Call me ungrateful

[Rikuto]

Shimbori left Team Ninja because he was being taken advantage of, overworked, and used as a scapegoat for the failure of others (both above, and below). He was also promoted into a position (producer) he had no desire to be in.

He gave you the best DOA game you ever received from a competitive standpoint. He wasn't some talentless hack. Despite his director credit on 6, he was barely involved on the design level. It was effectively a training job for Nakamura to move up the ladder. But since Shimbori has the credit, does the sole responsibility lie with him? Not really, considering he was promoted AGAINST HIS WILL. You can't just force somebody into a position they don't want to be in and then blame them for everything that goes wrong. That is why he left. If anything, the blame goes to Hayashi for creating the situation without understanding his employees.


Was Shimbori completely without fault here? No, he still made some bad calls on situations he was completely aware of. Was he aware of most of the bad situations? Based on our conversations with him, not really no. He was pretty disconnected from things due to his producer duties and other projects he was on, and he couldn't answer most of the questions I asked him simply due to lack of knowledge about a particular subject. When I would have talks with him during his DOA 5 tenure, it was a completely different experience.

Now I'm aware a lot of you fellas are frustrated about where things ended up... but to pin it all on Shimbori is the ignorant answer. You simply have no idea what kind of shitshow was going on in that office, and how utterly impossible that project was from the very start. If you don't put your key players in the right positions, failure is inevitable.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Shimbori left Team Ninja because he was being taken advantage of, overworked, and used as a scapegoat for the failure of others (both above, and below). He was also promoted into a position (producer) he had no desire to be in.

He gave you the best DOA game you ever received from a competitive standpoint. He wasn't some talentless hack. Despite his director credit on 6, he was barely involved on the design level. It was effectively a training job for Nakamura to move up the ladder. But since Shimbori has the credit, does the sole responsibility lie with him? Not really, considering he was promoted AGAINST HIS WILL. You can't just force somebody into a position they don't want to be in and then blame them for everything that goes wrong. That is why he left. If anything, the blame goes to Hayashi for creating the situation without understanding his employees.


Was Shimbori completely without fault here? No, he still made some bad calls on situations he was completely aware of. Was he aware of most of the bad situations? Based on our conversations with him, not really no. He was pretty disconnected from things due to his producer duties and other projects he was on, and he couldn't answer most of the questions I asked him simply due to lack of knowledge about a particular subject. When I would have talks with him during his DOA 5 tenure, it was a completely different experience.

Now I'm aware a lot of you fellas are frustrated about where things ended up... but to pin it all on Shimbori is the ignorant answer. You simply have no idea what kind of shitshow was going on in that office, and how utterly impossible that project was from the very start. If you don't put your key players in the right positions, failure is inevitable.

Best post by far.

Years from now people somehow are still going to blame Shimbori for who knows why, while the guy is calmly chilling in a new work place free from the shackles from the shenanigans of DOA issues. He had to get out of there.

 

[NightAntilli]

I wouldn't say the core mechanics are broken, it's just the critical stun game is jarring to new players since when you're in a stun that's long enough to combo from, you're thrown in a guess to escape situation and must hold or defend properly which can be difficult, so they tried to add a way to simplify it but made the BH too annoying and constant since it breaks the flow of the match, and BBs are pretty much rewarding on hit and block and aren't really punishable. They could get the core mehanics right if they say down and actually thought of ways to do it, I don't think people are just gonna settle for the beach games since the fighting game itself still has a strong playerbase

I mean... Considering the amount of focus they placed on DLC costumes over pretty much everything else, I'd say they already placed their bet on the looks aspect over the gameplay aspect, which are respectively the equivalents of the Xtreme games and the fighting games...

I actually think DOA is the most friendly to new players. You can mash PPPP and get a decent looking combo with most characters. Try that in Tekken or in VF. It's not going to work. DOA has the initial fun factor. New players can mash quite easily and have a good time, among friends. It's when things get competitive that the true issues start, not only for casuals, but also for the competitive players.

I agree with some of the bits yeah.

In DOA the moment you get hit, you gotta guess. It's simply the situation that it was implemented not the way they wanted it. DOA is heavily influenced with Yomi with a bit of VF lite behind it. But most fighting games are a mix with Yomi as an addition, but DOA is full on Yomi for most of the time and the way you get rewarded is completely different to most of the modern fighting games out there, which it's unique in it's own way, but I do feel that there are things that are "too" different to the other ones out there.

