Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
There is no way they will make a massive change like this in a patch. No way in hell. Maybe DOA6, not DOA5.
Bullshit. Your main argument has been, lets make low holds punishable by standing holds. That's why this has dragged out for so long. We could've come to the impasse that low holds should have more recovery at the beginning of this.My main arguement is that low holds should have more recovery frames
andI think people that are complaining is simply playing the wrong game.
This isn't VF, or any other fighter(or game) you compare it to. This is DOA. Simply play something else if you have a problem with "guessing". Doesn't matter if you're good at another fighter(or game), if you can't beat DOA hold system just because you feel you have to guess that's your problem and not the game.
I've been honestly dancing around these two things, because I don't want to tell you to fuck off and not play because this ain't Tekken, SCV, or VF, but honestly... this isn't. If you don't like it, there's 3 games for you. Tekken is roughly the same thing as Dead or Alive without holds. Maybe that's what you need to be playing. VF is even closer to DOA now... or rather DOA is closer to VF, but DOA still has it's hold system.If you don't like any of the characters that play the way you keep asking them to play, then you need to either re-evaluate your actual problems or play a different game.
Taken out of context this sounds like you're saying drop DOA5 and get ready for the next battle in TTT2 (which, frankly, might not be a bad idea at this point).Time comes when people need to just drop it and get ready for the next battle.
Taken out of context this sounds like you're saying drop DOA5 and get ready for the next battle in TTT2 (which, frankly, might not be a bad idea at this point).
Bullshit. Your main argument has been, lets make low holds punishable by standing holds. That's why this has dragged out for so long. We could've come to the impasse that low holds should have more recovery at the beginning of this.
Lol Rikuto that TTT2 comment wasnt very nice (but i so fucking agree with it). Its also why i feel its great that people who are new to games like VF5FS and DOA5 should give them a chance. Its a lot harder to get into games like TTT2 when the learning curve between beginners and newcomers is so vastly far apart. All i have to say is give the games a chance not just based on bias because a lot of those players are just making excuses so they dont have to leave the comfort zone of there favorite fighter.Good thing we don't take things out of context then. Although I wasn't even thinking of "Get Ready For The Next Battle!" in that sense, so thats a little funny in hindsight.
Seriously guys, play whatever makes you happy. If you want to play a game that offers a hybrid of guaranteed damage scenarios, along with in-stun holds and ridiculously painful punishment options to shut them down, go with DOA 5. If you want a game that offers the same exact gameplay you've had for the last fifteen years, go with TTT2. If you have the time and inclination, play both.
There isn't a wrong choice here.
Yes, if we were to take the whole thing in context, we'd acknowledge you were *the* guy who led the charge against the problematic system mechanics of the DOA series until you got invited to sit at the big kid's table.Good thing we don't take things out of context then. Although I wasn't even thinking of "Get Ready For The Next Battle!" in that sense, so thats a little funny in hindsight.
Seriously guys, play whatever makes you happy. If you want to play a game that offers a hybrid of guaranteed damage scenarios, along with in-stun holds and ridiculously painful punishment options to shut them down, go with DOA 5. If you want a game that offers the same exact gameplay you've had for the last fifteen years, go with TTT2. If you have the time and inclination, play both.
There isn't a wrong choice here.
To say that TTT2 has the exact same gameplay for the past fifteen years is the same as Tekken people saying DOA is the same counter 'n tit shitfest it's always been. Neither one is true and it's either painfully ignorant or flat out disingenuous to say otherwise.
It's pretty undeniable that Dead or Alive was a definite trend-setting series since inception. Danger Zones led to Environments, which games like Tekken would attempt to emulate, though never really straying further than Virtua Fighter in that sense. Danger Zones also led to the bounce mechanic for DOA4, and subsequently the bounce and "bound" mechanics for Virtua Fighter 5 and Tekken 6 respectively.So he over-generalized a bit in regards to Tekken while suggesting people play a different game if they don't like DOA so much. Sure, Tekken gameplay is not "the same" as it was 15 years ago, but you have to admit that it is "very similar" to what it has been for many years. IMO, outside of adding the "tag" dynamic in 2 games now, the last time Tekken tried something "new" with the series (T4), people demanded it return to its old form (T3->T5). And looking at the gameplay progression from T3 to T5(DR) to T6(BR), etc., not a lot has really evolved.
