Is Core Fighters a good idea?

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

I just wanna know what you guys think about my plan before I directly send it to the company. Don't be rude, be honest. Yes, there is a difference
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Think of me as a freelance KT employee. Whether they want my help or not, I’m donating my services and expertise.

Dead or Alive 5 and 6 CORE FIGHTERS: Good idea, bad execution.

REVAMPED DESIGN:
-Give people only 2 free characters, not 4.
-Similar to DOA5CF, the free characters will change every week or so. People will be upset that their favorite character won't be playable until a future rotation. That will encourage them to purchase the character for keeps.

-On the 3DS, game demos can only be played 30 times before they are deleted.
Core Fighters should put some kind of time limit on how long people can play the offline modes (singleplayer/local versus) during a 24 hour period. Give them 1 hour a day, and then the modes are locked until tomorrow.

As for online, yes, this’ll sound harsh; but, I believe that online play should also have a time limit. Only Ranked Matches will be available, and only 20 opponents can be fought per day.

So in total, within 24 hours, Core Fighters players can play 1 hour offline and 20 matches online in Ranked.

-Make every locked mode visible, but grayed out, so people will know what they are missing out on.
Lobbies are a luxury. If people like the game, they will pay for lobby access to fight their friends and hang out with the rest of the community in the lobby chat room.

You have to discourage people, not to be rude, but to cleverly urge people to support your game..
All people need is a taste of DOA. Video game Developers work insanely HARD. Consumers shouldn't be able to download DOA6 and play it completely for free for as long as they want. Koei Tecmo is making very little money with the current system, and that is disrespectful to the time and effort the devs put into completing the project.

Over a million people downloaded Core Fighters. I doubt the majority of them spent a dime on characters nor costume dlc.

Free-To-Play Monetization PRICES:
-Full online mode access: $20
-Full story mode access: $4-$8 (people can just watch the cutscenes on youtube, so the price can't be too high if the gameplay is shallow).
-Full access to offline modes: $20
-Permanent access to a single character: $4-$8.
-A DLC costume: $2
-A DLC costume set including all characters: $25
-A Season Pass: Using Season Pass 1 as an example: Current cost is $93. The reasonable price, considering all the content included, should be no more than $35.

ALTERNATIVE consumer purchase options:
Since Core Fighter players will only be able to play in short bursts every day, you can charge them $1 for a 24 hour play time pass. It won't unlock story mode though, cuz that's a one time experience. It also will not make every character available. It will unlock everything else however, including online lobby access.

DO NOT put a time limit on the training modes that teach people how to play your game. Only disable the training setting that lets you fight the cpu on any difficulty level you choose (it would be an exploit).

Moreover, when people first boot up the game (both the full and free version), immediately put them in a tutorial mode so they can learn the basics of DOA instead of impatiently hopping online, frustrated by spamming opponents due to being ignorant of the tools to deal with spam.
People are lazy and don’t wanna go to DOA Quest, Combo Challenge, and Command Training.
So you have to teach them the basics (blocking, holding, striking, sidestepping, break blow, the triangle system, etc) before they even set foot on the main menu screen.

I hope Team Ninja and Koei Tecmo will take my idea into consideration. You’re welcome.

 

[KasumiLover]

I'm sorry, but this is an awful idea.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

I'm sorry, but this is an awful idea.

It's a lot of text, so you don't have to respond to everything. Tell me one or two things that make this a bad idea.

 

[KasumiLover]

It's a lot of text, so you don't have to respond to everything. Tell me one or two things that make this a bad idea.

The time limits on online, the only being allowed to play a certain amount of times, and the unneeded prices. All of that will make the experience essentially cost more than just getting the game on sale or at the regular retail price.

The two character limit is also terrible, and not varied, and if it's gonna switch every other week it's not gonna help the player get into the game when they have to either wait a random amount of time for who they want or if they have to be forced to use two characters they don't like. Lobby shouldn't be pay gated and they shouldn't be forced to play tutorial, tutorial should always be optional, especially since if a veteran player wants to download it it's a waste of time if they have to redo what they know.

