DOA5LR Game Theory on... Competitive DOA?

The genius game theorist, whom is aware of his catching good looks... pastes his face onto Christie and says that the skimpy outfits are distracting and that the community leaders were wrong for the soft ban. My question is, if this is a strategy; shouldn't it be banned? Wouldn't that mean the community did the right thing? Because it's not a fair strategy if it was ever considered one to begin with.

I didn't support the soft ban on outfits, but at this point I'm not sure I really care. Do you agree with this game theorist, or do you think his claims are ridiculous?

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12:53

Game Theory: The Strategy of Sex Appeal in Dead or Alive

 

You have the right idea, but the main reason why DOA5 is not taken seriously is due to the ignorance of the FGC and the general gaming public to how the game mechanics operate at a competitive level. The over focus on sexuality does contribute to the stigma of the franchise, however when someone see's and understands how the game works at a competitive level, they realize how deep and complex the gameplay actually is and begins to look past all the rampant "fanservice". I will admit that all the focus on slutty costumes and titty jiggle physics don't help matters exactly, but when someone is ignorant of how the game works, that's all they'll unfortunately will see.

To be honest, if a gamer can't look past fan service, which is present in MANY Japanese games, then that's a personal issue. DOA is simple on the surface, but even my friend is having trouble learning the game, mainly because he's seeing how deep and complex it is on a competitive level. I honestly didn't even notice the fan service of DOA until the Xtreme series came out. Even though the PS1 port of DOA1 had fan service costumes before DOA5 did, I just liked unlocking costumes and never gave the boob jiggle a second thought. Besides, it's not as if no other fighting games lack fan service, especially Japanese developed fighting games. If people aren't getting distracted by Cammy's leotard, which shows her ass 24/7, nobody should be getting distracted by Tina's C7 costume.

 

To be honest, if a gamer can't look past fan service, which is present in MANY Japanese games, then that's a personal issue. DOA is simple on the surface, but even my friend is having trouble learning the game, mainly because he's seeing how deep and complex it is on a competitive level. I honestly didn't even notice the fan service of DOA until the Xtreme series came out. Even though the PS1 port of DOA1 had fan service costumes before DOA5 did, I just liked unlocking costumes and never gave the boob jiggle a second thought. Besides, it's not as if no other fighting games lack fan service, especially Japanese developed fighting games. If people aren't getting distracted by Cammy's leotard, which shows her ass 24/7, nobody should be getting distracted by Tina's C7 costume.

I think the problem with the game is that it is more fan-service than anything at this point. The characters have their own stories and personalities, but then the fan-service seems to take those away. It's like we've been in a never-ending pep-rally that just ain't getting us any results. I don't know what 4 and before were like, but i didn't feel this way so much with dimensions. It's a real shame, too, with how much effort they put into making the characters more realistic.

 

I'm trying to figure out how everyone forgot that in the past DOA games, Kasumi, Ayane, and Eliot were underage at the time.

 

I'm trying to figure out how everyone forgot that in the past DOA games, Kasumi, Ayane, and Eliot were underage at the time.

16 is Legal where I live, I don't see a problem.

 

I'm trying to figure out how everyone forgot that in the past DOA games, Kasumi, Ayane, and Eliot were underage at the time.

That's easy.

The age of Kasumi and Ayane - at least - was simply unlisted outside of Japan (possibly Europe too, my memory is foggy about that). So everyone who didn't really go deep into the differences on the Japanese version (or did extensive research on the internet) could most likely be left in the dark.

 

16 is Legal where I live, I don't see a problem.

16 is legal, but they still wouldn't be. They're not from your state, and crossing state boarders moves it up to 18, even if it's 16 in both states.

 

16 is legal, but they still wouldn't be. They're not from your state, and crossing state boarders moves it up to 18, even if it's 16 in both states.

Nope, it's illegal to transport a minor with the intention of getting around their state's AOC or for prostitution. Crossing state borders into another state with the same AOC does not raise it. The legalese is a bit dense but it's pretty clear.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/117/2423

 

tina

christie
even if i fight a naked character as christie, tina, ... this is all i see in front of me

 

I shoudl've thought about this earlier. Actually, his comment here is valid: if a character is underage, but you have to be of age to play the game, even if she is not real, is this no different than Lolita Complex? What if we were watching etti of underage women? A quick google search shows that that is theoretically against the law, with only legal precedents to use as a defense.