Whereas with DOA, going from DOA2 to DOA3(.1) to DOA5 now, there have been significant strides taken from game to game. And this is referring to gameplay at the fundamental level, and in regards to character-specific strategy.
all holds should have the same frame count. Low holds should not recover faster than mid and high holds, and all holds should have greatly increased recovery time to dissuade spamming and encourage properly timed and correctly angled holds the way they're meant to be used.
Furthermore, the ability to hold during stun like DOA4 should be a basic framework for DOA. Holding from stun is already less beneficial than holding from standing, and the ability to hold from stun mixes up the game making it more unique than just mashing out combos blindly. There's a definite added RISK / REWARD feature for both the attacker and the defender during those moments.
Per rules of DOA4:
The RISK for the attacker is being held. The REWARD for the attacker could be baiting or waiting for a hold to either THROW or attack the opponent for Counter-Hit or Hi-Counter-Hit damage buffs, which could very well be a launcher with some serious apocalyptic round ending combo (validating the reason why counter-holds should do a large amount of damage).
The RISK for the defender is being thrown or attacked any direction where the hold isn't covering. The REWARD for the defender is properly waiting and timing when to use the hold to deal damage to the attacker and return both the defender and attacker to a more even playing ground, allowing them to swap roles.
Aren't you missing an option?Per rules of DOA4:
The RISK for the attacker is being held. The REWARD for the attacker could be baiting or waiting for a hold to either THROW or attack the opponent for Counter-Hit or Hi-Counter-Hit damage buffs, which could very well be a launcher with some serious apocalyptic round ending combo (validating the reason why counter-holds should do a large amount of damage).
The RISK for the defender is being thrown or attacked any direction where the hold isn't covering. The REWARD for the defender is properly waiting and timing when to use the hold to deal damage to the attacker and return both the defender and attacker to a more even playing ground, allowing them to swap roles.
Yes, if we were to take the whole thing in context, we'd acknowledge you were *the* guy who led the charge against the problematic system mechanics of the DOA series until you got invited to sit at the big kid's table.
I'm saying that right now, repeating this kind of crap isn't helping your case with Team Ninja. It's just hurting the currently existing competitive community by making us all seem discontent to outsiders. No one is going to try the game competitively when everyone around is still complaining about it rather than trying to actually play it.
We have a 9 page thread (where every other post is a new discovery)on glitches/bugs stickied to the top. The other top threads on how the netcode is terrible.
I don't think a complaint about the hold system is going to deter new players as much as that.
Remember when I *agreed* with you about people just accepting the game as is and either playing it or moving on? Not once, but twice?See, here's the problem.
The charge happened during the battle. Remember when I said pack it up and get ready for the next battle? That's because the battle is over. It happened over several months of development. And It DID happen.
We were there, arguing about it every day.
Now, if you want to generalize that as "Oh, Rikuto got special privs so now he's shut his mouth and is being a good boy" then you are being ignorant as hell. That's the type of scenario some angsty 13 year old would come up with so they can pin blame on someone rather than actually have to deal with reality. Right now I'm taking the stance of the game being what it is..... because development is over. Sorry, that's just how it is. You wanna drag your generals through the courtyard because you didn't win every battle? If that's how you feel, be my guest. Just recognize that I was lodging serious complaints with the game all the way up to the final build. You can ask Tom Lee about me and my "bold opinions" yourself, if you really can't see it.
(Also, I told him this is exactly what was going to happen. So I now get bonus points for Ms. Cleo powers of divination.)
I'm saying that right now, repeating this kind of crap isn't helping your case with Team Ninja. It's just hurting the currently existing competitive community by making us all seem discontent to outsiders. No one is going to try the game competitively when everyone around is still complaining about it rather than trying to actually play it.