What's new

DOA5U Jann Lee Matchups-DOA5U

Crext

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
QueenJakheiho said:
Bad matchups
Click to expand...

Queen, could you give some numbers as for how you view it? It might help to even things out as for now this list is basically only based on 1 view (Ribu's), and it would make it easier to argue back'n forth.

Just copy paste the top form and replace it with the numbers you believe to be correct.
 
Gurimmjaw

Gurimmjaw

Well-Known Member
Sorry haven't checked this thread in a few days so didn't reply here earlier.

match ups I believe he wins(6-4) are against Kokoro, Akira, Bass, Tina, Helena, Lisa, Zack, and Gen Fu.

He goes even with (5-5) Jacky, Ein, Leon, Momiji, Rachel(Though seen in Rachel forum they believe she loses 7-3 to him but probably is 6-4 in Jann's favor or even.), Mila, Bayman, Alpha, Brad, Christie, Eliot, Hayate, Pai, Rig, and Sarah.

I believe his slightly bad match ups(4-6) are Ayane, Lei Fang, Kasumi, Ryu Hayabusa, and Hitomi.
 
Crext

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Alright, I'll try and implement them somewhat with what I have and put somewhat more emphasis on Gurim's feedback as he states he mains the character. Also I'll add a touch of my own experience if there are some real conflicts. A third feedback would be great though to remove more uncertainty. Either way, please feel free to continue discussing individual setups where I feel there are greatly room for improvement still or consensus at least. I've done 4 match-up tables myself, and this one is by far the must insecure one from my standpoint, where I basically base it much more on your feedbacks and can't debate many setups in detail outside Hitomi, Christie and Kokoro.
 
Gurimmjaw

Gurimmjaw

Well-Known Member
Crext said:
Alright, I'll try and implement them somewhat with what I have and put somewhat more emphasis on Gurim's feedback as he states he mains the character. Also I'll add a touch of my own experience if there are some real conflicts. A third feedback would be great though to remove more uncertainty. Either way, please feel free to continue discussing individual setups where I feel there are greatly room for improvement still or consensus at least. I've done 4 match-up tables myself, and this one is by far the must insecure one from my standpoint, where I basically base it much more on your feedbacks and can't debate many setups in detail outside Hitomi, Christie and Kokoro.
Click to expand...

I will try to see if I could also get Ryujin to put some input on this if he available. Though yeah I do agree a bit so needs some fixing but in time it will probably look more better. Thanks for putting your time into this.
 
RiBu

RiBu

Active Member
Does Ryujin still play? I haven't seen his name anywhere. I haven't seen a Jann Lee in tournament results either, but I admit there are usually few results posted anywhere with DOA5. I might be building a straw-house argument around this, but the fact no one seems to be picking him up makes me question his validity. What I do see are the same 4-5 characters who dominant results with strong showings.

I'm still on the fence about him being anywhere above mid tier. He's just too linear. The stuff that made him great in past DOA's just isn't there anymore. Going back to Queen's comment; his damage is on par with the majority of the cast, most CB set-ups with follow-up combo do around 100-115 on NH. That doesn't seem to far away from most of the cast, and is lower than some as well. Damage has been virtually streamlined in this game anyways with the implementation of PL/PB, so I feel that is a particularly moot point when trying to decide with or not a character is good or not.
 
QueenJakheiho

QueenJakheiho

Well-Known Member
Compare the damage he can make with a full Dragon Gunner String, critical burst and max damage combo. Thats on neutral hit nearly 150 damage.
 
Tenryuga

Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
I'm curious to hear what makes you think Jann vs. Ein is even. I think that's 6-4 in Janns favor.
 
