tonight. I appreciate the help from you and Ael.

And yeah, I'll add you on PSN when I log on tonight. My PSN is Seventh_Fonon.
 
AkaShocka

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
I would love to play you guys (preferably Tenryuga or Bushido since they are closer to me so it would be a better connection, but I dont mind playing the guys on the west :)
 
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