phoenix1985gr
Active Member
No idea lol I dont play him at all... I only got the info from a tutorial lesson the just demonstrated that nothing more
Offical Helena Gameplay Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Project Bokuho
- Start date
Akumasama
Active Member
Interesting and depressing at the same time.
I can't find a realistic use for the last 2.
I can see some moderate but very nichey use on the second.
I can see some possibly decent use on the first.
You need to train your opponent into doing low holds when you're back turned. If you can successfully lead your opponent to do that, you can lead them into a fatal stun with 7+P from BT.
...I think? Hitting with a mid punch when someone is doing a low hold should proc a counter hit, right?
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
CH means the opponent is attacking, low counters don't work I'm afraid
Akumasama
Active Member
Tested, alas it doesn't work =/ These all sound way too nichey for realistic use I'm afraid.
Nuke-Nin
Well-Known Member
I did the tutorial and CH also is an opponent doing a low throw! if you can get out of BKO before your opponent can 2T you in a pathetic attempt to "punish" you, you could probably land 214P 6K?
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
The only time players tend to go for low throws against Helena in neutral is when the she's spamming BKO duck after one of her transitions into stance (something I do quite a bit). Given that it's -4, I don't think we can bait out the throw and punish with a SDS in timeI did the tutorial and CH also is an opponent doing a low throw! if you can get out of BKO before your opponent can 2T you in a pathetic attempt to "punish" you, you could probably land 214P 6K?
Edit: Tested it but no luck unfortunately. On the upside, I blew a hole in one of my own theories whilst I was in the lab. If you try to return to standing after Helena's 4P2P is blocked for example, you eat the low throw regardless. Only way to beat the low throw in those scenarios is to attack. Be careful when using 2P+K though, as the low throw will whiff and recover before the attack actually lands, leaving you open to being punished.
Edit #2 Tried it against low OH's, as they have more whiff recovery than regular low throws, but no luck either :/
Edit #3 Added a video showing how to mix up between BKO ducking and BKO SS in match if anyone is interested.
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Strangerinmytub
Well-Known Member
Yo question about how I'm supposed to play against Helena. Bokuho stance is so fucking strong, it crushes anything that isn't a low and the good players will throw low holds if I try to punish it. I've got dudes going into stance mid combo and just throwing me for free.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It's a legitimately strong tool for Helena, it always has been.
The hand slaps are -4 on block, so you don't get any guaranteed hit when you block it. If they duck throw them. If they mash attack, go for your fastest mid. If they side step attack from stance block and punish.
If Helena guesses right, she can potentially avoid and punish anything in the game, either by grabbing during whiff recovery or by interrupting strings with a counterattack. But she has recovery between the ducks, so sometimes she will get hit by follow up mid or low attacks.
If you have a reasonably fast tracking low, that might help you in the match up. You might have a string that is good for beating it. For example, I use Helena's 4P2P because the first tracks, and the second, whilst a mid, still hits her despite her ducking. She can't duck any mid that rises from the floor, like Leifang's 66K or mid's that hit from above to the ground, like Busa's 3F+P. Perhaps your character has a string that could be useful. Low OH's work pretty damn well, at least till the player adapts.
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PhoenixVFIRE
Well-Known Member
i know you have 46PP here but technically also 6PPP and BT PPPP. same move but ya know lol
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I got more stuff for you guys! Have fun!
Akumasama
Active Member
Awesome! Some of these guaranteed/unholdable damages if you only get hit by a single attack (the first fatal rush) are a bit too strong. I mean they're situational of course but a bit too strong.
I'm assuming all characters have something like this, and considering the default ranked Health bar got reduced (did it?) I think this is something that should be toned down in future patches.
Not sure how they could tone that down, maybe with a bigger damage scaling for combos that are unholdable and start with a fatal stun?
Just my two cents, too much guaranteed damage is not good for the game in the long run, imo.
I'm assuming all characters have something like this, and considering the default ranked Health bar got reduced (did it?) I think this is something that should be toned down in future patches.
Not sure how they could tone that down, maybe with a bigger damage scaling for combos that are unholdable and start with a fatal stun?
Just my two cents, too much guaranteed damage is not good for the game in the long run, imo.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Since it's very situational, and since you must be pretty focused, I think it's rewarding. But yeah, not my "cup of fun".
Also, I don't know what to feel about all these situational FS. It suits a character like Helena I guess.
On another note: I don't know if my suggestion is good, but if you like the idea, share this tweet. I mean, it's a true official Piguaquan move after all! Why not?
That's the only thing I would ask for her.
Oh and I wish her 4PPP had a rebound property like in previous videos (did I imagine that??? Can someone confirm?).
Also, I don't know what to feel about all these situational FS. It suits a character like Helena I guess.
On another note: I don't know if my suggestion is good, but if you like the idea, share this tweet. I mean, it's a true official Piguaquan move after all! Why not?
That's the only thing I would ask for her.
Oh and I wish her 4PPP had a rebound property like in previous videos (did I imagine that??? Can someone confirm?).
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Have you tried her command list/combo challenge ? You should also watch some players to get an idea of her technics. @Project Bokuho's channel has a great catalog of videos for instance (both DOA5 and DOA6).
I wouldn't know how to define her playstyle now. Her BT is more solid with 4PK's rebound property and she has new stuff I'm not familiar with. The rest is just her regular mix-up, which is very good and combo-oriented.
Take care of the grapplers (low OHs) when in BKO. Try using her duck (BKO_22) : it avoids some strikes and can apply pressure.
She is a tricky technical character. You can also either counter attack (66P) or play the mind game (BKO_T > SSSS).
I'm sure many players will speak about her gameplay in proper terms.
Speaking of that, isn't BKO_P+K's purpose to cover great distance in BKO ?
splslick
Well-Known Member
I have done the command list and combo challenge. My issue is more of what do I do in certain situations or rather what properties moves have like what crushes what etc etc. I will look at the vids posted and see what I can gather from those.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It's the only use I've found for it so far. It has good range and causes a really deep stun on hit. Downside is that it has pretty long start up and is unsafe on block, although it may be range safe, I haven't tested it out.