I still firmly believe that DOA has to go to the route of implementing throw breaks on NH when you guard so that even new players that pick up won't get blasted by sheer attack shenanigans and having to pure guess between when to block/attack/hold. I don't think they'll ever get rid of DOA general stun play, but there is room for core mechanics improvement, which is what they tried to do albeit more tailored to newer players.

The whole SS situation as an example was the big complaints a lot of people had in the past including myself because DOA's neutral step system is awful. They heard the complaints but didn't implement it the way people thought it would be. Things might of gotten overlooked or they simply didn't have the right moment to do it, who knows, if they had such an issue then they could of just reverted back to the old freestep movement system, which also got botched as well. It's quite the disconnect that people just got tired explaining it to TN so it is what it is.

The guessing game at the core of the mechanics is exactly the problem. What happens if you take that core mechanic to its max potential? You get DOA4. Everything was yomi, and that happened to be the game that was most hated by the competitive community, but most loved by the more casual community. The following titles tried to balance that broken mechanic with more guaranteed setups. Particularly DOA5 went in a better direction with this. But despite being better, it was still not quite perfect. There's always this little uncanny something in the games. And many of the casual DOA4 people hated DOA5, let alone DOA6. DOA is losing its audience, because it's trying to be something it's simply not.

In fact, I think that if DOA4 was not Xbox exclusive, it would have been the most popular DOA game ever. Why? Because DOA is best as a casual fighter, not a competitive one. I know, because I used to be a casual fighter. And you can become good as a casual fighter. DOA4 scratches that itch perfectly.
I always thought fighting games were too hard, until I tried DOA. It was a lot easier to jump into, and it was fancy. You could enjoy it more by watching it without knowing what was really going on. DOA4 was the first game I took "seriously", and I was of the opinion that it was better than all other fighters.
But... When I got the taste of what VF5FS, SFIV, and even Tekken 7 had to offer, I simply came to the conclusion that DOA's core mechanics can never work competitively. When I lose in VF, SF or Tekken, I know what mistake I made or where I went wrong. 9 out of 10 times in DOA, the reason for losing, especially when playing at high levels, is not because of a mistake, but because I guessed incorrectly.

You can say that the other games also include guessing, but it's different. If I make a mistake in VF, the opponent immediately gets a free combo or juggle as a reward. If I make a mistake in DOA, you, as the attacker, now have to guess if the opponent is going to low hold to try and get out of the attack, or is actually trying to hold the attack you're going to do, or is going to do nothing. If you guess wrong, you get punished for it, despite you not making the initial mistake.
And then there's the issue of too many attacks being unsafe, jabs generally being too negative, and the ground game being wonky.

The best thing Team Ninja could do right now is a remaster of DOA4, modernizing the experience not changing the mechanics much, giving a bunch of costume options, release it on everything (PS4/PS5, Xbox One Xbox Series X/S and PC) and see how popular that game gets. Not among the competitive crowd maybe, but the casuals, which is a much larger audience, will eat it up. And really, there is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is a place for Mario Kart and Gran Turismo, there is a place for DOA and VF.

And don't blame Shimbori for not being able to fix what is impossible to fix...

 

[Onryoki]

DOA7 when?

 

[Project Bokuho]

DOA7 when?

After Final Fantasy XX.

 

[HHH816]

remastering past DOA games like 3 or 4 seem unwise cause TN don't want to DOA3 or 4 to compete with DOA6. not profitable

so in the end we have to wait for some sort DOA game by this guy named nakamura. KT AND TN seem to favor him.

 

[KasumiLover]

I mean... Considering the amount of focus they placed on DLC costumes over pretty much everything else, I'd say they already placed their bet on the looks aspect over the gameplay aspect, which are respectively the equivalents of the Xtreme games and the fighting games...

I actually think DOA is the most friendly to new players. You can mash PPPP and get a decent looking combo with most characters. Try that in Tekken or in VF. It's not going to work. DOA has the initial fun factor. New players can mash quite easily and have a good time, among friends. It's when things get competitive that the true issues start, not only for casuals, but also for the competitive players.