R

RyuJin

Member
QueenJakheiho said:
Bad matchups against very unsafe chars like christie, kasumi or helena? Thats all are 5-5
His weakness he is very linear, but his damage output one of the highest in the roster, he is one of the safest chars in the roster a simple 6pp h+k can leads into a 3 hits sitdown critcal burst when you guess wrong. His gunner(nerfed with 4 frames) still one of the best tools in the entired game. I played a lot with him and against him in vanilla and now in Ultimate, my jann is a comedy troll, but he is still one of the best characters in the game.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be funny but...are we playing the same character? Jann's Damage output is not that much higher then most of the cast. Since when is 6p,p and H+k safe? H+K is -8 (-9?) and 6p,p is over -10 (sorry at work and can't remember off the top of my head how minus it is). Just because Jann Lee has 6,6k does not make him one of the safest characters in the game.

While Dragon Gunner is great when you land it...and they don't guess right they still have 2 guesses before you get any real damage on the screen. Now lets talk about Busa. Lets say he stuns you. Now he has the option to sitdown stun you or guess what? Throw you for over 100 points of damage. Even if he does sit down stun you he STILL has the option to throw you for over 100 points. Jann's only option is to reset you or hope he can stun you enough to CB you. Also Busa has reset options as well.

Last time I checked Lisa (a grappler character lol) had combos that did equal or more then that of Jann Lee's. Now why is a grappler doing equal striking damage to...a striking character? One thing Jann has going for him is single strike damage. 2,3,6p, - 2,1,4,6,p - 6,6k (even though the damage was nerfed -_-) - p+k as well as a few other moves do some high damage for single hits. Can't say many other characters have as many single strike attacks that hit so hard. Well other than Ein and Hitomi.

One improvement they could do to Jann is make those attacks safer OR give them more push back on block. p+k and 2,3,6p have so good push back.

While attack punishment does not come in to play often in DOA he has so good options. -12 p,6p > -15 crouching (like a low sweep) 6+k lift stun OR 2,1,4,6p > -15 with push back 2,3,6p for nice amount of damage.

It just seems to me Jann is a High risk mid to low reward character. You have to use the fear of h+k to set up DG.

I'll post my thoughts on his match ups later. In my option though...he does not have many good match ups.
 
Last edited:
QueenJakheiho

QueenJakheiho

Well-Known Member
RyuJin said:
In my option though...he does not have many good match ups.
Click to expand...

Yeah because nearly all his match ups are 5-5. But when you know complain about Busa after you getting owned by Ballr then its that your problem. I swear this site is full of crap.
 
R

RyuJin

Member
QueenJakheiho said:
Yeah because nearly all his match ups are 5-5. But when you know complain about Busa after you getting owned by Ballr then its that your problem. I swear this site is full of crap.
Click to expand...

I have not played a Busa player in 5/U in months. Since I've started playing again I've played a ton vs Mila and a few others characters but not Busa. After losing to him that night I made sure I corrected my vs Busa game. You want to bring up Ballr beating me? Yes, he did win not sure if that will happen again though. I did not complain about Busa. I talked about the options that he and a few other characters had over Jann. Making him and them equal to and or better characters. I don't see how me talking about his options is me complaining. Try reading what I posted over.

I think the only one full of crap is yourself. You think because you can type some made up incorrect information your somebody? Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting up garbage. Yeah Jann Lee hurts...while your getting butt raped by him. Problem is that's every character in the game.

Let me tell you a story lil girl. A Jann Lee player walks into a DOA5U lobby. This room has maybe 3 players other then himself in it. These other players all have mics in and are talking about the game. They talk about frames and other things. The Jann Lee player loses to a Busa player about 3 or 4 times. He then realized what he was doing wrong. When his turn comes up again he starts destroying the room. Over and over and over again.

On his second win the players start talking about how Jann Lee does to much damage over the rest of the cast. This Jann Lee player tries to correct those players but they are having none of it. Saying he is wrong. The Jann Lee player KNOWS he has done his homework yet these players want to complain with incorrect knowledge.

The point of this story is the only time I hear anyone talk about Jann Lee having high damage output is when they are getting beat by him. I'm not saying you lose to Jann Lee a lot but...maybe you do. For Jann to have some of the highest damage output he would have to...do more damage then other characters. Now if your talking about in single strikes then you are correct but if your talking about combo damage your wrong.

