Should 1.03a Tag be the new tournament standard?

[Rikuto]

So whats your excuse after I point out that I can do it, too?

The fact that you can't in an actual match, and will probably never be able to back up your claim. If, by chance, you manage to grow to the point that you can, you will more than likely abandon your previous argument because you will no longer have a reason to cling on to it. The game itself will have unlocked itself to you finally, and your reason for bitching about everything will have ceased.

The stress from performing technical juggles intimidates you, and that makes you feel "left out" of games where its a major part. That is why you opt to cling on to your "i want stuff to look like a real fight" excuse every time a new thread starts up, even though everybody is already aware of your dissident opinion and nobody cares about it. You will scream that opinion until the end of days to get somebody to notice your play style as legitimate, even though it is lacking on every front, even when nobody cares.

Fighting game scrub psychology.


That, or you're just too lazy to execute anything halfways tricky, in which case competitive play is no place for you.

Either way, this post isn't meant to sway you. I'm well aware you are locked into your shell of denial and will continue to stay there. That's just how it goes for most people.

 

[Sixmsj]

Tag sounds amazing currently and if the top players of this game are pushing for it, it sounds like a no-brainer to me.

The only thing I'd be worried about is 'wasting' my effort on tag if Tecmo decides to update Tag to lose its magic.

The xbox patch just needs to come out so we can actually try the thing.

 

[Virtua Mima]

so much anger Rikuto.....
you need to let go

 

[Rikuto]

so much anger Rikuto.....
you need to let go

You confuse anger for help.

You too, I imagine float around the same level as him. Except you're also obsessed with being a guardian angel for every situation you have no business sticking your nose in. Suggest you butt out. I'll be happy to sort you out some other day.

 

[Virtua Mima]

You confuse anger for help.

You too, I imagine float around the same level as him. Except you're also obsessed with being a guardian angel for every situation you have no business sticking your nose in. Suggest you butt out. I'll be happy to sort you out some other day.

so vicious!
we fought only once online, and well... i beat you....
in your defense it was kinda laggy
and Helena really, really confuses you...

 

[Rikuto]

so vicious!
we fought only once online, and well... i beat you....
in your defense it was kinda laggy
and Helena really, really confuses you...

And this has what to do with anything?

Oh right, it has nothing to do with anything. Because it's trolling.

Banned.

 

[qoodname]

Banned.

If you seriously banned him because of that, even though it was kinda trolling, it feels to me like it hurt you a little in your pride.

 

[Rikuto]

If you seriously banned him because of that, even though it was kinda trolling, it feels to me like it hurt you a little in your pride.

Eh, there's more to it than that.

Basically, I banned him before. He cried to the other mods to unban him saying I've been unfair. They unban him and tell him not to go antagonizing me, so he comes back and starts looking for any situation he can to piss me off, including posting messages on my profile, because he thinks he can get away with it.

That's ten kinds of stupid. I'm not going to tolerate that level of insolence. As far as I'm concerned he is a worthless member that contributes nothing. So if he wants to act like an idiot, I have pretty much zero hesitation banning him.

The only thing that people like him create is drama and we're all better off without it.

 

[qoodname]

Well i wouldve banned him too then. I didnt know the background though. I mean if someone talks bs you call him out which seems a little harsh to people from time to time but ive never seen you being really unfair to anyone. Atleast to my knowledge that is. Anyways its not my business to begin with.

We should get back on topic now.

Has anyone found anything "stupid" about tag so far? The only thing that i have trouble getting used to personally is that if you get hit by some lows that cause a small stun, but wouldnt do much to you in singles since you could simply block the follow ups, can now start a real stun if you tag cancel.

 

[Rikuto]

Offense is very dangerous in tag, yes. This applies to lows as well.

The great part is, both players can do it and if you have one character that moves like a brick, you can always sub out another character with better spacing for that part of the engagement so you dont have to deal with short range low stuns as much.

Spacing is way, way, way more reliable as a defensive tool in tag than blocking. It's too easy to get hit with low stuns and 4-5 frame tag throws if you're just brawling it out and playing guessing games.

Personally I never try to "go in" when I know there is a large chance of me being blocked unless I am using a frame trap character or setup, or when I just have no better option at the time. And thanks to having two characters available to me, I can dedicate Rig to that function in open space while Bayman focuses more on wall pressure and defense when the situation calls for that instead.

 

[qoodname]

True. Selecting your team is a huge thing in tag without a doubt. Its not just about picking characters you are comfortable using but picking characters that compensate what the other character may lacks.

Now that you mention Rig i feel like he is one of the best tag partners to have. Not sure if it is just me but i cant find anything major he lacks, especially in tag.

 

[Rikuto]

Yea he's pretty good for tag. He relaunches well enough for most character combinations and has a good assortment of ground slams which open up free ground throws for grappling characters under the right circumstances. He is definitely a good pick for pairing with a grappler.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I've only tried it briefly on PS3 as my main console is Xbox.
But I have to say my opinion still stands about certain things..

- Single player will always be more popular.lets face it. (Although tag is my favorite mode.. can't judge 1.04 tag yet)

- Tag already had guaranteed setups through TAG CANCELING .. when combined with SIT-DOWN STUNS it GUARANTEED COMBOS for the TEAM and TEAM PLAY. These combos could not be held out of even on fastest stagger escape and THIS required far more skill and technicality, and most importantly team synergy than what is available now. This is not only confined to Sit-down stuns, turn around stuns, twirl stuns, and faint stuns are far more effective in tag and give that same rewarding element of GUARANTEED DAMAGE.

