DOA 7. Let's talk about it.

[TheHunterKiller692]

NGL, I've gotten no news whatsoever that claims that DOA 7 will be in production YET, but so far, there haven't been any leaks in the past 6 months. Even if most of the West outright hates the way KT has been treating DOA since 6 dropped, I'm one of the few who are glad that Itagaki was nowhere near it. However, it doesn't mean I'll have absolute jubilation or condemnation of who'll be hired to be the gameplay design director and producer, as the Japanese fanbase (ironically enough) doesn't want a DOA 7 immediately, but are willing to stick with the franchise through thick and thin by any means necessary. So, before people say "Oh, you're narrow-minded again, James. You should stop trying to be a party-pooper.", and shockingly, I'm not outright asking for DOA to just be shelved if that's not what KT wants to do. I simply don't feel that there are a lot of mouths to feed in the community or the legacy community will have passed on their talents to newer players, thus giving this website life when others won't. I would advise patience towards any announcement that may HINT at DOA 7, even if it's not going to be the tip of the spear.

 

[Wheels92]

The Japanese have it right though. DOA6 was rushed development. DOA7 needs to simmer and take it's time developing into something extraordinary. I would love DOA7 as well, but not a rushed piece of crap like DOA6 is. I need 7 to have rollback, possibly battle lounge systems like SF6 and T8 to start. I mean these things are standards in today's society when it comes to FGs. If TN can't do these basic implementations, then I wouldn't want a DOA7, not until they learn how to at least.

 

[Twin_T]

The Japanese have it right though. DOA6 was rushed development. DOA7 needs to simmer and take it's time developing into something extraordinary. I would love DOA7 as well, but not a rushed piece of crap like DOA6 is. I need 7 to have rollback, possibly battle lounge systems like SF6 and T8 to start. I mean these things are standards in today's society when it comes to FGs. If TN can't do these basic implementations, then I wouldn't want a DOA7, not until they learn how to at least.

DOA4 had the lounge system back in 2005, and even DOA Online. They scrapped it for something "serious" and streamlined for DOA5 and DOA6. I have some hope that they will bring it back, but I hope they but their balls on the table and remember that a lot of content they did back in the day can be brought back. Especially the online versus modes such as Online Survival and Team Battle. And NOT rush this game and release it with missing game modes and features. Ranked isn't everything. In fact, Ranked is a minor part of DOA from what I've seen.
It's questionable if we even get another DOA Fighting Game before we get another Xtreme, but if we do, I'm certain they will take their time. I wonder if any of the DOA Team will still be around. They DID have to outsource the game, and use an engine for Dynasty Warriors, instead of the engine they had already developed for DOA5. I'd be surprised if they even still have the Soft Engine. 9x out of 10, they'll likely also use Unreal Engine. If the DOA Team ain't working on DOA, I'm skeptical on whether or not the game we would get would even be a good DOA game, or something else entirely, and who would it be for.

I'm whatever on Rollback, because I've experienced too many input discrepancies and misfortunes caused by rollback to be in favor of it. Frankly, not only do I hate it, but as many fighting games have proven, rollback isn't some catch-all. That said, I'm just a salty minority.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

> possibly battle lounge
Bloated free roaming lobbies are a downgrade compared to quick and sane menus lmao. DOA4 did unimaginable damage to the FGC by spreading this tumor.
Halt, player, before you pass you must solve my riddles three!

Besides being a waste of time for players I used to believe they were a waste of time and budget for developers too, but now that they're monetizing that as well idk lool

I'm whatever on Rollback, because I've experienced too many input discrepancies and misfortunes caused by rollback to be in favor of it. Frankly, not only do I hate it, but as many fighting games have proven, rollback isn't some catch-all. That said, I'm just a salty minority.

You're not a minority, you're just wrong (obviously).
If the problem you're describing is "desyncs", then it's not a rollback exclusive. Heck we don't even need to look far for examples: DOA2O and DOA5LR have lockstep netcode and they still desync a lot.
If your rollback experience consists of just Flycast Dojo games on Fightcade and wonder why it kinda blows then I think I know the reason:

The truth is that Flycast ("heavy" 3D emu!) doesn't support many rollback frames, you can't just set input delay to 0F with everyone in the world like you would in FBNeo and call it a day.

Too many frames to rollback in Flycast will be counter-productive and create heavy unplayable slowdowns... so you and your opponent will have to do a balancing act of raising your input delay frames to keep rollback frames low enough. Enable the Show Network Statistics Overlay option to visualize when you're hitting this rollback limit.

...so the problem is that it doesn't rollback ENOUGH lel

 

[Twin_T]

If the problem you're describing is "desyncs", then it's not a rollback exclusive. Heck we don't even need to look far for examples: DOA2O and DOA5LR have lockstep netcode and they still desync a lot.

Nope. Not desyncs. Rolled back frames. I barely play Fightcade, as I mainly play Tekken and I occasionally DNF DUEL every blue moon, so I haven't experienced the Fightcade rollback, so I can't speak for that one, but I've had many experiences where inputs would get nullified, and wins, or advantageous situations would get snatched from my screen. It happens more times for me to look at it positively. Take this Vega clip for instance.