The whole set up is just flawed and i wouldn't even download it if this was the way it's going to be. TN's CF set up is fine as is

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

The time limits on online, the only being allowed to play a certain amount of times, and the unneeded prices. All of that will make the experience essentially cost more than just getting the game on sale or at the regular retail price.

The two character limit is also terrible, and not varied, and if it's gonna switch every other week it's not gonna help the player get into the game when they have to either wait a random amount of time for who they want or if they have to be forced to use two characters they don't like. Lobby shouldn't be pay gated and they shouldn't be forced to play tutorial, tutorial should always be optional, especially since if a veteran player wants to download it it's a waste of time if they have to redo what they know.

The whole set up is just flawed and i wouldn't even download it if this was the way it's going to be. TN's CF set up is fine as is

"time limits on online"
This is idea is a concept. If Koei Tecmo truly believes that their game isn't being exploited by giving Core Fighters players unlimited play time, then fine.

"unneeded prices"
Um... I literally just decreased the controversial $60-$100 season passes to a measly 35 bucks. You don't like that idea???

Again to "unneeded prices"
The game is FULLY free right now. The prices are needed. Which prices in particular do you think are unneeded? I didn't add many more monetary restrictions to my CF model than Koei Tecmo's official version.

"it will make the game cost more than regular price"
Yeah... that's the point. Both DOA5 core fighters and DOA6 core fighters, AS THEY ARE NOW, cost much more than the base game. So you are actually disagreeing with both me and the KT (the company). This is the price consumers have to pay for receiving free quality video games.

"forced to use 2 characters they don't like"
Mmm.... in both DOA5 and DOA6 core fighters, Nyotengu is not available for me. lol It doesn't matter how many characters they give us for free. If at least one is missing, that missing character could be someone's favorite.

"wait a random amount of time for who they want"
Tough, but fair. The devs worked hard and the company invested a lot of money into the game.
KT has to reap what they deserve for their product.
Consumers can't be spoiled brats about a FREE game. Buy the game and support the developers.

"forced to play tutorial"
No, no, no, no, no. I knew someone would misunderstand me. They don't HAVE to play the tutorial. The game will just start them there. They can press pause and exit at any time. lol

"Lobbies shouldn't be behind a paywall"
Look... I only need Nyotengu ($5). KT makes no money off of people LIKE ME if lobbies are free in a free to play game.
But, again, this is a CONCEPT. And if KT is confident in their current Core Fighter system, then so be it, keep it the way it is.
For the longest time it took me to buy the full game on PS4. I played Core Fighters for $5 for months. lol I only bought the full game because I actually care about the franchise. Most people do not care about this dead game.

"TN's setup is fine as is"
I disagree. I also believe that I've countered all your arguments except for one or two that are up for debate (company's discretion).

@RobHimself You're ticking me off when you "like" comments that disagree with my superb game design ideas. You all need to ask me deeper questions about why I make certain decisions instead of assuming the worst.

FYI, I would be fine with core fighters as well if TN/KT was still supporting the game. They are not, so something's got to give. Whatever they are doing now is NOT WORKING.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

Sorry for double-posting, but guys, I'm really close to sending this Core Fighters model to TN/KT. Whoever thinks it can be executed better than what I've presented needs to step up now and tell me what I can do to make it better. And don't say "it's fine the way it is", because, based on the current state of DOA6... it isn't.

 

[inochinagi]

Core Fighters, imo, is one of the best ideas KT/TN has had with DOA in recent years. It was the best FtP fighting game model ever, unlike Tekken Revolution and whatever the Soul Calibur one was called. They've been downloaded by millions of people. The concept in general is fine as it is, in fact I think maybe they should make all the characters available (purchasing the full game gets you all the single player content like story, replay editing/photo mode, etc, or you can buy each of those separately too) ...but the real problem is that there's no real incentive for most people to keep playing for free (something that Namco's takes on FtP got right at least). There has to be rewards for supporting the game beyond just the sake of being the better player (especially if the game isn't considered to have the tightest gameplay even in its own series). Incentive to play and incentive to win, thus encouraging more people to learn the game properly (basic tutorial should be free, advanced tutorial maybe should cost something). Costumes should be both purchasable as well as unlockable by playing online. Get players to grind for them if they don't want to pay for costly season passes. Sure it'll get a lot of people to not pay for cosmetic DLC that they otherwise might have, but instead you get a much more active community, which brings in more people, and more people willing to pay for cosmetic DLC rather than grind. Better to have a popular game that makes some money than a dead game that makes no money. I'm not super familiar with gacha games, but maybe gacha elements also could be used as a force for good here, lol... maybe just for certain costumes (i.e. make the "infamous" Venus rare and hard to get, so it's not just a matter of grinding but getting lucky, and paying makes your chances better).

