What's new

The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

Allan Paris

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
DR2K said:
I have a feeling a lot of match ups are going to be shaken up after this patch.

Here's my tierlist based on match ups, discussion, personal experience, and tournament results

SS: Character that ignores most if not all match ups, plays by her own set of rules.
Helena

S: Tons of guaranteed set ups, high damage options, superior crishes, safe, or great mobility
Genfu, Jann Lee, Kokoro, Mila, Ayane

A: Generally great tools, but some unfavorable match ups
Kasumi, Leifang, Akira, Sarah, Bayman

B: Solid tools, little guaranteed options, some have low damage and in Rig's case too stance heavy
Pai, Hitomi, Christie, Hayabusa, Rig

C: Little guaranteed, low on safety, generally slow, have more unfavorable match ups
Lisa, Hayate, BradWong, Tina, Zack

D: Generally flawed, long strings make some more vulnrable, Bass is too slow, have even more bad match ups
Eliot, Alpha 152, Bass

F: All their match ups are 0-10, can not compete on any level. Stop trying to pick them.
Ein, Tengu, Spartan, Raidou, Leon, Momji, Rachel, and Rio.
Click to expand...

Tell me some of Kasumi's unfavorable match ups. Also you know nothing about Pai to say she has little guaranteed options. Going by what you've posted about SS tier Jann lee for damn sure belongs in it. Zack is not slow, that's actually something he's got going for him. His speed is nowhere near slow.

Man, the things people post. Oh yeah, don't forget to answer my question on Kasumi. Overall you're list is hilariious to me.

I'll help you out with Pai since you have no clue.

Pai has 3 moves that cause unholdable sit down stuns. 1 is only viable in tag. The other two; P+K and 66H+K are ridiculous. 66H+K is safe and hold resistant and p+K is +1 on block and like 66 h+k causes an unholdable stun. You are getting launched for free if she puts you in the stun.

Pretty much all of her throws guarantee a launcher. But the father and mother of all of them is 33h+p this puts Pai at +50 and you can't SE the frame advantage. Her 24h+P guarantees a juggle every time you're caught in it. The scary part about this throw is that you can't read when it's coming because it can be buffer into her moves that put her in the crouching position. Which is damn near everything. If you're a light weight you lose at least 122 on HCT and 107 for mid weights.

Half of her hold guarantee a launcher and yes the damage is mediocre. However, Pai's strengh is similar to Kasumi but far better because of safety and frame advantage. Pai should working the stun game with 2 different moves allowing unholdable sit down stuns and punishing whiff holds as the opponent tries to guess out of stun. Pai is able to produce ridiculous amounts of damage from attacking and throwing alone. Her holds not granting much is actually well balanced. Although, Pai's holds do allow her to keep up her pressure.

At first I believed her damage output was weak. Then when I learned and did everything for Kasumi, I was able to focus 100% on Pai. Her damage is crazy and the speed at which you will get looped into her BS is crazy. Pai struggles against heavy weights and mainly because of their weight. She has to play the stun game against them a little more to rack up the damage.

I am going to wait for this patch to start with her matchups. I don't know what's going to be changed. I will say this, at the end of the day you all will have Pai at top tier or at least high. Watch what I tell you.

FYI: Unlike the other VF characters. Pai does not pick up frame advantage from her initial pokes. She still picks up just as much fame advantage as them, though. Her pokes on block leave her at neutral which is more than enough for her because of the speed she can attack at. If she hits you on mormal hit then she picks up frame advantage from her pokes.

P is +1
6P is +3
2P is 0
 
Jefffcore

Jefffcore

Well-Known Member
Jann Lee and Lei are better than everyone. THey have superior damage/tools than everyone else, and do less guessing in general.

Helena can't be that high because she has something that other characters have, too.

I'm not really sure if Busa has a match up in his favor outside Bass or Alpha. (Even those are iffy)

Eliot hasn't been EXPOSED, someone just gave you their opinion without any evidence.

Alpha's "throw" is an offensive hold.

Kasumi doesn't need to be super safe to be that high; punishment in DOA is weak.
 
MasterHavik

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
Jefffcore said:
Helena can't be that high because she has something that other characters have, too.

I'm not really sure if Busa has a match up in his favor outside Bass or Alpha. (Even those are iffy)

Eliot hasn't been EXPOSED, someone just gave you their opinion without any evidence.