This exact situation happened to me in Tekken so many times, and still happen, that I've hated rollback for it.
I'm included this simply out of irony;

Sure, rollback is great, as the choir says, and I may be wrong, sure, but I repeat; I'm a salty minority. I'd rather have my inputs delayed, than not have them happen when I want them most.

 

[deathofaninja]

The way I see it is that fighting games online will probably never be perfect and I just accept that both me and my opponent are going to experience the same issues if there are any. Not one person or the other. So, when I put effort into thinking what I would want for a sequel - online improvements are welcomed but the investment from me isn't there purely because I care more about offline.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

>Sleep Fighter 5
>Kekken

I mean shieeet, the way you accurately picked the few games well-known for having badly implemented rollbacks is uncanny, no wonder they left you a bad taste. Look at Mike Ross' beautiful mug in the thumbnail, he aint lyin'

The GGPO creator himself theorized SF5's rollback being garbage because Capcom forgot to "balance the rift", see the explanation straight from the horse's mouth at 31:10 but TL;DW: for one reason or another the same game ran on 2 different machines WILL play at slightly different speeds, and this needs to be corrected by just slowing down the game a bit to let the opponent who's behind catch up, to prevent one-sided rollbacks.

As for Kekken (TTT2 TK7 TK8) that monstrosity claiming to be "rollback" is really not. I'm serious, it doesn't count, it's something else, if you go to https://fgcharts.com/ and click Search by tags... they're labelled as "Hybrid Netcode", which is a euphemism for "trash".

I guess I'm lucky my first online fg was 3rd Strike on GGPO. Set a good standard

 

[Twin_T]

I only played SF5 once. And that was 5.0 Never played it again afterwards. I bring that case simply as an example that can happen because of one-sided rollback.

slowing down the game a bit to let the opponent who's behind catch up, to prevent one-sided rollbacks.

This is what I am in favor for. As long as this happens, I'm good.

 

[Wheels92]

DOA4 had the lounge system back in 2005, and even DOA Online. They scrapped it for something "serious" and streamlined for DOA5 and DOA6. I have some hope that they will bring it back, but I hope they but their balls on the table and remember that a lot of content they did back in the day can be brought back. Especially the online versus modes such as Online Survival and Team Battle. And NOT rush this game and release it with missing game modes and features. Ranked isn't everything. In fact, Ranked is a minor part of DOA from what I've seen.
It's questionable if we even get another DOA Fighting Game before we get another Xtreme, but if we do, I'm certain they will take their time. I wonder if any of the DOA Team will still be around. They DID have to outsource the game, and use an engine for Dynasty Warriors, instead of the engine they had already developed for DOA5. I'd be surprised if they even still have the Soft Engine. 9x out of 10, they'll likely also use Unreal Engine. If the DOA Team ain't working on DOA, I'm skeptical on whether or not the game we would get would even be a good DOA game, or something else entirely, and who would it be for.

I'm whatever on Rollback, because I've experienced too many input discrepancies and misfortunes caused by rollback to be in favor of it. Frankly, not only do I hate it, but as many fighting games have proven, rollback isn't some catch-all. That said, I'm just a salty minority.

All around good discussion. Agreed with a lot of what you said. The cliffhanger stages need to come back too! As for the rollback, rollback works if the developers understand how tf to implement it properly lol. Tekken 8 still isn’t using true rollback bc the rollback frame is capped at 5. That is 5 frames off from the fastest normal in the game being 10frames. Other rollback in games try and retrofit it in when you cannot do that well. Rollback isn’t perfect but trust me, when done correctly it really does work very well. SF6 as a prime example. It might lag but your inputs do not drop, they are still read and acknowledged within the online match. Most of these FG developers do not understand rollback and are trying to do it themselves without asking for any outside help.

They need to bring back a bunch of stuff that makes DOA what it is. Good post

 

[Wheels92]

> possibly battle lounge
Bloated free roaming lobbies are a downgrade compared to quick and sane menus lmao. DOA4 did unimaginable damage to the FGC by spreading this tumor.
Halt, player, before you pass you must solve my riddles three!

Besides being a waste of time for players I used to believe they were a waste of time and budget for developers too, but now that they're monetizing that as well idk lool



You're not a minority, you're just wrong (obviously).
If the problem you're describing is "desyncs", then it's not a rollback exclusive. Heck we don't even need to look far for examples: DOA2O and DOA5LR have lockstep netcode and they still desync a lot.
If your rollback experience consists of just Flycast Dojo games on Fightcade and wonder why it kinda blows then I think I know the reason:
...so the problem is that it doesn't rollback ENOUGH lel

This ^^ rollback has to be able to match or catch the fastest button in the game. If it’s capped at let’s say 5frames bc Gekken8 lol then yeah it’s not working as proper rollback. Silly Japanese developer/s, ask for help already lololol

 

[The 4th phase]

if they end up making number 7, lets hope they learn from past mistakes. i am pretty sure they will end up making another gimmick mechanic though. have to try to appeal to the masses.