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

Core Fighters, imo, is one of the best ideas KT/TN has had with DOA in recent years. It was the best FtP fighting game model ever, unlike Tekken Revolution and whatever the Soul Calibur one was called. They've been downloaded by millions of people. The concept in general is fine as it is, in fact I think maybe they should make all the characters available (purchasing the full game gets you all the single player content like story, replay editing/photo mode, etc, or you can buy each of those separately too) ...but the real problem is that there's no real incentive for most people to keep playing for free (something that Namco's takes on FtP got right at least). There has to be rewards for supporting the game beyond just the sake of being the better player (especially if the game isn't considered to have the tightest gameplay even in its own series). Incentive to play and incentive to win, thus encouraging more people to learn the game properly (basic tutorial should be free, advanced tutorial maybe should cost something). Costumes should be both purchasable as well as unlockable by playing online. Get players to grind for them if they don't want to pay for costly season passes. Sure it'll get a lot of people to not pay for cosmetic DLC that they otherwise might have, but instead you get a much more active community, which brings in more people, and more people willing to pay for cosmetic DLC rather than grind. Better to have a popular game that makes some money than a dead game that makes no money. I'm not super familiar with gacha games, but maybe gacha elements also could be used as a force for good here, lol... maybe just for certain costumes (i.e. make the "infamous" Venus rare and hard to get, so it's not just a matter of grinding but getting lucky, and paying makes your chances better).

"supporting the game just for the sake of being the best is not enough incentive to play"
A year or two ago I was tweeting TN/KT that we need more casual content, extra stuff to keep us busy than just fighting entertainment.
I don't need that fluff, but the casual players do. People like collecting and achieving for some reason (lol).

I think the next DOA entry should be called Dead or Alive 6 Xtreme.
It'll be DOA6 with more polished mechanics. The main difference is that there will be a party mode so we can play all the minigames from Xtreme 2 and Xtreme 3.
There is nothing to do with the in-game currency in DOA6. I want to be able to use my credits to unlock cool stuff like artwork.

"gacha elements"
Yes, that goes perfectly with my DOA6X idea. But when they market DOA6X, it would be in their best interest to not show off the fanservice stuff. Only returning characters, classic stages, new modes, and new stages. The Xtreme part of the game can be advertised quietly in a separate trailer that doesn't make it seem like DOA6X is a joke. But people need to accept what DOA is. Women first, fighting later.

But yeah, I really love gacha's as long as I can just buy the content outright instead of it being locked behind a 0.1% chance that I may never be lucky enough to get.

 

[deathofaninja]

They already kind of tried to integrate DOAX into DOA5 with model videos that had zip to do with gameplay. The idea went over like a lead balloon. Once upon a time I was interested in seeing some type of integration, but there are too many people in the fighting community that push away that idea and have a problem with it. I don't blame them. The mini-games could be cheaply tacked in to score a few points with fan service players, but it would be costly. DOAX mini-games are best left in DOAX, but are not even really in that anymore. XD

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

They already kind of tried to integrate DOAX into DOA5 with model videos that had zip to do with gameplay. The idea went over like a lead balloon. Once upon a time I was interested in seeing some type of integration, but there are too many people in the fighting community that push away that idea and have a problem with it. I don't blame them. The mini-games could be cheaply tacked in to score a few points with fan service players, but it would be costly. DOAX mini-games are best left in DOAX, but are not even really in that anymore. XD

Ultimately, you're probably right that DOAX and the fighter versions should stay separate. I'd still like to see it happen tho. Would be interesting.
Multiplayer pool hopping, flag racing, all in one game. I'd love that.

