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Helena in DOA5U

H

HaJiN

Member
I look around the DOA forums, and I see many Helena players complaining now that her BKO 6p is gone. These are mostly the same people that wanted it gone in the first place. Get over it. If Helena will be low tier because of her 6p nerf, oh well. That's the way you guys wanted it. You guys wanted to weed out the trashy players from the good ones by taking it away. It should be expected that she would drop a tier or two. Secondly, I am tired of reading people trying to pass speculation as fact. Unless there is specific video proof of a move having the properties that some of you are claiming, then don't spread rumors.

On a side note: I have some speculation. Tell me if this makes sense. Many Helena players in DOA5 end a combo with 3ppp for some weird reason, but in DOA5U it might actually be useful. Instead of ending a combo with 3ppp, perhaps you will be able to end it with 3pp (backturned) and cancel into 2p for a PFT (or maybe another backfacing PFT like 66k or 4k) and if it misses, she might still have the advantage. What do you guys think? now don't go screaming "NERF BACKFACING 2P!!!" if it isn't nerfed already, because that move has always been a useful true force tech in DOA4 and DOA5.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
HaJiN said:
I look around the DOA forums, and I see many Helena players complaining now that her BKO 6p is gone. These are mostly the same people that wanted it gone in the first place. Get over it. If Helena will be low tier because of her 6p nerf, oh well. That's the way you guys wanted it. You guys wanted to weed out the trashy players from the good ones by taking it away. It should be expected that she would drop a tier or two. Secondly, I am tired of reading people trying to pass speculation as fact. Unless there is specific video proof of a move having the properties that some of you are claiming, then don't spread rumors.

On a side note: I have some speculation. Tell me if this makes sense. Many Helena players in DOA5 end a combo with 3ppp for some weird reason, but in DOA5U it might actually be useful. Instead of ending a combo with 3ppp, perhaps you will be able to end it with 3pp (backturned) and cancel into 2p for a PFT (or maybe another backfacing PFT like 66k or 4k) and if it misses, she might still have the advantage. What do you guys think? now don't go screaming "NERF BACKFACING 2P!!!" if it isn't nerfed already, because that move has always been a useful true force tech in DOA4 and DOA5.
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I doubt 2P will FT seeing as the only moves that seem to FT in 5U are mid's or lows that stun on NH.

Who is complaining about her 6P not FT'ing? I haven't seen anyone complaining about that. Some of us are disappointed that she didn't get certain things in exchange for her FT game being nerfed but that's about it.

Speaking of facts: http://www.twitch.tv/freestepdodge/b/447241165
@ 40:38 Ninja tries to do BKO F+P > 4PP8K > 2K and it whiff's right through them, then @ 47:26 he does BKO P+K > 4K > 4K > 66K and again it whiff's entirely.

I don't know if FT's have to be set up differently in 5U, I won't know until I get the game myself but that is very strong evidence that her PFT game is ruined.

Lastly in the video @ 1:47:46 the bunny Helena on the right does BT 7P and it now has the white trail that follows the attack. This occurs exclusively with CB attacks so it's fair to say she now has 3, one from each stance.
 
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U_C_A_F

U_C_A_F

Well-Known Member
im just interested to see the changes weed out the blender spammers from the actual good helena players. she may actually be fun to watch/fight now
 
ScattereDreams

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
I don't think the game will have untechables. It seems you have to delay a few frames before going for the PFT when they hit the ground, or the move will whiff through.
 
H

HaJiN

Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
I doubt 2P will FT seeing as the only moves that seem to FT in 5U are mid's or lows that stun on NH.

Who is complaining about her 6P not FT'ing? I haven't seen anyone complaining about that. Some of us are disappointed that she didn't get certain things in exchange for her FT game being nerfed but that's about it.

Speaking of facts: http://www.twitch.tv/freestepdodge/b/447241165
@ 40:38 Ninja tries to do BKO F+P > 4PP8K > 2K and it whiff's right through them, then @ 47:26 he does BKO P+K > 4K > 4K > 66K and again it whiff's entirely.

I don't know if FT's have to be set up differently in 5U, I won't know until I get the game myself but that is very strong evidence that her PFT game is ruined.

