MajesticBlue
Active Member
I feel that in Doa 5 Ryu has undergone a half thought out transformation. So I was curious what others had to say and how they veiw him a a character. My intention is to identify his character and fortify his strength and weakness. In the process creating a dynamic character with tools that make sense and a solid game plan.
So what really is Ryu now? What were they going for? (Mixed grappler seems about right but if he was where are all of his grappler perks? I haven't tested it but does his air grab ender do that much more then his old 8KK to be considered better or a buff?) Also he lacks stuns and has very limited strings. Not to mention lacking in the mid department. So how can we build on this and try and make suggestions based on his design? I have put this thread off for a while so I figured I might as well just go for it. If we are all gonna make suggestion for the patch (That may or may not be listened to. For all I know they have the patch done as of now and have yet to release it, *cough Waiting for the Vita version cough*) we should at least consider everything.
In my mind based on his tools I see him as a counter hit character. He has all this frame advantage if he can manage to set up a guard break, yet he has nothing scary enough to keep people in check. Depending on how they want to build him they want to build him they can incorporate grappler tools as well. Whatever they choose, they just need to give him a solid gameplan. This can be done mulitple ways but here are some options I see. We don't need crazy buffs or nothing. Just stuff that makes him a functional character.
Grappler: Given his lack of speed they could choose to just give him a few small changes and add a few tools. I think giving him an OH would be really nice. It is one option to make his guard breaks a little scarier. Also I think they should consider giving knock down that would normaly guarantee a ground throw. Now, we don't have a ground throw....that is fine (since we are a hybrid) but giving him the option to force tech at least gives him the chance to keep up pressure.
Move tweaks
6P: This needs to be his main counter hit tool. Depending on the properties determines how you balance it. If you want it to only stun on counter hit it needs to be safe. If you want it to stun on normal hit I still think it could be safe depending on his other options. It would be his main setup option really. (The move was safe and stunned on normal and counter hit in doad. I really don't think it was broken but if the move stuns on normal hit being unsafe isn't that bad.)
3P: This move needs a better hitbox. It is pretty much a special high. Even if it is just a little better....It just feels kinda off. Imo at least.
2K: This lost it's properties on the water. Depending on other options I think that bringing back the old stun (at least in the water) would be good.
Regarding lows. I think Ryu needs a low option that stuns so he can start up. I see a few options, all of them would be overkill so he only needs one really. Every option Ryu has that is low either is borderline unsafe on normal or gives him a very small stun.
4P2P: Stun on normal hit, I think this used to stun like it stuns in the water now.This would be a great option but very powerful combined with 4PK. With this we can make them think twice about our punch strings
1KP: Few options here. They can return it to the way it was in Doa 4 or maybe even make it a nautral combo. If they choose to do nothing at the very least IT SHOULD BE SAFE. It is sooo telegraphed, I see no reason why it shouldn't be safe again. If they make it a nautral combo or Doa 4 style then it could be unsafe on block.
Ongyoin: To be honest I really am not sure about how to fix this. It would be nice if we could just forget about it and leave it for being tricky. Maybe add a fast unsafe mid that gives a stun. Other then making his Ongyoin moves faster or his traps bigger..a fast mid is really all I can see making it useful. A low crush could help maybe.
Izuna holds: His best option shouldn't be to do random advanced holds in hopes of scoring some damage. If they buff him and give him some better tools I see no reason they can't just tone this
down.
Crush system: low crushes don't seem to work very well anymore. ( I think they should work but whatever, not everybody has to agree) If they tweak things here he would be better off. Just something to keep in mind.
So what is his weakness? His string game is lacking still for the most part and other then his new stuns he still is very limited in his options. He also lacks mids and is pretty slow. Pretty crushable as well it feels like.
Final thoughts: I am sure I missed some stuff and might continue to edit this but yeah, it would be nice if every character in the game could be fleshed out and unique/logical. I will say it again he DOES NOT NEED every option or buff. He just needs to to have a legit game plan. TN should just think about what he does and needs to do to win and make sure his conditions follow a logical pattern. Chances are the way I approach balance is overkill. At the very least give him some more options to make people guess.