The guessing game at the core of the mechanics is exactly the problem. What happens if you take that core mechanic to its max potential? You get DOA4. Everything was yomi, and that happened to be the game that was most hated by the competitive community, but most loved by the more casual community. The following titles tried to balance that broken mechanic with more guaranteed setups. Particularly DOA5 went in a better direction with this. But despite being better, it was still not quite perfect. There's always this little uncanny something in the games. And many of the casual DOA4 people hated DOA5, let alone DOA6. DOA is losing its audience, because it's trying to be something it's simply not.

In fact, I think that if DOA4 was not Xbox exclusive, it would have been the most popular DOA game ever. Why? Because DOA is best as a casual fighter, not a competitive one. I know, because I used to be a casual fighter. And you can become good as a casual fighter. DOA4 scratches that itch perfectly.
I always thought fighting games were too hard, until I tried DOA. It was a lot easier to jump into, and it was fancy. You could enjoy it more by watching it without knowing what was really going on. DOA4 was the first game I took "seriously", and I was of the opinion that it was better than all other fighters.
But... When I got the taste of what VF5FS, SFIV, and even Tekken 7 had to offer, I simply came to the conclusion that DOA's core mechanics can never work competitively. When I lose in VF, SF or Tekken, I know what mistake I made or where I went wrong. 9 out of 10 times in DOA, the reason for losing, especially when playing at high levels, is not because of a mistake, but because I guessed incorrectly.

You can say that the other games also include guessing, but it's different. If I make a mistake in VF, the opponent immediately gets a free combo or juggle as a reward. If I make a mistake in DOA, you, as the attacker, now have to guess if the opponent is going to low hold to try and get out of the attack, or is actually trying to hold the attack you're going to do, or is going to do nothing. If you guess wrong, you get punished for it, despite you not making the initial mistake.
And then there's the issue of too many attacks being unsafe, jabs generally being too negative, and the ground game being wonky.

The best thing Team Ninja could do right now is a remaster of DOA4, modernizing the experience not changing the mechanics much, giving a bunch of costume options, release it on everything (PS4/PS5, Xbox One Xbox Series X/S and PC) and see how popular that game gets. Not among the competitive crowd maybe, but the casuals, which is a much larger audience, will eat it up. And really, there is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is a place for Mario Kart and Gran Turismo, there is a place for DOA and VF.

And don't blame Shimbori for not being able to fix what is impossible to fix...

I disagree actually about the first part. The only characters in current DOA games that really have the more mashy combo strings like that with little else besides P or K mashing are the more mobile characters like Kasumi, Nico, Diego and the other less string manipulating characters, most of the others require directional inputs for full enders.

I'd say SC6 ATM is the more flashy since they really simplified inputs and pressing one button on both weapon strikes does more than what I've seen xD Tekken got better too since alot of their newer characters that aren't designed with the button inputs like everyone pre T7 all function that way too, and honestly all games are gonna wind up with competitive balance in mind, since nowadays everything will wind up being made that way since it's a new era. In the 90s certain things were ok but now with online and tourneys, they have to work a certain way, so a flashy easy to mash string will wind up being disected and designed to work in a balanced way as a result.

And yeah no one really likes doa4 since it was really a slippery mess and it lacked balance since everyone could OH and nothing was really designed to function well in a competitive sense. And regardless if DOA was designed casual, people will still play it seriously so balance still needs to be accounted for. And I don't think the guessing in DOA Is really broken since it's like any other game where you have to guess, DOA just has situations where you must guess right but you still have a chance to stop those situations with holds and other stuff other games don't really have like Tekken.

And that's how the stun game works, momentum can easily change but a good player will know what to do. Low stun holds are annoying but that's what mid launchers and strikes are for and throwing the hold. The stun game has it's drawbacks like anything in DOA if the opponent knows what you like to do when you're at the advantage, just like when you're + and the opponent reads and knows what you're gonna do. The ground game would be perfect if they would have just added back heavy ground attacks, especially since you shouldn't really want to lie on the ground in DOA anyway but 6 took out the risks where the person standing is gonna be afraid to try to tech you since you can lie on the ground for God knows how long xD