Here is bit of information I do understand a bit when it comes to the character ages & what is allowable within medias. (although there may be more I'm not fully aware)

Lets say for example DOA was originally created in Japan by the hands of Tomonobu Itagaki which he created Ayane who is 16 years old and the costumes she wears may get people from different countries questioning Itagaki for his creation, (since Age of Consent is very similar to rating systems, alcohol, tobacco rules) which DOA gets 17+ (which is NA & JPN rating) despite Itagaki's game may have characters that are under 17 wearing questionable outfits, as long as its following the rules that was made in Japan which their Age of Consent is 13 (they do forbid sex between non-married couples with anyone under 18), and another thing is what they don't allow within their medias is explicit content (like sex & genitals which western games would get censored in Japan in content like this is present, but these kind of content would be hentai.) as long as its suggestive which DOA hasn't reach that limit.

But for the rest of the world is where each has their own rules/laws, this is where their publisher needs to either worry about other countries and they have little to no choice on censoring content since it won't fly very well in the rest of the world. Even if NA gave DOA 17+, any character that is under 18 and is wearing outfits that may be considered as unacceptable. They need to edit their age, remove the costume all together, or leave the game as Japan exclusive. Even Europe releases need to the same since their rating system is united, even if certain countries are very strict with their rules/laws which you need to edit your content or get your game banned, like Sweden would have problems with games like DOA especially with their characters. Which that game may be unsellable in one country, other countries that doesn't have that effect can still be able to purchase their game with no edits (depending on the content).

Every country has their rules on what do they allow, maybe all it takes is a minor edit or have to change so much just so you can get your game to sell worldwide. Some people would take risks or want to offer the full experience even if causes controversy, they might not have to edit things but they would still need to follow some rules. Does it make sense?

 

LOL only hopeless lonely perverts get distracted by sexy outfits

 

I didn't know @Rikuto, that's pretty amazing.

Anyone know what the Japanese and Asian players think about all this?

 

Nope, it's illegal to transport a minor with the intention of getting around their state's AOC or for prostitution. Crossing state borders into another state with the same AOC does not raise it. The legalese is a bit dense but it's pretty clear.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/117/2423

The existence of that law does not exclude the existence of another law. That said, this law is explicitly referring to prostitution (arguably section B does imply that the age is 18, but it's debatable whether or not the definition of "prosecutable" includes the declarations in it's own section). Moreover, given how contract law works, if he so much as buys her an icecream cone.... That said, porn is commercial (either through ads or direct monetary purchase, regardless of piracy). DoA is also commercial, but fortunately certain lines are not being crossed (which one might feel inclined to not take this fact from my original statement). And yes, whether or not it would get taken seriously depends on the judge. Some judges would roll that modeling naked wasn't for prostitution, yet other judges may rule that pictures with clothes on is so if so much as a soda was bought. Plus, there are legal precedents regarding child-porn, which makes the murkey waters a little more clear.

Though really, you should ask yourself, "is my own interpretation worth the risk?"

Here is bit of information I do understand a bit when it comes to the character ages & what is allowable within medias. (although there may be more I'm not fully aware)

Lets say for example DOA was originally created in Japan by the hands of Tomonobu Itagaki which he created Ayane who is 16 years old and the costumes she wears may get people from different countries questioning Itagaki for his creation, (since Age of Consent is very similar to rating systems, alcohol, tobacco rules) which DOA gets 17+ (which is NA & JPN rating) despite Itagaki's game may have characters that are under 17 wearing questionable outfits, as long as its following the rules that was made in Japan which their Age of Consent is 13 (they do forbid sex between non-married couples with anyone under 18), and another thing is what they don't allow within their medias is explicit content (like sex & genitals which western games would get censored in Japan in content like this is present, but these kind of content would be hentai.) as long as its suggestive which DOA hasn't reach that limit.

Right, there is a distinction between actual material and questionable material.

But for the rest of the world is where each has their own rules/laws, this is where their publisher needs to either worry about other countries and they have little to no choice on censoring content since it won't fly very well in the rest of the world. Even if NA gave DOA 17+, any character that is under 18 and is wearing outfits that may be considered as unacceptable. They need to edit their age, remove the costume all together, or leave the game as Japan exclusive. Even Europe releases need to the same since their rating system is united, even if certain countries are very strict with their rules/laws which you need to edit your content or get your game banned, like Sweden would have problems with games like DOA especially with their characters. Which that game may be unsellable in one country, other countries that doesn't have that effect can still be able to purchase their game with no edits (depending on the content).

Yeah, about Sweden... And Marie.... And a rumor i can't confirm since i dont' speak swedish...

But yes, this is indeed the case. Some would also question the validity of simply changing a number (though outside of the number, any gauge is dangerous).

Every country has their rules on what do they allow, maybe all it takes is a minor edit or have to change so much just so you can get your game to sell worldwide. Some people would take risks or want to offer the full experience even if causes controversy, they might not have to edit things but they would still need to follow some rules. Does it make sense?

