Character development *Future patch discussion*
- Thread starter MajesticBlue
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MajesticBlue
Active Member
Another thing to think about is even though we no longer get high counter revision on Izuna, chances are he can get a guaranteed CB! If not very close to it. That part of his frame data is a little foggy for me atm. I can't remember how much advantage 4F+K gives you . Chances are we can get retarded damage off it anyways. Also need to check if 4F+K interacts with walls..
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
Even if not, 214P into shoho does crazy damage by itself with ceiling. CB won't add that much more.
cip
Member
4F+K guarantees 33P, but not really anything else and does not wall bounce ever.
What do you mean with guaranteed CB?
MajesticBlue
Active Member
214P has to be spaced perfect or else it wall splats. Also the revision resets so 2 extra hits or so could add up.
The reason I asked about 4F+K is so you can do an Izuna with their back to the wall and get. Izuna 4F+K, since 214P will not work there. In open ground I am wondering if we can Izuna 214P 4F+K CB_Shoho_juggle_PB. I don't know if that is enough to put them in a guaranteed CB. I never really remember how many frames a stun is when they don't SE (only how fast they can get out) so I kinda really don't know what can connect into what.
Edit: So they can just block the P+K then? Bummer. Still 4F+K is one more guaranteed hit.
The reason I asked about 4F+K is so you can do an Izuna with their back to the wall and get. Izuna 4F+K, since 214P will not work there. In open ground I am wondering if we can Izuna 214P 4F+K CB_Shoho_juggle_PB. I don't know if that is enough to put them in a guaranteed CB. I never really remember how many frames a stun is when they don't SE (only how fast they can get out) so I kinda really don't know what can connect into what.
Edit: So they can just block the P+K then? Bummer. Still 4F+K is one more guaranteed hit.
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
Ya still get that shoho for DAT damage, it's not a big loss imo.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
We did have guaranteed CB on heavy weights though. Just saying lol. Izuna 214p Shoho working on everybody is pretty nice though. Chances are if you have a powerblow the best option is still Izuna power blow though.
cip
Member
To the best of my knowledge, Izuna 214P can't be followed-up with anything if there isn't a ceiling. Also, you can't follow up a 214 P with a 4F+K, and neither a 4F+K with a CB, or can you? I think all this can be held with a critical hold. I also don't get how you can do a power blow after a Shoho?!
I'm just confused, don't wanna sound condescending or anything
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Yeah, I wasn't very clear. Sorry. By open ground I meant in the middle of a stage with ceilings.
I am gonna turn the game on and find out a few things.
4F+K does cause a wall splat so that idea is out the window.
214P 4F+K should be guaranteed.(214P gives plus 34 unholdable sitdown, and 4F+K is only 22 frames.) This will only hit if there are no walls nearby though. For around 142 damage with juggle and walls. Izuna 214P shoho is 131. Izuna PB is 140.
Also I used Tekken notation with the CB_Shoho_Juggle_PB. The _ means or. I like to use it since you can say a lot of options or mixups at once. I am kinda used to people not following that, I really should get better about it but I think all fighters should use it.
Another thing Is normal Izuna into qcbP into 4F+K does put them in max threshold for a CB. The thing is they can block the CB. If Ryu got any new sitdown stuns chances are he could have a guaranteed CB on everybody on a normal ceiling Izuna.
Hope I cleared some of it up at least. I have been known to not make much sense hahahah.
Edit. I thought 4F+K was a real sitdown stun that just sucked due to slow escape. It turns out even if they don't SE they can hold moves that are 14 frames or slower. So even with the SE glitch 4F+K is pretty worthless. So yeah, anything with 4F+K isn't reliable.
I am gonna turn the game on and find out a few things.
4F+K does cause a wall splat so that idea is out the window.
214P 4F+K should be guaranteed.(214P gives plus 34 unholdable sitdown, and 4F+K is only 22 frames.) This will only hit if there are no walls nearby though. For around 142 damage with juggle and walls. Izuna 214P shoho is 131. Izuna PB is 140.
Also I used Tekken notation with the CB_Shoho_Juggle_PB. The _ means or. I like to use it since you can say a lot of options or mixups at once. I am kinda used to people not following that, I really should get better about it but I think all fighters should use it.
Another thing Is normal Izuna into qcbP into 4F+K does put them in max threshold for a CB. The thing is they can block the CB. If Ryu got any new sitdown stuns chances are he could have a guaranteed CB on everybody on a normal ceiling Izuna.
Hope I cleared some of it up at least. I have been known to not make much sense hahahah.
Edit. I thought 4F+K was a real sitdown stun that just sucked due to slow escape. It turns out even if they don't SE they can hold moves that are 14 frames or slower. So even with the SE glitch 4F+K is pretty worthless. So yeah, anything with 4F+K isn't reliable.
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
Maybe 9k would work? It gives a sitdown stun now I believe.
cip
Member
No, it doesn't
It causes a ground splat (if that's the term) in certain conditions as in the Izuna ceiling combo you mentioned, which can't be followed up with anything.Unfortunately, it is not
Actually, 33P is guaranteed after 4F+K for a full juggle, which makes 4F+K a really good move, since it also is safe on block.
GeMster
New Member
I'm just trying this but it doesn't work if you set stagger escape to fastest. You have +18 and the move takes 18 frames to execute.
It's probably not very likely that someone can escape that fast (especially in the first rounds), but it's not guaranteed.
If you have your opponent against a wall you can do 4H+K > 6KK > 41236T / PP4PK. That is guaranteed and pretty good I think. Out in the open I'd try to continue the stun from 4H+K with 6P, 66P and go from there/bait holds etc.
Edit: I just realized there's the stagger glitch lol. Forget what I said for now
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Unless the properties of 4F+K was changed in the patch, at least pre patch the move does cause a wall splat. You get a free wall combo if it connects near the wall. There is no sitdown.
Shoho is the same speed or slower then 4F+K. How can Shoho be guraranteed off of 214P but not 4F+K? 214P gives you 30+ frames you can't hold and 4F+K is only 22 frames or so If I remember.
If 33P is guaranteed off of 4F+K, that means that they changed all the propeties of this move in the patch. Since like I said earlier, it was a sitdown stun but holds come out on frame 14 even without SE. With SE you can pretty much hold anything.
Maybe Team Ninja really messed up the patch notes then. We have major conflicting information lol.
The Stagger escape glitch removes the ability to shake/struggle out of stuns. Aka slow escape or SE.
Shoho is the same speed or slower then 4F+K. How can Shoho be guraranteed off of 214P but not 4F+K? 214P gives you 30+ frames you can't hold and 4F+K is only 22 frames or so If I remember.
If 33P is guaranteed off of 4F+K, that means that they changed all the propeties of this move in the patch. Since like I said earlier, it was a sitdown stun but holds come out on frame 14 even without SE. With SE you can pretty much hold anything.
Maybe Team Ninja really messed up the patch notes then. We have major conflicting information lol.
The Stagger escape glitch removes the ability to shake/struggle out of stuns. Aka slow escape or SE.
cip
Member
4F+K was changed in the last patch. The notes read: "4H+K: changed motion recovery from 28 to 22F, removed wall blow back."
Though if the stagger escape is glitched, I feel Shoho won't be guaranteed after 214P for very long
Shoho is 23F and 4F+K is 22, yet still when I test this in training mode, both me and the AI can crit hold 4F+K after 214P but not the Shoho. Can you hop into the game and test this yourself? I don't think I'm messing this up.
Though if the stagger escape is glitched, I feel Shoho won't be guaranteed after 214P for very long