And idk if it's only me, but I'd rather have a DOA6 Ultimate with them fixing all the issues we have mentioned and giving us a better experience they could have if they would have taken the time to before. The costumes, unlocks, offline modes, and everything would have been good if they would have listened early and not just copped out when the hair color thing happened. A remaster of 4 and maybe 2U would be great and id buy them but it wouldn't really push the series forward, we'd just see what we already know again about the story and having to regress and take a step back since a remaster likely means they'll revert back to the old system or mostly revert back like how one must do when they go from 6 to LR and vice versa. A Remaster will be good for fun nostalgic times but I would rather play a current DOA that's fine tuned and fixed from 6's vanilla version. Plus it's too soon for a 7 imo, they'll just wind up giving us another new mechanic or system that hasn't been tested or given the long term feedback and then we'll wind up seeing mostly LR play and the older games for another several years which bores me immensely. Casual based or not, DOA still has a strong competitive base and we shouldn't have to settle for casual tastes by reverting to what it was before

 

[NightAntilli]

Ah the story. I don't even care anymore to be honest. The DOA story has become a bad joke. I couldn't even finish DOA6's story mode. They better reboot it.

Going back to the fighting mechanics... In the end, it's all about risk vs reward. That's the core of every fighting game. You take a certain risk with every action that you do. The best players would logically know how to exploit the risk/reward within the mechanics to beat the opponent.

For DOA, the risk is always too high compared to the rewards, because after you successfully won the risk/reward exchange, you're immediately in another risk/reward exchange, when you shouldn't be. And really, everyone that understands the games knows this. There's a reason competitive players have been arguing to keep the stun game as short as possible, and allow high launches to happen without needing to extend stuns. They realize that the stun game is the problem, but nobody wants to get rid of it, because it's what makes DOA unique. I fully understand that argument, and that's exactly why DOA can never become a primarily competitive fighter as it is right now. We want to win a race by attempting to drive a car faster without getting rid of the square wheels. It's simply not going to happen.

But there is one specific thing that enables this guessing and these situations of too much risk. Throws do not connect when the opponent is stunned. That's where pretty much all the guessing comes from. The attacker needs to guess if the defender is going to hold or not. If throws would connect on stun, even if it was with reduced damage, or as a reset, the mechanics of the whole game of DOA would be greatly improved.

And by the way, the triangle system is a lie, because it doesn't take into account that blocking exists, offensive holds exist, nor that stuns exist.
The last one is the most important. Stuns beat throws + offensive holds. Stuns shouldn't beat anything. That is the core problem of the game.

I think the best way for the DOA stun system to be improved while keeping it, is to allow throws (and offensive holds) to connect while the opponent is in stun. When you stun someone, you get a free guaranteed 5 frame throw during that stun. The damage is low, but it's guaranteed. The attacker can use any throw they want, but all other throws except the basic one, are breakable, as long as the defender didn't hold. You as the attacker get the choice to throw, in addition to launching, with the drawback of reduced damage compared to a full on juggle (again, as long as the defender didn't hold). That alone, would greatly improve the mechanics. Rebalancing is going to take quite a bit of work, but hey, something needs to budge for this game to improve.

So in short, during a stun, attacker can get;

• Guaranteed basic throw for reset or very low damage
• Other/advanced throws, which can all be escaped as long as the throw connected during the stun (i.e. defender didn't hold). Damage is moderate. In case defender holds, the throw becomes guaranteed and damage is high.
• Launch that can be held, just like now, for high damage

That still leaves the issue of low holds escaping high launchers and standing throws. That, is quite simple to solve. Low holding should be made impossible if you're in a standing stun. Low holding is only possible either in neutral, or during sitdown/trip/slip stuns. During those sitdown/trip/slip stuns, high holding is impossible (and probably useless anyway), and mid holds are in a crouching state. The characters should get different hold animations for standing mid holds and crouching mid holds. The same throw mechanics described above apply to the crouching state. The basic unbreakable low throw can make the defender stand up, do damage, or throw to the ground, depending on the attacker.
And to balance things out a bit, since the defender cannot do anything against a low attack when in a standing stun, low attacks either immediately reset (think low P), or knocks them down (pretty much all other low attacks) for a very low damage basic combo/juggle.

All this would give players the choice between the safe low damage option, and the risky high damage option. As for the ground game, maybe I can tackle that in another post.

Hey Team Ninja, if you're reading this, and decide to implement this, remember to mention me in the credits.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Ah the story. I don't even care anymore to be honest. The DOA story has become a bad joke. I couldn't even finish DOA6's story mode. They better reboot it.