Very much so. Though it's kinda dicey when you're bordering laws. Imagine if a law were suddenly to change. Better yet, judges have notoriously ignored parts of laws, as well as legislate laws that aren't actually written (despite it being frowned upon or arguably illegal in it's own right, it does happen). Although I haven't read the decision and evidence myself, the recent Gay Marriage approval in the US is said to be judicial legislation.

I didn't know @Rikuto, that's pretty amazing.

Anyone know what the Japanese and Asian players think about all this?

Players of DoA in Japan and other areas would defend the game just like we have. No, the real interesting question is what people who play games but not DoA have to say about it (unfortunately eastern culture doesn't allow much room for criticism, so have fun getting a real response).

 

Absolutely ridiculous...,

When match starts the player is 100% focused on the game and in a game as fast as DOA or any other fighting game, you dont have time for anything other than follow the movements of your opponent and your own moves.

Review of people who do not know DOA, and he does not care to know.

Sadly it is the old stigma of DOA, and it seems never get over the people ignorance.

Greetings

 

Nonsense. This dude assumes that we're all virgin perverts that can't handle scantily clad polygons while under the stress of a tournament environment.

Unfortunate that stuff like this reaches so many people.

 

The qualifications for being labeled a "genius" sure have fallen.

 

i was playing DOA Last Round at anime expo. as you know there are tons of people there. and a good amount of these people walk around looking at the various games. I remember watching a match between two people. one was playing as Marie Rose in that blue jumpsuit (or w/e it is) and the other was playing as Kokoro in the black mini skirt and white top. a couple people walked by and one guy asked "i wonder why tons of people are on the other side of the table watch that game but no one is paying attention to this." the girl he was with scoffed and merely stated, "Look at the characters. It's just a game about sluts." this almost made me flinch, for I haven't heard the game insulted by actual people that were looking at it for the first time. That was their first impression on DOA.

I immediately thought about this topic and the "soft bans". I personally, don't care because I play my characters in well dressed outfits anyway. i don't care what other people play theirs in. I think of an outfit as good or ugly. no sexualization included in my taste.

I've heard about people not liking the game or not appealing to them due to how sexual people look in the game. and to people looking at the game for the first time, looks is a big weighing factor as to whether they're interested or not. the game FIGHTING CLIMAX was nearby and people were really loving what they were seeing. and this was before they recognized any of the characters. granted it's a flashy 2D fighting compared to a complex 3D fighter but i'm talking about first impressions.

i know this has been stated repeatedly but I agree that if we want more people to get interested in the game and/or take it seriously we have to make it look presentable. and unfortunately, not everyone is for women fighting in bikinis. to them DOA is another Rumble Roses for next gen consoles.

P.S. last thing i just remembered. Me and others were playing a tournament on DOA on the big screen at Anime Expo. the commentators were people that hadn't experienced the game before. at first all they were talking about were how many times they could count a girl's boobs bouncing. this is when Rachel was picked with that tecmo bowl outfit. forgot who the other character was. Then when I played Mila ( i pretty much only choose her 2P outfit). The only thing that was talked about her figure was how long her legs were. not a single sexual joke was used. and of course they say that if they were to use a character in the game it would be Mila (that's most likely unrelated to the point i was trying to make) but it was nice to hear that none-the-less. okay essay done.

 

i was playing DOA Last Round at anime expo. as you know there are tons of people there. and a good amount of these people walk around looking at the various games. I remember watching a match between two people. one was playing as Marie Rose in that blue jumpsuit (or w/e it is) and the other was playing as Kokoro in the black mini skirt and white top. a couple people walked by and one guy asked "i wonder why tons of people are on the other side of the table watch that game but no one is paying attention to this." the girl he was with scoffed and merely stated, "Look at the characters. It's just a game about sluts." this almost made me flinch, for I haven't heard the game insulted by actual people that were looking at it for the first time. That was their first impression on DOA.

The sad thing is that certain people here will deny it. I try posting my own stories all the time of how this is. There are people who know the game is more than that, too, but blame sexuality for it's shortcomings, but that's a whole different issue. What makes it even worse is that, at least from an outsider's view, i feel the same way about anime expo as they felt about DoA. But i doubt people will truly understand what that means impression wise.

I immediately thought about this topic and the "soft bans". I personally, don't care because I play my characters in well dressed outfits anyway. i don't care what other people play theirs in. I think of an outfit as good or ugly. no sexualization included in my taste.

I've heard about people not liking the game or not appealing to them due to how sexual people look in the game. and to people looking at the game for the first time, looks is a big weighing factor as to whether they're interested or not. the game FIGHTING CLIMAX was nearby and people were really loving what they were seeing. and this was before they recognized any of the characters. granted it's a flashy 2D fighting compared to a complex 3D fighter but i'm talking about first impressions.