The private paradises from DOA5 were a creative idea, but lackluster. They're just videos you can watch anywhere, except you wouldn't be able to control the camera.
They didn't enhance the gameplay much. What I can say it does now is make DOA5 look like a more complete package in retrospect, compared to DOA6. Last Round probably even has more content than 2 Ultimate.

I wish DOA wasn't a laughing stock. They have to walk on thin ice with every game they make these days.

 

[onelasttime]

Core Fighters is brilliant. Have you ever looked at the top FtP games on the Xbox marketplace? Both DOA5 and DOA6 Core Fighters are on the list - they've been downloaded millions of times. I would imagine that Core Fighters and XVV are the only hopes for the fighting series to continue. On a side note, why is this guy so concerned with giving KT/TN more money? Between this thread and this thread, he has suggested we buy everything available & raise the prices. Gives off very /r/hailcorporate undercover CEO vibes. Lol

 

[KasumiLover]

I wish DOA wasn't a laughing stock. They have to walk on thin ice with every game they make these days.

That's the general reputation DOA is gonna have due to the Xtreme series, it's not gonna change. Either you can ignore it maturely and just support the game and respect that VV and Xtreme are here to stay and just play the fighters or you can be one of those miserable people who always post hate and negative things about it as if anyone is forcing them to play it and ruining the experience for those who play it casually since what they like isn't in it.

I feel the day that the community fully learns to just not care about outside views of the game is when the community will fully elevate, but since we still have the stigma affecting the FG fan's support of it and view of those who do play the Xtreme games, it's not gonna improve anytime soon

 

[deathofaninja]

Ultimately, you're probably right that DOAX and the fighter versions should stay separate. I'd still like to see it happen tho. Would be interesting.
Multiplayer pool hopping, flag racing, all in one game. I'd love that.

The private paradises from DOA5 were a creative idea, but lackluster. They're just videos you can watch anywhere, except you wouldn't be able to control the camera.
They didn't enhance the gameplay much. What I can say it does now is make DOA5 look like a more complete package in retrospect, compared to DOA6. Last Round probably even has more content than 2 Ultimate.

I wish DOA wasn't a laughing stock. They have to walk on thin ice with every game they make these days.

First off, welcome to FSD if you haven't been told already. I'm sure you've been perusing the forum for a while and what you will likely believe is that DOA6 is a dead game, but it's actually doing okay. We've had three recent tournaments (considering COVID) Summer Jam & KIT. There was also Fausty, but I think that happened before the maskless rule came out.

Competitive DOA5 players were not happy with DOA6 changes and that was a main problem for the game, but people are still quite active with it. Usually there are around 100 players on steam at a time and that's pretty good for an allegedly dead game. Personally, I've been supporting the Series X community and I've been training new players on that platform. Whenever I play ranked I typically find someone to fight within a few minutes.

Check out KIT 2021

Scroll through the comments and you will actually see quite a bit of adoration for DOA despite the situation 6 has been in. Core Fighters did 2 million plus so if you consider that DLC sales, Deluxe sales and Physical sales for DOA6 it did fine. The company made money on the game.

 

[Seigen]

Having a "free" version is a horrible idea because the developer will try to make money on it through DLC, the game becomes just a barebone platform to sell DLC and it will distort the developer's image about the game as a whole polished package. There's no incentive to release a good game from the start with a free version as a DLC milking platform when they can just put out a half-assed, dumbed-down buggy beta thinking they will patch it down to oblivion as they go along if the DLC milking goes well. But the DLC milking didn't go well so to the trash can the game went, as it should have.

If the developer wants to have a demo available so that those unfamiliar with the game can try it out, have the demo but don't sell DLC through it and don't transform parts of the full game in DLC. You want other characters or online mode or whatever? Buy the full game. This selling of the game piece by piece ruins it. Reserve the selling of real DLC, which is anything extra over the full game as it was released, to the full game owners only.

