Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
*This will be long so I'm sorry in advance.* (That's what she said!)
Okay I'm not here to say players are bad and that is the sole reason why the game gets such little support (though it has made strides). The reason this game doesn't do as well as other main stream fighters, old school fighters, or even the games that are in the middle is because of a mix of the community and TN.
When making a game there will be people that just utterly hate the game, love the game, and those that hate certain aspects/love certain aspects. With this community though there are two extremes: LOVE and then those that HATE the game.
There is no real middle ground and to be honest there never will be. The community has it's leaders but those guys aren't listened to in the slightest mainly because of the past and the present. They have never gotten respect from those that are "coming up" and that's because a lot of those guys are very disrespectful (notice I didn't say "all"). Not to mention it's hard to share information about the game because of the all so common patch that is popular in this day and age. No one wants to show something that is particularly strong because of that fear. Take note of what Mamba found with Helena (granted that shit was annoying as balls) it wasn't GAME BREAKING to the point it needed to be taken out. Now that is one top player who is done even sharing any of his tech to help the community grow.
This next point which is probably the most valid within this community is the online players vs the offline players. Though this debate hasn't come up as much as in the past it is still a common debate. No matter how often offline players say "It doesn't matter until you do it offline" it still never seems to catch to online players. Now if you just CAN NOT travel no one will hate you for it. No one will make fun of you for it. It is a shame and we wish you could come out to the event. . .we really do. However when you can't travel and you make it your thing to debate about things you will never be a part of is wrong. If you aren't traveling what difference does it make what they do (or don't do) with a patch. Not saying you can't put your input in but if it is something that DIRECTLY effects the game there is no place for you in the conversation especially if you are referring to online.
Any person can travel for a tournament regardless of what they say. Even my friend who works 6 days a week and 12-15 hours a day can still plan to go to something. If you don't have money you can definitely save up to go to ONE event a year if not to play just to see friends and hang out. If that's not your priority then say that but don't put it out there like you just too good to travel. Just own up to the fact you don't have it up there on your list of "things to do".
The last thing I want to say is that a lot of the problems with the games success or lack thereof is because of how TN went about making the game. They were definitely on the right track come E3 but one way or the other just went the crazy person route. Regardless of which group they listened to is irrelevant because they decided to try and just please EVERYONE. It doesn't seem like it but in reality that's what they tried to do and it failed hard.
You can't make a game and try to please everyone. Especially the casuals because unless you specifically tell them they wouldn't know anyway. You can take the super awesome game Smash and use that as an example or even MK. Both games the casual will never notice a change to a specific move or what is beating him. He will mash and play with people who he can beat period. He won't try to better himself because he doesn't care to anyway. He doesn't know any high level techniques, probably doesn't want to know them, and doesn't realize what a set up is.
You can never "fully" please the casual. He either likes the game or he doesn't his mind won't be swayed.
Let's take the new topic at hand for example here : The new SE glitch that is the hot topic for now.
On one hand we're debating how OP it can be because if you get stunned you can potentially get raped. Sounds dangerous but let's talk about the conditions for getting that 90% health damage combo that Sorwah graced us with.
1) Kasumi needs a breakable wall.
2) Unless you get hit with one of her unsafe wall slamming moves she has to stun you then do an attack that knocks you into the wall to break it.
3) You have to not be blocking and/or get hit on CH.
This is just the tip of the iceberg because obviously she has her low kick hold and mid kick hold but that's another level of intrigue.
Next you have people worried about looping sit down stuns
1) You need to be stunned first
2) That means you need to be hit on CH, SS attacked, normal hit stunning attack, etc.
3) Need to not be BLOCKING
What people need to realize is that when you get hit it's now FAIR game. You played the neutral game and you lost at it. It is now time to make a good read and this goes for both parties. With this new "glitch" the offensive player has the advantage in a way that is truly scary. Now the game is fair.
Getting stunned and knowing you have about 2-4 chances to guess out is pretty calming. It doesn't make you make a good read. You don't feel pressured unless you are already nervous. It makes you play reckless and although it seems like you are playing some kind of sick yomi game you aren't. You are playing "who is having the better match/day" game.
TN honestly could save a lot of trouble by leaving that glitch in the game. It seems scary because they don't want to lose their casual base or make the japanese players feel bad by agreeing with the NA players. You can't please everyone though but you can make the game pro one thing or pro another. Games in general (except VF) is casual friendly. DoA was BUILT casual friendly because of the counters. The scrubs will never notice the difference with the stun game. They will realize (eventually) that if they get hit by such n such move they can no longer counter which will be frustrating and "cheap" but they will still play. You know what else they will do. . .start using that dumb shit while making fun of those that use it against them.
Basically TN needs to man up and make a choice going towards ONE side. Either make the game scrubby as balls while hoping for the best or make it more like what the top players want.