Whether we like it or not, first impressions are indeed everything. My girlfriend refuses to play fighters, and a special clause is attached to DoA (she actually tries other fighters more than once). I remember my girlfriend coming over to my house and saying "wow, the first thing i see when i enter your room is tits" when it was actually just a Marie mirror match (this means peoples' first impressions last).

i know this has been stated repeatedly but I agree that if we want more people to get interested in the game and/or take it seriously we have to make it look presentable. and unfortunately, not everyone is for women fighting in bikinis. to them DOA is another Rumble Roses for next gen consoles.

I agree. This is what i always hear from people when showing DoA to them the first time, except they don't reference Rumble Roses. It's interesting to note, though, that i keep hearing about bikinis from DoA people like myself, but i rarely hear bikinis being referenced by people by their first impressions. It's usually boob and general costume references (like Tina in the black leather cat outfit). Oddly enough, usually said people (often female) don't get bothered by the scene after the first boss of Duke Nukem Forever (yet do get annoyed with the twins). I don't know if it's because the perversion is met actually done with humor, or the lack of feeling of a tease as opposed to comedy, if it was because Duke was in a closed off area, or if it was the lack of focus on the women themselves being that way that made things more acceptable, despite being much more explicit. It's an interesting thing that we should consider, despite Duke Nukem Forever being rated as a terrible game.

P.S. last thing i just remembered. Me and others were playing a tournament on DOA on the big screen at Anime Expo. the commentators were people that hadn't experienced the game before. at first all they were talking about were how many times they could count a girl's boobs bouncing. this is when Rachel was picked with that tecmo bowl outfit. forgot who the other character was. Then when I played Mila ( i pretty much only choose her 2P outfit). The only thing that was talked about her figure was how long her legs were. not a single sexual joke was used. and of course they say that if they were to use a character in the game it would be Mila (that's most likely unrelated to the point i was trying to make) but it was nice to hear that none-the-less. okay essay done.

This is the magical thing that happens when people give DoA a long enough chance, simply because they're forced to. They realize there's more than hoes.

 

There's one major flaw in his theory. You can just avoid downloading the costume catalogues, and even then DOA is far too fast pace to notice how revealing the characters are.

 

okay idk why people actually care about what the characters wear and

i was playing DOA Last Round at anime expo. as you know there are tons of people there. and a good amount of these people walk around looking at the various games. I remember watching a match between two people. one was playing as Marie Rose in that blue jumpsuit (or w/e it is) and the other was playing as Kokoro in the black mini skirt and white top. a couple people walked by and one guy asked "i wonder why tons of people are on the other side of the table watch that game but no one is paying attention to this." the girl he was with scoffed and merely stated, "Look at the characters. It's just a game about sluts." this almost made me flinch, for I haven't heard the game insulted by actual people that were looking at it for the first time. That was their first impression on DOA.

I immediately thought about this topic and the "soft bans". I personally, don't care because I play my characters in well dressed outfits anyway. i don't care what other people play theirs in. I think of an outfit as good or ugly. no sexualization included in my taste.

I've heard about people not liking the game or not appealing to them due to how sexual people look in the game. and to people looking at the game for the first time, looks is a big weighing factor as to whether they're interested or not. the game FIGHTING CLIMAX was nearby and people were really loving what they were seeing. and this was before they recognized any of the characters. granted it's a flashy 2D fighting compared to a complex 3D fighter but i'm talking about first impressions.

i know this has been stated repeatedly but I agree that if we want more people to get interested in the game and/or take it seriously we have to make it look presentable. and unfortunately, not everyone is for women fighting in bikinis. to them DOA is another Rumble Roses for next gen consoles.

P.S. last thing i just remembered. Me and others were playing a tournament on DOA on the big screen at Anime Expo. the commentators were people that hadn't experienced the game before. at first all they were talking about were how many times they could count a girl's boobs bouncing. this is when Rachel was picked with that tecmo bowl outfit. forgot who the other character was. Then when I played Mila ( i pretty much only choose her 2P outfit). The only thing that was talked about her figure was how long her legs were. not a single sexual joke was used. and of course they say that if they were to use a character in the game it would be Mila (that's most likely unrelated to the point i was trying to make) but it was nice to hear that none-the-less. okay essay done.

how is this game about sluts ? did the characters had sex with every guy or girl ? no some characters wear slutty outfits but that doesn't make them sluts lol why do outfits have to be so covered ? they got nice bodies so they can show them off its not like they fight naked and that bitch doesnt even know the story of the characters so she need to shut her ignorant ass up

 

I never got the slut argument either.
I thought to be a slut, you needed to have sex with plenty of men or be very open about sex. Only maybe 2 characters(Tina and Nyotengu) can even remotely fit that term and even then, Tina fits The Tease way more and Nyotengu just flaunts it like Bayonetta: She can and possibly will put out...but not with you.

Christie will just fuck with you but never be serious lest you are on her list to be killed.