Going back to the fighting mechanics... In the end, it's all about risk vs reward. That's the core of every fighting game. You take a certain risk with every action that you do. The best players would logically know how to exploit the risk/reward within the mechanics to beat the opponent.

For DOA, the risk is always too high compared to the rewards, because after you successfully won the risk/reward exchange, you're immediately in another risk/reward exchange, when you shouldn't be. And really, everyone that understands the games knows this. There's a reason competitive players have been arguing to keep the stun game as short as possible, and allow high launches to happen without needing to extend stuns. They realize that the stun game is the problem, but nobody wants to get rid of it, because it's what makes DOA unique. I fully understand that argument, and that's exactly why DOA can never become a primarily competitive fighter as it is right now. We want to win a race by attempting to drive a car faster without getting rid of the square wheels. It's simply not going to happen.

But there is one specific thing that enables this guessing and these situations of too much risk. Throws do not connect when the opponent is stunned. That's where pretty much all the guessing comes from. The attacker needs to guess if the defender is going to hold or not. If throws would connect on stun, even if it was with reduced damage, or as a reset, the mechanics of the whole game of DOA would be greatly improved.

And by the way, the triangle system is a lie, because it doesn't take into account that blocking exists, offensive holds exist, nor that stuns exist.
The last one is the most important. Stuns beat throws + offensive holds. Stuns shouldn't beat anything. That is the core problem of the game.

I think the best way for the DOA stun system to be improved while keeping it, is to allow throws (and offensive holds) to connect while the opponent is in stun. When you stun someone, you get a free guaranteed 5 frame throw during that stun. The damage is low, but it's guaranteed. The attacker can use any throw they want, but all other throws except the basic one, are breakable, as long as the defender didn't hold. You as the attacker get the choice to throw, in addition to launching, with the drawback of reduced damage compared to a full on juggle (again, as long as the defender didn't hold). That alone, would greatly improve the mechanics. Rebalancing is going to take quite a bit of work, but hey, something needs to budge for this game to improve.

So in short, during a stun, attacker can get;

• Guaranteed basic throw for reset or very low damage
• Other/advanced throws, which can all be escaped as long as the throw connected during the stun (i.e. defender didn't hold). Damage is moderate. In case defender holds, the throw becomes guaranteed and damage is high.
• Launch that can be held, just like now, for high damage

That still leaves the issue of low holds escaping high launchers and standing throws. That, is quite simple to solve. Low holding should be made impossible if you're in a standing stun. Low holding is only possible either in neutral, or during sitdown/trip/slip stuns. During those sitdown/trip/slip stuns, high holding is impossible (and probably useless anyway), and mid holds are in a crouching state. The characters should get different hold animations for standing mid holds and crouching mid holds. The same throw mechanics described above apply to the crouching state. The basic unbreakable low throw can make the defender stand up, do damage, or throw to the ground, depending on the attacker.
And to balance things out a bit, since the defender cannot do anything against a low attack when in a standing stun, low attacks either immediately reset (think low P), or knocks them down (pretty much all other low attacks) for a very low damage basic combo/juggle.

All this would give players the choice between the safe low damage option, and the risky high damage option. As for the ground game, maybe I can tackle that in another post.

Hey Team Ninja, if you're reading this, and decide to implement this, remember to mention me in the credits.

@Matt Ponton @DestructionBomb

 

[Onryoki]

Ah the story. I don't even care anymore to be honest. The DOA story has become a bad joke. I couldn't even finish DOA6's story mode. They better reboot it.

Going back to the fighting mechanics... In the end, it's all about risk vs reward. That's the core of every fighting game. You take a certain risk with every action that you do. The best players would logically know how to exploit the risk/reward within the mechanics to beat the opponent.

For DOA, the risk is always too high compared to the rewards, because after you successfully won the risk/reward exchange, you're immediately in another risk/reward exchange, when you shouldn't be. And really, everyone that understands the games knows this. There's a reason competitive players have been arguing to keep the stun game as short as possible, and allow high launches to happen without needing to extend stuns. They realize that the stun game is the problem, but nobody wants to get rid of it, because it's what makes DOA unique. I fully understand that argument, and that's exactly why DOA can never become a primarily competitive fighter as it is right now. We want to win a race by attempting to drive a car faster without getting rid of the square wheels. It's simply not going to happen.