 

[deathofaninja]

I do believe that if they do make another game the business schematic should better fit what's appropriate for 2022. Though the free version helps them since 3D fighters don't sell well to begin with.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

First off, welcome to FSD if you haven't been told already. I'm sure you've been perusing the forum for a while and what you will likely believe is that DOA6 is a dead game, but it's actually doing okay. We've had three recent tournaments (considering COVID) Summer Jam & KIT. There was also Fausty, but I think that happened before the maskless rule came out.

Competitive DOA5 players were not happy with DOA6 changes and that was a main problem for the game, but people are still quite active with it. Usually there are around 100 players on steam at a time and that's pretty good for an allegedly dead game. Personally, I've been supporting the Series X community and I've been training new players on that platform. Whenever I play ranked I typically find someone to fight within a few minutes.

Check out KIT 2021

Scroll through the comments and you will actually see quite a bit of adoration for DOA despite the situation 6 has been in. Core Fighters did 2 million plus so if you consider that DLC sales, Deluxe sales and Physical sales for DOA6 it did fine. The company made money on the game.

Why did they cancel support for the game if it was successful?

Core Fighters is brilliant. Have you ever looked at the top FtP games on the Xbox marketplace? Both DOA5 and DOA6 Core Fighters are on the list - they've been downloaded millions of times. I would imagine that Core Fighters and XVV are the only hopes for the fighting series to continue. On a side note, why is this guy so concerned with giving KT/TN more money? Between this thread and this thread, he has suggested we buy everything available & raise the prices. Gives off very /r/hailcorporate undercover CEO vibes. Lol

I wish.

 

[deathofaninja]

Why did they cancel support for the game if it was successful?

I wish.

It was never a live service game and Team NINJA is a much smaller team than other fighting devs that can afford to do million-dollar tournaments.

Also, you can blame deals with Sony. Sony wants every game to be a third person action title and DOA doesn't fall in line with that.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I do think they should keep Core Fighters's concept the same as it was.

Remember DOA5U's Core Fighters? it was the biggest output DOA has ever had in years and you have many more players that became official long run DOA players starting off from DOA5U that are still around playing the game or just lingering on the site. For the first time in DOA5's lobby history, the most accumulated lobbies I saw was 6 lobby pages from core fighters. 6 pages. Sure it was short lived and most didn't stick around for DOA in general, but not even DOA5 vanilla cracked that and vanilla was basically the return of a hiatus from many years without a new DOA game after DOA4.

Changing core fighters to be that heavily predatory in prices and purposely making it barebones with a price on it just for the sake of being fancy or luxurious is just weird. Might even be close to cringe if I have to be completely honest.

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

Team NINJA is a much smaller team than other fighting devs that can afford to do million-dollar tournaments.

My brother in Christ, you left DOA 6 to die and your precious tournaments didn't save the game one bit.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

It was never a live service game and Team NINJA is a much smaller team than other fighting devs that can afford to do million-dollar tournaments.

Also, you can blame deals with Sony. Sony wants every game to be a third person action title and DOA doesn't fall in line with that.

Hmm... Idk. I feel like Koei Tecmo would have encouraged them to keep going if DOA6 made as much money and received as much praise as DOA5.

I do think they should keep Core Fighters's concept the same as it was.

Remember DOA5U's Core Fighters? it was the biggest output DOA has ever had in years and you have many more players that became official long run DOA players starting off from DOA5U that are still around playing the game or just lingering on the site. For the first time in DOA5's lobby history, the most accumulated lobbies I saw was 6 lobby pages from core fighters. 6 pages. Sure it was short lived and most didn't stick around for DOA in general, but not even DOA5 vanilla cracked that and vanilla was basically the return of a hiatus from many years without a new DOA game after DOA4.

Changing core fighters to be that heavily predatory in prices and purposely making it barebones with a price on it just for the sake of being fancy or luxurious is just weird. Might even be close to cringe if I have to be completely honest.

I somewhat agree with you. I too want them to keep it as is. My intention for making this topic is that I know how much time, effort, dedication, and money goes into creating video games. From that point of view, I want it to make the money it deserves.