- Tag mode allowed following up from launchers that do not allow follow-up in single player mode (e.g., Sarah or ayane's 7K) .. again the reason for this is TAG CANCELING. There's more guaranteed setups for you people that don't like to guess.

- Having the glitch severely buffs the Single member to the point that there is almost no need for a partner, nor is there much of a threat from losing them. Especially if they can land 3 back to back sit-down stuns into burst without you being able to stagger escape thanks to the glitch. Defeating the whole point of TAG MODE. (I can think of several examples, and if you consider it with one of the characters that can re-juggle effectively then you don't need a partner AT ALL)

- The frame data outside of TAG CANCELING should play out the same for ALL MODES IN THE GAME. Being able to STAGGER ESCAPE in one mode and not the other is a major problem, especially for a competitive player as a setup that would work in TAG could NOT work in SINGLE player mode. This is a huge issue, and simply makes tag more alien to the competitive player (and its bothers me personally). For people that like to compare this to TTT2, this is NOTHING like it as the frame data when selecting 1 character in TTT2 is the same as for selecting 2 (again, outside of tag canceling).

The only reason people are turning to TAG now is because they failed to discover these already existing guaranteed setups in the mode until TN had to dumb it down enough for them and tell them "LOOK there's guaranteed stuff NOW!!!" I think this current tag is simply dumb and makes tag brain dead compared to how it was before, and how much skill was involved in creating guaranteed setups and looking for team synergy.

for people that like to compare this to MVC3, this is like that card mode in that game that gave your character attributes that were not in the NORMAL mode of the game. and that mode will never be a tournament standard, as this mode should not be for that very reason.

 

[Rikuto]

Cow, you're one of the few dissident souls who told them to remove the stagger glitch. So now you're trying to get it removed from tag, too? What the hell is wrong with you?

Most of those sit downs can't even be done unless it's from a 20-25+ frame attack on CH. And in some cases, it has to be the very first hit that lands. You deserve it if you get hit by it.

Just leave it be and stop trying to get cool shit nerfed. Your suggestion has already killed singles for most of us. I refuse to touch it anymore unless I'm at an already at an event. I'm tired of watching people quit this game because your inexperienced opinions on balance keep coming to fruition. By the time Team Ninja is done nobody is going to be left.

 

[Awesmic]

smdgh

 

[Rikuto]

Not my fault some people aren't satisfied until nobody is left playing the game.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Cow, you're one of the few dissident souls who told them to remove the stagger glitch. So now you're trying to get it removed from tag, too? What the hell is wrong with you?

Most of those sit downs can't even be done unless it's from a 20-25+ frame attack on CH. And in some cases, it has to be the very first hit that lands. You deserve it if you get hit by it.

Just leave it be and stop trying to get cool shit nerfed. Your suggestion has already killed singles for most of us. I refuse to touch it anymore unless I'm at an already at an event. I'm tired of watching people quit this game because your inexperienced opinions on balance keep coming to fruition. By the time Team Ninja is done nobody is going to be left.

It's not about weather it is COOL or not.
Of all modes, TAG was the one mode that already had everything going with it, from guaranteed setups, to insane juggles.. etc.

This COOL feature that you are talking about does not help the mode but hurts it.

I'm all for the 1 hit kills that can be pulled off in tag, provided they were done with TAG CANCELING, the way it should have always been done. That way, there is far more value to maintaining both team members and trying to come up with team synergy. And the threat of losing 1 of your team members puts you at a severe disadvantage as you lose that ability to set up those guaranteed situations. Having the glitch makes these core elements of tag almost secondary with some characters to the point that they don't even need a partner, which is stupid.

If they want to keep the glitch, they should keep it in ALL modes. If they want to remove it, it should be removed from ALL modes, simple as that. Different frame data in different modes is not healthy for ANY game, period.

 

[DR2K]

You have to tag cancel regardless of guaranteed stuns to get get "1 HIT KILLS". Seriously stop trying to kill the community from within. You're not a balance expert. They should have kept the gltich in single player mode. Then again characters already differ in tag from their single player counterparts, so learning new properties was already a given.

 

[Rikuto]

Who besides Rig can do what you are talking about within a reasonable manner? You balance a character around a system mechanic, not a system mechanic around a character.

And why exactly should a person not be rewarded for landing an attack that is that slow? If I have one person or two people, and I hit you with an attack that slow, you should die for it.

This takes nothing away from tag. Quit trying to drive everybody off.

 

[Awesmic]

Who besides Rig can do what you are talking about within a reasonable manner? You balance a character around a system mechanic, not a system mechanic around a character.

And why exactly should a person not be rewarded for landing an attack that is that slow? If I have one person or two people, and I hit you with an attack that slow, you should die for it.

This takes nothing away from tag. Quit trying to drive everybody off.

Too late. I drove off... downtown... to Starbucks.

Nothing like a good cappuccino to lay off unnecessary stress on conflicting views.

Seriously though, EC, maybe it'd be better if you waited and got some more sufficient hands-on time with the updated patch before getting into this messy debate. It's looking one-sided so far.