Jann does less throw damage then most of the cast. His stun launch damage is lower then some of the cast. I know for a fact his is not doing 20 points more then most of the cast after a CB > PB/PL combo. With these things being FACT how is it that he has some of the highest damage output? Keep in mind that someone guessing incorrectly over and over again getting reset by DG does not count as high damage output.
 
Last edited:
R

RyuJin

Member
If you would like Queen I can bring up some tools that other characters have over Jann Lee?

Next time you reply to a post that was about how your information is incorrect try sticking to the topic. Although I guess I'd be upset too if someone told me I was wrong about some crap I pull from thin air. Again it may not have been thin air. Could have just been getting your butt handed to you by a JL player. That would be silly of me to think that's why you would make up information though.

Have a blessed day Queen =)
 
RiBu

RiBu

Active Member
Outside of DG set-ups his damage is pretty much on par with everyone else in terms of combos. I think it's better to look at DG damage as something akin to what Bayman get's from his 214 OH. Other than that, like I said damage is pretty homogeneous in this game.

I'm wondering why people think Lee vs Rachel is a good match-up for him.

In the neutral he is definitely faster, but outside of his speed I don't see it. He has to curb most of his juggle because of her weight class, and if she gets any momentum then Jann Lee being slightly faster is kind of moot. she does way more counter damage except for Lee's counters that give him similar DG set-ups, but then that's a guessing game for more damage. If she gets a sit-down into CB, her juggle damage is usually above Lee's since again his juggle are hindered.

What points are we trying to go by to decide if the match is good or not...Are we seriously just saying that since X character is faster than Y they are generally favorable match-ups?
 
R

RyuJin

Member
The thing is while speed of the character should be taken into considerations there are many other things to think about when thinking about matches. Things like safety of the characters, character tools, range, general strategy, evasion, damage output, punishment options (throw damage, attack damage/situation) and much more. The number one thing you DO NOT want to include is guessing. We are playing DOA so hold damage is something that needs to be considered.

The problem with Jann is he does avg to slightly above avg damage (for all those that thinks hes doing some damage monster.) He has limited options, his movement is not that great anymore, he does not have any good crushing options, his throw damage is low, and his hold damage is low. He does not have a ton of deep stuns nor the option to react to a counter with a high damaging throw.

At best RiBu I'd say Jann v Rachel is 5-5 but I'm thinking more like 4-6.
 
R

RyuJin

Member
Ok listen Drago Jann Lee is not the problem. You are! You are bad. Jann Lee while he is not the worse character in the game (don't hold me to that) he is a bum basher. Yes, a bum basher. Do you know what that means? Your a bum. Yea he rapes players that don't try to react. He beats players that are new and do not understand the game. He beats players that opt to mash and or are guess heavy.

YOU mash, are guess heavy, and do not react to anything. This is why you are having problems with Jann Lee. Try leveling up a bit before you talk about changes to a character in a game you do not understand.
 
Gurimmjaw

Gurimmjaw

Well-Known Member
@Crext since the patch I will update on some that I feel different. I feel he does not have a match up as bad as 3-7.

Jann Lee vs

Rachel- 5
(I always felt this was an even match up rather than a disadvantage for Jann Lee and his 11f mid punch helps even further here. Also to note any follow ups from 8/2 P+K can be punished by dragon gunner or 3P+K. PPT is one of her most powerful options in this match up and good to whiff out in certain ranges so the grab will connect. However once you know how that works it really not a problem for Jann Lee not to mention most of her follow ups after 6P end in a high kick or mid punch which is not good considering Jann Lee can max out on damage from mid punch and high kick holds.

Zack - 5

Before the patch I do think this match up ended in Zack's favor but with the recent patch and buff I think this match up is even.


That is all for now. I feel the match ups are pretty much the same.

Now this is me theorizing here but when Marie Rose comes I think this will be a bad match up for Jann Lee.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
Top