Characters Blackburry's DOA5LR Tier List

[DestructionBomb]

SS -

S - (In no order)

Everyone else's waifus and males right under here.

---------------------------

Tiers aside, it's his personal list guys.

 

[Radiance]

Phase is debatable; imo I would place her right before Tina in A+ but still higher than Kasumi. It's no question as to why shes up there. High damage and comeback potential, better neutral than kasumi, better mixups. She's seen more often in tournaments for a reason. Other than that, I think it's fine. Will have to watch your video on tiers explaining, but I think bayman is questionable.

 

[TheDragonAwakens]

I am surprised to see Hayabusa being just so close to the top of the list. While he indeed has excellent damage output and environmental game, he has god awful neutral game, horrible mix ups and lows, close to useless pressure tools and a stupid Ongyoin stance where a low is all you need to beat him out of it.

 

[helumi9089]

Phase 4 isn't anywhere lower than S. I don't understand how anyone that's watched the competitive scene for the past 2 years can't see that. You guys look at characters on paper too much. Kasumi isn't that great. This is nothing new. Her best version was vanilla.

Agree, but even in vanilla we barely saw Kasumi players go very far in tournaments. Even in the japanese' community, it was other characters that were dominating, not Kasumi.

If Kasumi were that good, we should have seen her more in the tournaments but actually that's not the case.
It's Phase-4 that's dominating. I can only think of no more than 5 Kasumi players that have ever shown up and gotten good places in tournaments. To name a few:

Uprisingjc from Taiwan, who seems to have been dominating in his community and is probably the most known Kasumi player? I know he also plays multiple characters but in terms of competing in tournaments I've only seen him pick Kasumi. The only exception was when he had to play gehaktbal for the ticket to nec a few years ago in japan and he started with leon.

He had stopped playing for a long time before returning a few days ago according to his latest video clip on his channel, but sadly he's not coming to EVO.

Ky Dragon from France(or other European country?) - don't really know much about him but he made his way into top 16 last year in NEC.

Kwiggle - he's more of a Christie or Phase-4 player although he also plays other characters well. We can see from the past tournaments.
Kwiggle didn't really win much with Kasumi as he did with Phase-4.
Against cali he could hardly win with Kasumi while he could with Christie or Phase-4, same goes for him playing against other top players.

I can't think of any famous Japanese Kasumi players at the moment. Most of them are probably not stronger than the 3 mentioned above.


I also have no idea why people keep saying that Ryu is bad...

 

[UprisingJC]

I'm not arguing again. By mix ups I mean in string ones. Kasumi is better since from like 5K she has 3 different options while Phase only has one besides free cancelling. And Kasumi isn't in the same tier as Rachel or Marie, Kasumi is A tier at the highest, Rachel is low B to mid C at the highest and Marie is mid to low B at the highest or high C at the lowest

If by mix ups you mean your take on the term then Phase is better since her stun game is scarier but string wise Kasumi is better

Saw this post too late. I haven't been to FSD for a long time before I just returned.
I only watched blackberry's saved stream for this tier list and by chance saw what you said.
A bit off-topic but I'd say the so-called "3 differents options" are pointless in her 5K case.

First of all, KK may be the only follow-up people would use as it's highly delayable and has follow-ups such as KKP/KK6K/KK7K that launch her opponent. Her KK has a 16-frame start-up but it can be delayed to be 26 frames and still hit characters trying to retaliate with their i10 jab.

K3K grants her only minor stun(+7~+15) on CH/HCH, while leaves her -5 ON NH and -16 ON BLOCK. I see no reason to use this move.
A comparable case would be Jacky's 6PPP/6PP2K mid/low mix-up.
If 6PPP gets blocked, he's also -16 while it grants him at least +16 on NH, and it causes a crumple stun on CH/HCH. 6PP2K also gives him minor frame advantage on NH, and doesn't cause a knockdown on CH/HCH and he can still connect with his 6_p which can't be slow escaped afterwards.