Okay I'm not here to say players are bad and that is the sole reason why the game gets such little support (though it has made strides). The reason this game doesn't do as well as other main stream fighters, old school fighters, or even the games that are in the middle is because of a mix of the community and TN.
When making a game there will be people that just utterly hate the game, love the game, and those that hate certain aspects/love certain aspects. With this community though there are two extremes: LOVE and then those that HATE the game.
There is no real middle ground and to be honest there never will be. The community has it's leaders but those guys aren't listened to in the slightest mainly because of the past and the present. They have never gotten respect from those that are "coming up" and that's because a lot of those guys are very disrespectful (notice I didn't say "all"). Not to mention it's hard to share information about the game because of the all so common patch that is popular in this day and age. No one wants to show something that is particularly strong because of that fear. Take note of what Mamba found with Helena (granted that shit was annoying as balls) it wasn't GAME BREAKING to the point it needed to be taken out. Now that is one top player who is done even sharing any of his tech to help the community grow.
This next point which is probably the most valid within this community is the online players vs the offline players. Though this debate hasn't come up as much as in the past it is still a common debate. No matter how often offline players say "It doesn't matter until you do it offline" it still never seems to catch to online players. Now if you just CAN NOT travel no one will hate you for it. No one will make fun of you for it. It is a shame and we wish you could come out to the event. . .we really do. However when you can't travel and you make it your thing to debate about things you will never be a part of is wrong. If you aren't traveling what difference does it make what they do (or don't do) with a patch. Not saying you can't put your input in but if it is something that DIRECTLY effects the game there is no place for you in the conversation especially if you are referring to online.
Any person can travel for a tournament regardless of what they say. Even my friend who works 6 days a week and 12-15 hours a day can still plan to go to something. If you don't have money you can definitely save up to go to ONE event a year if not to play just to see friends and hang out. If that's not your priority then say that but don't put it out there like you just too good to travel. Just own up to the fact you don't have it up there on your list of "things to do".
The last thing I want to say is that a lot of the problems with the games success or lack thereof is because of how TN went about making the game. They were definitely on the right track come E3 but one way or the other just went the crazy person route. Regardless of which group they listened to is irrelevant because they decided to try and just please EVERYONE. It doesn't seem like it but in reality that's what they tried to do and it failed hard.
You can't make a game and try to please everyone. Especially the casuals because unless you specifically tell them they wouldn't know anyway. You can take the super awesome game Smash and use that as an example or even MK. Both games the casual will never notice a change to a specific move or what is beating him. He will mash and play with people who he can beat period. He won't try to better himself because he doesn't care to anyway. He doesn't know any high level techniques, probably doesn't want to know them, and doesn't realize what a set up is.
You can never "fully" please the casual. He either likes the game or he doesn't his mind won't be swayed.
Let's take the new topic at hand for example here : The new SE glitch that is the hot topic for now.
On one hand we're debating how OP it can be because if you get stunned you can potentially get raped. Sounds dangerous but let's talk about the conditions for getting that 90% health damage combo that Sorwah graced us with.
1) Kasumi needs a breakable wall.
2) Unless you get hit with one of her unsafe wall slamming moves she has to stun you then do an attack that knocks you into the wall to break it.
3) You have to not be blocking and/or get hit on CH.
This is just the tip of the iceberg because obviously she has her low kick hold and mid kick hold but that's another level of intrigue.
Next you have people worried about looping sit down stuns
1) You need to be stunned first
2) That means you need to be hit on CH, SS attacked, normal hit stunning attack, etc.
3) Need to not be BLOCKING
What people need to realize is that when you get hit it's now FAIR game. You played the neutral game and you lost at it. It is now time to make a good read and this goes for both parties. With this new "glitch" the offensive player has the advantage in a way that is truly scary. Now the game is fair.
Getting stunned and knowing you have about 2-4 chances to guess out is pretty calming. It doesn't make you make a good read. You don't feel pressured unless you are already nervous. It makes you play reckless and although it seems like you are playing some kind of sick yomi game you aren't. You are playing "who is having the better match/day" game.
TN honestly could save a lot of trouble by leaving that glitch in the game. It seems scary because they don't want to lose their casual base or make the japanese players feel bad by agreeing with the NA players. You can't please everyone though but you can make the game pro one thing or pro another. Games in general (except VF) is casual friendly. DoA was BUILT casual friendly because of the counters. The scrubs will never notice the difference with the stun game. They will realize (eventually) that if they get hit by such n such move they can no longer counter which will be frustrating and "cheap" but they will still play. You know what else they will do. . .start using that dumb shit while making fun of those that use it against them.
Basically TN needs to man up and make a choice going towards ONE side. Either make the game scrubby as balls while hoping for the best or make it more like what the top players want.