But there is one specific thing that enables this guessing and these situations of too much risk. Throws do not connect when the opponent is stunned. That's where pretty much all the guessing comes from. The attacker needs to guess if the defender is going to hold or not. If throws would connect on stun, even if it was with reduced damage, or as a reset, the mechanics of the whole game of DOA would be greatly improved.

And by the way, the triangle system is a lie, because it doesn't take into account that blocking exists, offensive holds exist, nor that stuns exist.
The last one is the most important. Stuns beat throws + offensive holds. Stuns shouldn't beat anything. That is the core problem of the game.

I think the best way for the DOA stun system to be improved while keeping it, is to allow throws (and offensive holds) to connect while the opponent is in stun. When you stun someone, you get a free guaranteed 5 frame throw during that stun. The damage is low, but it's guaranteed. The attacker can use any throw they want, but all other throws except the basic one, are breakable, as long as the defender didn't hold. You as the attacker get the choice to throw, in addition to launching, with the drawback of reduced damage compared to a full on juggle (again, as long as the defender didn't hold). That alone, would greatly improve the mechanics. Rebalancing is going to take quite a bit of work, but hey, something needs to budge for this game to improve.

So in short, during a stun, attacker can get;

• Guaranteed basic throw for reset or very low damage
• Other/advanced throws, which can all be escaped as long as the throw connected during the stun (i.e. defender didn't hold). Damage is moderate. In case defender holds, the throw becomes guaranteed and damage is high.
• Launch that can be held, just like now, for high damage

That still leaves the issue of low holds escaping high launchers and standing throws. That, is quite simple to solve. Low holding should be made impossible if you're in a standing stun. Low holding is only possible either in neutral, or during sitdown/trip/slip stuns. During those sitdown/trip/slip stuns, high holding is impossible (and probably useless anyway), and mid holds are in a crouching state. The characters should get different hold animations for standing mid holds and crouching mid holds. The same throw mechanics described above apply to the crouching state. The basic unbreakable low throw can make the defender stand up, do damage, or throw to the ground, depending on the attacker.
And to balance things out a bit, since the defender cannot do anything against a low attack when in a standing stun, low attacks either immediately reset (think low P), or knocks them down (pretty much all other low attacks) for a very low damage basic combo/juggle.

All this would give players the choice between the safe low damage option, and the risky high damage option. As for the ground game, maybe I can tackle that in another post.

Hey Team Ninja, if you're reading this, and decide to implement this, remember to mention me in the credits.

Guaranteeing a throw when someone is in stun seems meh to me. That just will make everybody do a stun and a guaranteed 5 frame throw all the time, even if it’s for less damage. I do agree that throws and OH’s should be able to connect in stuns, but I don’t think a stun should guarantee a throw. The whole hold system is a guessing game, that’s just part of it.

Low holds escaping high launchers and throws (which are also highs), seems logical to me. Lows beat and evade highs in every FG. Excessive low holding while stunned is a player tendency. Not many people follow up with low in a stun, except when they try to play mind games. The option to hold low should still be available.

Personally, but maybe that’s me not being a competitive player. But I just don’t really think those things would balance it out. Stuns guaranteeing a throw and disabling the fact they can’t low hold and making every low a reset or knockdown don’t really seem like great improvements. But that’s my opinion.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Ok, putting aside how barebones the game was/is and the predatory DLC practice, who's responsible for the dogshit mechanics 6 was blessed with? Did KT ask Shimbori to make the game a braindead scrub inclusive clusterfuck mechanics wise?

Battle director (in charge of game system and balance) was Nakamura. He started with the company in that role with DOA5LR.

 

[Raansu]

Which would explain why LR felt so watered down.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Battle director (in charge of game system and balance) was Nakamura. He started with the company in that role with DOA5LR.

Okay. From now on...The next time somebody asks who Nakamura is, I’m gonna spam this photo on their wall 20 times until it’s fully intact in their brain lma0

 

[Onryoki]

Okay. From now on...The next time somebody asks who Nakamura is, I’m gonna spam this photo on their wall 20 times until it’s fully intact in their brain lma0

Or you could just ignore it and let it find them out theirselves.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Or you could just ignore it and let it find them out theirselves.

Where’s the fun in that? xD