As for K2K, lots of Kasumi's low strings are either too slow or reactable because of their animations, and they mostly don't grant her much return on hit. K2K is just one of them. Minor frame advantage on NH and no gap is created unlike her 6p2k/4p2k/3p2k on NH, ok fine, but its animation makes itself reactable for her opponent so for most of the time it won't hit and it does a knockdown on CH. Also, as described above, K3K isn't that threatening so you're not forcing your opponent to stay standing and hoping that K2K would hit.

--------------------------------------------------Back to topic--------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, by the way. I'm not the type of person who tends to downplay his/her own main character. I'm just here pointing out some things. Her true strength is about her delayable strings and certain moves that creates a gap on block to make her safer.
Highly delayable: PP(P), 6PK, 3PP, KK
Safe: 33K, 6PK, 4H+K, 3K(If used at a correct distance. Characters who have a longer reach off their 6T can still grab her.)

 

[KasumiLover]

Saw this post too late. I haven't been to FSD for a long time before I just returned.
I only watched blackberry's saved stream for this tier list and by chance saw what you said.
A bit off-topic but I'd say the so-called "3 differents options" are pointless in her 5K case.

First of all, KK may be the only follow-up people would use as it's highly delayable and has follow-ups such as KKP/KK6K/KK7K that launch her opponent. Her KK has a 16-frame start-up but it can be delayed to be 26 frames and still hit characters trying to retaliate with their i10 jab.

K3K grants her only minor stun(+7~+15) on CH/HCH, while leaves her -5 ON NH and -16 ON BLOCK. I see no reason to use this move.
A comparable case would be Jacky's 6PPP/6PP2K mid/low mix-up.
If 6PPP gets blocked, he's also -16 while it grants him at least +16 on NH, and it causes a crumple stun on CH/HCH. 6PP2K also gives him minor frame advantage on NH, and doesn't cause a knockdown on CH/HCH and he can still connect with his 6_p which can't be slow escaped afterwards.

As for K2K, lots of Kasumi's low strings are either too slow or reactable because of their animations, and they mostly don't grant her much return on hit. K2K is just one of them. Minor frame advantage on NH and no gap is created unlike her 6p2k/4p2k/3p2k on NH, ok fine, but its animation makes itself reactable for her opponent so for most of the time it won't hit and it does a knockdown on CH. Also, as described above, K3K isn't that threatening so you're not forcing your opponent to stay standing and hoping that K2K would hit.

--------------------------------------------------Back to topic--------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, by the way. I'm not the type of person who tends to downplay his/her own main character. I'm just here pointing out some things. Her true strength is about her delayable strings and certain moves that creates a gap on block to make her safer.
Highly delayable: PP(P), 6PK, 3PP, KK
Safe: 33K, 6PK, 4H+K, 3K(If used at a correct distance. Characters who have a longer reach off their 6T can still grab her.)

Oh I know all that already xD I'm just making a point tho, even if Kasumi's other follow ups are less useful in some cases, they're still options tho and that's more for your opponent to deal with ultimately. Phase 4 doesn't have that, all she can do from 5K is delay, finish the string, finish the string with delay, or she can free cancel, while Kasumi can do all of that and she has a additional high kick, mid kick, or low to watch out for

 

[Blackburry]

Phase 4 kills you in 2 guesses, and as I've stated MANY times she does not have to use her unsafe strings. The tools that she is using to open you up are rather safe with not much risk attached. 2P=+0 on hit (Are you just going to block a 2p, and if you do who cares?), 66K is a teleportable move that has a safe option which is the throw(no risk). Here is the thing also...you aren't going to just sit back and just guess every delay and free cancel she is going to do, so if she starts a string, and you sit waiting for the punish you're going to eat another mixup or get thrown for 35-40 percent. This is basic DOA, and I shouldn't have to explain it.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Basically in a way Phase 4 plays Tekken and Kasumi plays DOA. The less guesses you need to win, the better.

 

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

A tier list where Ryu is in S tier, I can't wait for the ryu mains to flip out over that one

"Well, uh, if you pay attention to the frame data and examine tournament results you can see clearly that Ryu is not top tier, and I've prepared a 9 page thesis explaining why."

And on it is just the word "Ongyoin" written a 1000 times.