Alpha's "throw" is an offensive hold.

Kasumi doesn't need to be super safe to be that high; punishment in DOA is weak.
Click to expand...

I'm on the fence about Helena. I still think she sucks.

man..what do you have against Ryu? You have been slamming him everytime I seen you post about him.

You want evidence? I'll give you some. I'm not an Eliot master or anything, but I can tell he's linear to all hell, he is predictable, besides the throw launcher he has he doesn't have solid ways to open you up, his parries don't give anything they're just 50/50s, and he is in DOA 4 hell plays the stun game), and kind of relies on 7P to keep pressure.

I'm talking about B.U.S.T. Jeff, not aegis reflector for Alpha.

well if that is true,,,then why the VF characters so high?(they're super safe) If that is true then Zack should be high, since being super safe is not needed to be high. These are your words btw jeff.

Punishment in this game is not weak. Yeah some characters don't have the best throw damage, but people like Zack, Tina , Rig, Eliot, Bass, Bayman, and Mila have ways to make it hurt. So in my opinion punishment matters.....A LOT..it's not universal like other fights, but it still matters.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Allan Paris said:
Tell me some of Kasumi's unfavorable match ups. Also you know nothing about Pai to say she has little guaranteed options. Going by what you've posted about SS tier Jann lee for damn sure belongs in it. Zack is not slow, that's actually something he's got going for him. His speed is nowhere near slow.

Man, the things people post. Oh yeah, don't forget to answer my question on Kasumi. Overall you're list is hilariious to me.

I'll help you out with Pai since you have no clue.

Pai has 3 moves that cause unholdable sit down stuns. 1 is only viable in tag. The other two; P+K and 66H+K are ridiculous. 66H+K is safe and hold resistant and p+K is +1 on block and like 66 h+k causes an unholdable stun. You are getting launched for free if she puts you in the stun.

Pretty much all of her throws guarantee a launcher. But the father and mother of all of them is 33h+p this puts Pai at +50 and you can't SE the frame advantage. Her 24h+P guarantees a juggle every time you're caught in it. The scary part about this throw is that you can't read when it's coming because it can be buffer into her moves that put her in the crouching position. Which is damn near everything. If you're a light weight you lose at least 122 on HCT and 107 for mid weights.

Half of her hold guarantee a launcher and yes the damage is mediocre. However, Pai's strengh is similar to Kasumi but far better because of safety and frame advantage. Pai should working the stun game with 2 different moves allowing unholdable sit down stuns and punishing whiff holds as the opponent tries to guess out of stun. Pai is able to produce ridiculous amounts of damage from attacking and throwing alone. Her holds not granting much is actually well balanced. Although, Pai's holds do allow her to keep up her pressure.

At first I believed her damage output was weak. Then when I learned and did everything for Kasumi, I was able to focus 100% on Pai. Her damage is crazy and the speed at which you will get looped into her BS is crazy. Pai struggles against heavy weights and mainly because of their weight. She has to play the stun game against them a little more to rack up the damage.

I am going to wait for this patch to start with her matchups. I don't know what's going to be changed. I will say this, at the end of the day you all will have Pai at top tier or at least high. Watch what I tell you.

FYI: Unlike the other VF characters. Pai does not pick up frame advantage from her initial pokes. She still picks up just as much fame advantage as them, though. Her pokes on block leave her at neutral which is more than enough for her because of the speed she can attack at. If she hits you on mormal hit then she picks up frame advantage from her pokes.

P is +1
6P is +3
2P is 0
Click to expand...

My descriptions are just a generalizations, they aren't all encompassing for every single character in the rank, sorry for the mix up.

I say Kasumi slightly loses to characters with superior spacing tools, her spacing tools are rather limited or increadibly risky. Ayane is a bad match up for her for example.

Pai doesn't do much damage, her holds are especially crippling since she has little guaranteed from them. It seems like the player has to work a shit ton harder to win with her. She's far from being bad or anything and when she's on the offense she's as you've put it, "a bully".

Jefffcore said:
Jann Lee and Lei are better than everyone. THey have superior damage/tools than everyone else, and do less guessing in general.

Helena can't be that high because she has something that other characters have, too.

Eliot hasn't been EXPOSED, someone just gave you their opinion without any evidence.
.
Click to expand...

Eh, no one has it at the level Helena has it. She can do it from any height, sacrifices little no damage, and her mix up ability at frame advantage is ludicrous.

