Did Marie Rose and Honoka ruin the DOA Fighting game?

[T..J. Bernard]

I made a post about this earlier. However, considering how I guess big this kind of topic is, It's better that I put this as a forum instead. This is stemmed from a YT video that someone linked in the competitive facebook group and since much of the time now, I'm seeing this Marie and Honoka tug-o-war, I figured I'd give a platform of discussion. Here is the youtube video:

My initial thoughts are in my own post about it, but in case no one wants to read through that:
No. I don't think Marie and Honoka initially are what ruins DOA as a fighter. I feel there are a lot of underlying issues that come into play that can contribute to that. I think personally they also contribute to that as well considering how the DOAX series just continues to get pushed more than the fighter, which is to me a more big issue and I feel this push kinda puts players in a "take it or leave it" kind of situation. As FG characters to put it as short as possible (And I include NiCO to this as well):

• Their designs aren't my personal favorite.
• Though Honoka's fighting style is literally bootleg TTT2 Combot, MR and NiCO fighting style isn't really that bad (though the lightning's weird).
• The way they act as characters for me just doesn't scream FG. Which I'd say the same for like Josie, Katarina, LC, etc. So it's not just them.
• Their story for me feels like Dora the explorer, and NiCO just doesn't strike me at all as a serious threat.
• The way they were balanced just wasn't good (NiCO started off like S1 Dragunov, Marie Rose is still in my eyes a waste of time, and Honoka becoming a grappler just makes no sense in my eyes considering the toolset she has already).
• Lastly, they also just fit the aspect of mashy wonky playstyles that's un-engaging and boring to play as and to play against.

Even w/ my own personal criticisms about them, I don't think they are what ruins DOA let alone fighting games in general. Also, we have to take into account that they are really popular and they are grabbing attention, which in a way does benefit the game as it's getting buzz. But if I had to say characters that "ruin fighting games" its characters like Leroy and Fahkumram. But even by that, people still want a season 5 of Tekken, for whatever reason.

However, I'll leave this to everyone to discuss. I feel overall what ruins fighting games are bigger issues that are not talked about enough in all the FG's, which include bad online, lackluster modes, asinine story, bad character designs, un-engaging gameplay, bad balancing, un-engaging interaction between dev's and community, tedious rank system, no punishment w/ hackers and pluggers, etc. After that, whether a character ruins a fighting game, that's for anyone else to decide.

 

[KasumiLover]

No, they don't have the power to ruin the DOA fighting game as far as their designs go, fighting games have always had designs in their games of similar nature like Kula in KOF, Talim and Amy in SC and Sakura in street fighter, but those games don't really get flak because the girls behave more mature and carry themselves alot more endearingly than Marie and Honoka do, who act more like children. I think the story focusing on them and basically shoving the ninjas to the side and other more important characters kinda ruined the 6 story but that's a given since Marie and Honoka are the most popular currently. As long as Japanese devs are gonna be making the more popular fighting games, there's always gonna be characters like Honoka and Marie who pander to that demographic, it's just about how they're executed and compared to a Lili, Amy, or Talim, their execution isn't really one that's taken seriously.

The only things that can ruin a fighting game imo is just balancing in general, Leroy and Fahk could be fixed easily if they just would have properly balanced them and fixed them up but they're handling them with kiddy gloves because they know if they just outright nerf them majorly that's gonna anger the players who main them. And I don't think Honoka and Marie really give the game any real buzz, at least not anymore. It's mainly in X3 since you hardly see anyone really use Honoka or Marie since they're deemed "bad" even tho Marie is one of the safest characters and has good combo damage and defensive tools and Honoka has everything but range, but there's characters like Kasumi and Hayabusa who can basically do what they do better than them so they're overshadowed.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Well, that entirely depends. DOA6’s story was ass scat, naturally. The fact that 95% of it was “Hey, Let’s Go Babysit Honoka!” pretty much made that statement clear. It didn’t really leave a good impression to anyone that even bothered to play the mode. Back in DOA5U, Marie’s debut was seen to some as a breath of fresh air (due to the big titty stereotype that the game carried). She was trending all over social media (gave rise to a lot of memes and TN shade at Sweden due to the controversial DOAD situation). Being the servant of Helena was also an interesting aspect, even though TN didn't cover certain things in the story yet such as how the two met. Her fighting style and gameplay was well suited for the character. If there was anything negative downside, it would likely be the personality KT gave her (ex: Crying, being Whiney, Immarute, etc.). Did Marie ruing DOA as a whole? Not exactly.

As for Honoka? Eh...I’d rather let someone else talk about her.

 

[human013]

Can anyone even point out what exactly it is that Marie and Honoka ruined? Actual things that can be supported and not things people created in their minds like how 95% of the story was about them?

 

[uln]

I agree that "contributing" would fit, but I'm not even sure if that's the right way to put it. I'd say that the focus switched once Honoka was revealed.

Like you said, it seems that Xtreme is being put first over the main stay now where as DOA4 and down, the DOA series was the main while the Xtreme series was less supported.

I, too don't like Honoka as a total design either tbh. I feel that it is a lazy design but obviously I am the minority as she's become a favorite of the community. I see her as just an uninspired spin on her father's original quirk (Raidou can copy any technique he sees once). Honoka just seems like an excuse to make another female character. I also feel that she doesn't really offer anything to the lore either. In 6, her and Marie weirdly become one of the main focuses and essentially do nothing. Marie cries and Honoka is just a clumsy damsel in distress. Same with NiCO, outside of her experiments, she has no real reason of being there either. She basically just gets beat up by the whole cast and brings back people lol. The entire post-Itagaki storyline to me became a huge mess, especially after the retcons from Dimensions that it now follows after.