System Buffs/nerfs

[iHajinShinobi]

I'm standing by my last statement but would also like to add that there's 2 pages worth of misinformation going on.

I would strongly suggest we all wait until the game is out. At this point, there's really no influencing them since they're doing most of their QA with their internal testers and it's not really worth the time discussing properties of a press built of a game.

edit: see, I can be a nice guy.

I agree with this.

I agree with a lot of what you say about Momiji overall... but I still think that Mozuna first off the input should grant more damage alone, it's decent in certain situations, but second, she clearly has strings that do a lot more damage.

She does better without 236P+K because her stun > launch damage is just going to be better overall (this is the same case with Ayane). Because the damage you're getting from strikes used in stun > launch > juggle adds up more than the two strikes after 236P+K.

 

[synce]

I agree with death that move is nothing special and neither is Momiji. I only used her for a couple months but as I recall there was no reason to ever go for the izuna. The damage was on par with a stun/launch but you had to risk your input getting screwed up by lag. Don't get me wrong she's a solid character but you can't be high tier in this game without shenanigans

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I agree with death that move is nothing special and neither is Momiji. I only used her for a couple months but as I recall there was no reason to ever go for the izuna. The damage was on par with a stun/launch but you had to risk your input getting screwed up by lag. Don't get me wrong she's a solid character but you can't be high tier in this game without shenanigans

My brain hurts reading this.

 

[J.D.E.]

67/88/98 damage for neutral hit is not weak lol. 67 on it's own, 88 with a ceiling, 98 with wall then ceiling on neutral hit is very good. Especially considering that it's a launch followed up immediately into a combo you have no choice but to eat. This is a very good combo-able move for this character, this doesn't suck at all.

236P+K is going to be a guarantee hit after breakable objects because you're unable to do anything for i45 frames at fastest stagger escape. 236P+K is i25 frames.

Momiji is an extremely underrated character by most because people online play so dumb founded with her.

Having 5 i12 strikes in neutral with a safe 7K at i12 and a base of 38 damage is definitely not just a decent character. Momiji is basically a Feilong with how well her buttons allow her to occupy and control strike ranges. She's very solid.

Snipped.....Thank you. lol. What people don't realize is that Momiji is very good at teaching you the game of DOA as well as help you with the fundamentals of the game. That's why there seems to be no complexity to her like people think. She's meant to be user friendly & a ninja that is easy to get into. She has everything that you need to be successful, just you have to go beyond expectations. She has advanced tools that you can capitalize with. PPP4P for an example works just like Kasumi's PPK into a guaranteed (9K; the player doesn't SE fast enough to get out of it). Her's guarantees a 3P as a launcher or deep stun depending on how you use it.

It's also a good knockdown option that you can use with 8P as a combo for oki. The timing for a decent advantage is strict, but worth learning. 2P takes the wakeup away, but not force up. But it's good for her wall game. Ryujin, Allan Paris & I tested this stuff when they came down to my (pops's) place for casuals ( for the KiT weekend). Also, based off what I've read, here's a reiteration:

It doesn't suck. She gets a CB combo from it with the ceiling AND a wall combo with the ceiling (wall slam & then combo into the ceiling). It's also a guaranteed combo from breakable object. She has a variety of ways that she can use it. Not many know how it is used or how good she is in general. She is a very well-rounded character in all actuality

 

[XZero264]

I only caught the first 50 minutes but Momiji's Izuna input was changed? That's a joke. Her's is probably easier to execute than Ryu's.You actually have to sit in training or go into matches to actively use and learn it. I don't play her but whenever I used out I had no problems with it as opposed to Ryu where I drop it every few attempts. Plus it has knockback so using it next to the wall got you an extra 10, sounds to me like the people who complained had more issues using it because they never felt a rhythm for the attack.

I know a few dedicated Momiji players who have no issue with it because they have a rhythm for the attack.

 

[Brute]

I agree with death that move is nothing special and neither is Momiji. I only used her for a couple months but as I recall there was no reason to ever go for the izuna. The damage was on par with a stun/launch but you had to risk your input getting screwed up by lag. Don't get me wrong she's a solid character but you can't be high tier in this game without shenanigans

You seem to have accidentally written something that makes no sense whatsoever. Consider revision.

I only caught the first 50 minutes but Momiji's Izuna input was changed? That's a joke. Her's is probably easier to execute than Ryu's.You actually have to sit in training or go into matches to actively use and learn it. I don't play her but whenever I used out I had no problems with it as opposed to Ryu where I drop it every few attempts. Plus it has knockback so using it next to the wall got you an extra 10, sounds to me like the people who complained had more issues using it because they never felt a rhythm for the attack.

I know a few dedicated Momiji players who have no issue with it because they have a rhythm for the attack.

I use the exact same execution rhythm for hers that I use for Ryu's. They honestly don't feel any different to me.

I'm just hoping that they don't change Hayabusa's as well. An 82 input is not nearly as fun or satisfying to input as a full 360 spin.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

If they changed Momiji's input, they might as well change both. Makes no difference to me, though.

 

[Rikuto]

If they changed Momiji's input, they might as well change both. Makes no difference to me, though.

Ryu's Izuna involves spinning. Therefore the notation involves spinning.

Momiji's involves flipping the person once (8), and then impaling them straight into the ground (2).

The notations are now appropriate.

 

[Argentus]

Honest question, not meant to flame. Why is simplifying the input a bad thing?

 

[Brute]

Honest question, not meant to flame. Why is simplifying the input a bad thing?

It's boring. Not fun to do.

 

[Prince Adon]

What I want to know is, why is Hayabusa's Izuna (That you get off of many holds and throws) Is being compared to Momiji's? A move that you won't often use anyway, nor is it executed off of a throw, but strike. And less useful than Hayabusa's. Simplifying it is not a bad thing.