Lastly in the video @ 1:47:46 the bunny Helena on the right does BT 7P and it now has the white trail that follows the attack. This occurs exclusively with CB attacks so it's fair to say she now has 3, one from each stance.
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In the DOA5U impressions thread, I am not happy with what I am reading. There will be no tool to compensate the loss of her bokuho 6p, that's like asking for a tool to compensate for the hypothetical loss of Christie's sidestepping stance. No equivalency exists.

Certain force techs might work under the right conditions I guess, I am not sure, but maybe it has to do with the way the opponent landed? On the other hand, did anyone else notice from the video that Helena's 66 F+K causes a faint stun? This is going to be beautiful. hehehehe
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
HaJiN said:
In the DOA5U impressions thread, I am not happy with what I am reading. There will be no tool to compensate the loss of her bokuho 6p, that's like asking for a tool to compensate for the hypothetical loss of Christie's sidestepping stance. No equivalency exists.

Certain force techs might work under the right conditions I guess, I am not sure, but maybe it has to do with the way the opponent landed? On the other hand, did anyone else notice from the video that Helena's 66 F+K causes a faint stun? This is going to be beautiful. hehehehe
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I saw that but I wasn't sure if it was a feint stun or just a non SE stun like her BKO K.
 
ninjaguy446

ninjaguy446

Well-Known Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
I doubt 2P will FT seeing as the only moves that seem to FT in 5U are mid's or lows that stun on NH.

Who is complaining about her 6P not FT'ing? I haven't seen anyone complaining about that. Some of us are disappointed that she didn't get certain things in exchange for her FT game being nerfed but that's about it.

Speaking of facts: http://www.twitch.tv/freestepdodge/b/447241165
@ 40:38 Ninja tries to do BKO F+P > 4PP8K > 2K and it whiff's right through them, then @ 47:26 he does BKO P+K > 4K > 4K > 66K and again it whiff's entirely.

I don't know if FT's have to be set up differently in 5U, I won't know until I get the game myself but that is very strong evidence that her PFT game is ruined.

Lastly in the video @ 1:47:46 the bunny Helena on the right does BT 7P and it now has the white trail that follows the attack. This occurs exclusively with CB attacks so it's fair to say she now has 3, one from each stance.
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Uh, I think I said this before but BKO 2K and BT 66K still do tech. I remember both times it whiffed was because my opponent teched themselves and were invincible. Later on in the stream I checked again on my friend who was using Kokoro.

I'm really sorry if it seems like I keep changing what I'm trying to say. It's just maybe not coming out right.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
ninjaguy446 said:
Uh, I think I said this before but BKO 2K and BT 66K still do tech. I remember both times it whiffed was because my opponent teched themselves and were invincible. Later on in the stream I checked again on my friend who was using Kokoro.

I'm really sorry if it seems like I keep changing what I'm trying to say. It's just maybe not coming out right.
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Perhaps it wasn't you but in that stream video someone was using Helena against Ein and they did BKO P+K > 4K > 4K > 66K and it whiffed right through him, Ein did not tech, even after Helena exited BKO he continued to lay on the ground.

http://www.twitch.tv/freestepdodge/b/447241165 Look at 47:26, Helena does 66K for the FT, Ein doesn't tech and it still misses. Am I going crazy here or something?
 
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KingGhidorah

KingGhidorah

Well-Known Member
This is true, I didn't take all that stuff into consideration ha ha. Well with all that in mind I feel confident in using her further. Now I wonder just what will happen with Hitomi.
 
Codemaster92163

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
Project Bokuho said:
I never relied on BKO :6: :P: much anyways, so i have nothing to complain about lol
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Exactly. If the only way you knew how to play Helena was with her PFT, then there is just something inherently wrong with the way you play. She has many tools apart from that which help to keep her afloat, and you should never rely on one setup to get you by. If you didn't you have nothing to fear with the new Helena.
 
TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Playing Hele any other way besides PFT in vanilla is ridiculous. She's extremely good when doing it and attempting DOA3/4 gameplay with her in DOA5 is just not viable. Back before launch when DrDogg told us all she was lower than bottom tier, he was actually right. The thing is that Mamba discovered her PFT and the frame advantage she gets from it more than makes up for the overall shitty character she is without it.

I'm worried about PFT being gone because at this point, I just don't trust TN anymore with balancing but at the same time I'm excited about her new moves and properties. If she plays like DOA3/4 Hele, I guess I'll be fine with it.

BTW PP2KP is still not there right¿
 
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