TLDR
What buffs do you think he needs? If they give him new tools what type of character should he be/become?
So what really is Ryu now? What were they going for? (Mixed grappler seems about right but if he was where are all of his grappler perks? I haven't tested it but does his air grab ender do that much more then his old 8KK to be considered better or a buff?) Also he lacks stuns and has very limited strings. Not to mention lacking in the mid department. So how can we build on this and try and make suggestions based on his design? I have put this thread off for a while so I figured I might as well just go for it. If we are all gonna make suggestion for the patch (That may or may not be listened to. For all I know they have the patch done as of now and have yet to release it, *cough Waiting for the Vita version cough*) we should at least consider everything.
In my mind based on his tools I see him as a counter hit character. He has all this frame advantage if he can manage to set up a guard break, yet he has nothing scary enough to keep people in check. Depending on how they want to build him they want to build him they can incorporate grappler tools as well. Whatever they choose, they just need to give him a solid gameplan. This can be done mulitple ways but here are some options I see. We don't need crazy buffs or nothing. Just stuff that makes him a functional character.
Grappler: Given his lack of speed they could choose to just give him a few small changes and add a few tools. I think giving him an OH would be really nice. It is one option to make his guard breaks a little scarier. Also I think they should consider giving knock down that would normaly guarantee a ground throw. Now, we don't have a ground throw....that is fine (since we are a hybrid) but giving him the option to force tech at least gives him the chance to keep up pressure.
Move tweaks
6P: This needs to be his main counter hit tool. Depending on the properties determines how you balance it. If you want it to only stun on counter hit it needs to be safe. If you want it to stun on normal hit I still think it could be safe depending on his other options. It would be his main setup option really. (The move was safe and stunned on normal and counter hit in doad. I really don't think it was broken but if the move stuns on normal hit being unsafe isn't that bad.)
3P: This move needs a better hitbox. It is pretty much a special high. Even if it is just a little better....It just feels kinda off. Imo at least.
2K: This lost it's properties on the water. Depending on other options I think that bringing back the old stun (at least in the water) would be good.
Regarding lows. I think Ryu needs a low option that stuns so he can start up. I see a few options, all of them would be overkill so he only needs one really. Every option Ryu has that is low either is borderline unsafe on normal or gives him a very small stun.
4P2P: Stun on normal hit, I think this used to stun like it stuns in the water now.This would be a great option but very powerful combined with 4PK. With this we can make them think twice about our punch strings
1KP: Few options here. They can return it to the way it was in Doa 4 or maybe even make it a nautral combo. If they choose to do nothing at the very least IT SHOULD BE SAFE. It is sooo telegraphed, I see no reason why it shouldn't be safe again. If they make it a nautral combo or Doa 4 style then it could be unsafe on block.
Ongyoin: To be honest I really am not sure about how to fix this. It would be nice if we could just forget about it and leave it for being tricky. Maybe add a fast unsafe mid that gives a stun. Other then making his Ongyoin moves faster or his traps bigger..a fast mid is really all I can see making it useful. A low crush could help maybe.
Izuna holds: His best option shouldn't be to do random advanced holds in hopes of scoring some damage. If they buff him and give him some better tools I see no reason they can't just tone this
down.
Crush system: low crushes don't seem to work very well anymore. ( I think they should work but whatever, not everybody has to agree) If they tweak things here he would be better off. Just something to keep in mind.
So what is his weakness? His string game is lacking still for the most part and other then his new stuns he still is very limited in his options. He also lacks mids and is pretty slow. Pretty crushable as well it feels like.
Final thoughts: I am sure I missed some stuff and might continue to edit this but yeah, it would be nice if every character in the game could be fleshed out and unique/logical. I will say it again he DOES NOT NEED every option or buff. He just needs to to have a legit game plan. TN should just think about what he does and needs to do to win and make sure his conditions follow a logical pattern. Chances are the way I approach balance is overkill. At the very least give him some more options to make people guess.
TLDR
What buffs do you think he needs? If they give him new tools what type of character should he be/become?