 

[Brute]

What I want to know is, why is Hayabusa's Izuna (That you get off of many holds and throws) Is being compared to Momiji's? A move that you won't often use anyway, nor is it executed off of a throw, but strike. And less useful than Hayabusa's. Simplifying it is not a bad thing.

We're talking about Ryu's Shoho Izuna, not the Otoshi, Senko, Rekko or Yoko.

The Shoho is also executed from a strike (the same strike input, in fact) and can no longer be used from holds and throws unless there is a ceiling present.

 

[Prince Adon]

We're talking about Ryu's Shoho Izuna, not the Otoshi, Senko, Rekko or Yoko.

The Shoho is also executed from a strike (the same strike input, in fact) and can no longer be used from holds and throws unless there is a ceiling present.

I know that. I'm pointing out how he got so many situations (not all at all complicated)while she has one with minor usage, which makes simplifying it not bad. Especially if it seems inconsistent.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

In addition; Hayabusa's 91 on neutral with a ceiling and wall combined. Momiji's is 98 on neutral with a wall and ceiling combined.

After Critical Burst in level 3 threshold, Hayabusa and Momiji's are both 138. Hayabusa's is 128 with ceiling, 138 with a ceiling and wall. Momiji's is 138 with a ceiling (236P+K does not wall slam after Critical Burst). With no environmental influence, Hayabusa's is 128 after Critical Burst in level 3 threshold. Momiji's is 117, makes because Hayabusa is stronger in damage all around.

Alone, Hayabusa's is 81 on neutral hit, Momiji's is 67. By themselves Hayabusa will always get better damage which makes sense. With environmental influence, however, Momiji is on par.

Her izuna is very useful and does deal good damage.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

Ryu's Izuna involves spinning. Therefore the notation involves spinning.

Momiji's involves flipping the person once (8), and then impaling them straight into the ground (2).

The notations are now appropriate.

That's a good point.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

In addition; Hayabusa's 91 on neutral with a ceiling and wall combined. Momiji's is 98 on neutral with a wall and ceiling combined.

After Critical Burst in level 3 threshold, Hayabusa and Momiji's are both 138. Hayabusa's is 128 with ceiling, 138 with a ceiling and wall. Momiji's is 138 with a ceiling (236P+K does not wall slam after Critical Burst). With no environmental influence, Hayabusa's is 128 after Critical Burst in level 3 threshold. Momiji's is 117, makes because Hayabusa is stronger in damage all around.

Alone, Hayabusa's is 81 on neutral hit, Momiji's is 67. By themselves Hayabusa will always get better damage which makes sense. With environmental influence, however, Momiji is on par.

Her izuna is very useful and does deal good damage.

I'm gonna elaborate on this because you're just throwing numbers out there without explaining them.

Hayabusa:

Shoho-Izuna:
81 on NH
81 on NH with Ceiling (Hits Walls)

Level 3 Combo:
8P (18), Max Threshold (28), P+K, Shoho-Izuna
126 on NH
126 with Ceiling on NH (Hits Walls)

Momiji:

Junyo-Izuna:
67 on NH
88 on NH with Ceiling (No Walls)

Level 3 Combo:
8P (13), Max Threshold (28) P+K, Junyo-Izuna
107 (+5) on NH
128 (+5) on NH with Ceiling (No Walls)

Here's a more comprehensive comparison of the two moves. Momiji's is pretty useless unless you have a ceiling. Hayabusa's is better in pretty much every way.

 

[Zeo]

I don't think Hajin's arguement was that Momiji's Izuna was comparable to Ryu's but that it was on par with it while using the environment and that it was a useful tool for her independently.

 

[Argentus]

I don't use either Momiji or Ryu, but would it be more comparable to the mount being shared between Leon and Mila? in this case, like Ryu's Izuna, Mila's Mount can be got off a wide variety of situations, whereas like with Leon's Mount, Momiji's Izuna only really has one setup?


Also, tried Ryu's command training. Flat out cannot get most of his alternate izuna inputs to go off. used to be able to just keep spinning the thumbstick for it, but now, I can't do it on the PSN controller, combination of the controller, and I can't get my fingers to move like that. Not a fan of 360 rotation inputs. Even moreso with 2d fighters where it overlaps with other inputs so bad you have to do it in the middle of something else just so it'll read. I don't like when inputs are overly complicated for a single move like that...

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I don't think Hajin's arguement was that Momiji's Izuna was comparable to Ryu's but that it was on par with it while using the environment and that it was a useful tool for her independently.

This exactly.

I'm gonna elaborate on this because you're just throwing numbers out there without explaining them.

Hayabusa:

Shoho-Izuna:
81 on NH
81 on NH with Ceiling (Hits Walls)

Level 3 Combo:
8P (18), Max Threshold (28), P+K, Shoho-Izuna
126 on NH
126 with Ceiling on NH (Hits Walls)

Momiji:

Junyo-Izuna:
67 on NH
88 on NH with Ceiling (No Walls)

Level 3 Combo:
8P (13), Max Threshold (28) P+K, Junyo-Izuna
107 (+5) on NH
128 (+5) on NH with Ceiling (No Walls)

Here's a more comprehensive comparison of the two moves. Momiji's is pretty useless unless you have a ceiling. Hayabusa's is better in pretty much every way.

lol.

If I wanted to take time to make my post look pretty over a simplistic post stating something is on par with something else, I would have done so.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

If I wanted to take time to make my post look pretty over a simplistic post stating something is on par with something else, I would have done so.

Your post was a mess. If you want to get information across, it helps to be coherent.