Rabies plays a mean Eliot, outside of guessing well he doesn't really have much going for him. And his long unsafe non natural combo string are incredibly predictable.
 
NightAntilli

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
Jefffcore said:
Jann Lee and Lei are better than everyone. THey have superior damage/tools than everyone else, and do less guessing in general.
Click to expand...
Although Leifang is definitely up there, she's still not close to what Jann Lee is.

Jann Lee is faster both at close and far range.
Jann Lee can get guaranteed bursts from either :1::P::K: or :F+K: , while Leifang gets zero guaranteed bursts.
Jann Lee can use dragon gunner at any given time, while Leifang's similar OH comes from her risky Unshu stance, and she gets less advantage too (not that she needs it).
Jann Lee has way superior sidestepping moves
Jann Lee's movement is faster and more flexible allowing for easier spacing


Things that Leifang has the advantage in are..
Parries
Sabakis
Mid kick hold
Her :4::F+P: when her back is against the wall
Better crushes

Leifang's tools are a lot harder to use properly, since they involve a much higher risk.
 
Jefffcore

Jefffcore

Well-Known Member
Lei doesn't need a burst to get her damage, she has better crushing ability to make up the speed, and her 66T is an OH...
 
Allan Paris

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
DR2K said:
I say Kasumi slightly loses to characters with superior spacing tools, her spacing tools are rather limited or increadibly risky. Ayane is a bad match up for her for example.

Pai doesn't do much damage, her holds are especially crippling since she has little guaranteed from them. It seems like the player has to work a shit ton harder to win with her. She's far from being bad or anything and when she's on the offense she's as you've put it, "a bully".
Click to expand...

With Kasumi vs Ayane that is a 5-5 match up and it's been like that since doa4. That match up solely rely on spacing or lack of. If ayane cannot keep Kasumi out, ayane loses the match up. Ayane has nothing to deal with Kasumi's speed in close quarters. If Kasumi cannot get in ayane, Kasumi loses to the plethora of ranged options ayane has at her disposal.

Don't believe the hype that ayane or any other character that can space well will keep out characters all day. When played at their peak, the Kasumi player knows how to get in and stay long enough to win and the Ayane player knows how to keep Kasumi out long enough to win. Which ever player works their angle the best wins. So you have a 5-5 match up their. That's not unfavorable for Kasumi, sir, but rather fair. What's another character you think she an unfavorable match up with?

You should listen, Pai's damage is dead on. 66H+K is also a whiff punisher. On CH you're put in a sit down stun, free launcher, I take about a quarter of your life with me. You hold standing or crouching, I take over a quarter (107-130 pts) of your life with me. You try to be a smart ass and not hold out of stun to avoid being thrown, P+K or 66H+K into an unholdable stun, I take a quarter of your life with me. This not a theory, you are welcome to play me at any time.

Oh yeah, like Kasumi, Pai is relaunching you back into a wall after a wall splat. So, I slam you into a wall on anything but NH, I take a quarter to over a quarter of your life with me.

Her damage is dumb and she really doesn't have to work too hard for it, not in the slightest. Unless you're playing against a heavy weight, there shouldn't be an issue getting to Pai's damage.

Half her holds either guarantee a hit which extends the stun, where she is Jesus Christ at. Or gives her frame advantage, enough to make players think twice about hitting a button. The other half you're getting launched for free.
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Allan Paris said:
With Kasumi vs Ayane that is a 5-5 match up and it's been like that since doa4. That match up solely rely on spacing or lack of. If ayane cannot keep Kasumi out, ayane loses the match up. Ayane has nothing to deal with Kasumi's speed in close quarters. If Kasumi cannot get in ayane, Kasumi loses to the plethora of ranged options ayane has at her disposal.
Click to expand...

This is not 100% truth. Ayane's jab will beat Kasumi's mids. Kasumi's jab will beat Ayane's jab and her mids."All" of Ayane's Hi crushes will counter hit Kasumi's jab and highs in general. Kasumi's mids will beat Ayane's Hi crushes but her mids will lose to Ayane's jab. Both of their low jabs will tie.

Kasumi doesn't have it up close against Ayane, entirely. And Ayane doesn't have at range against Kasumi, entirely. This match-up is completely fair for the simple that fact both of these girls have the exact tools needed to combat one another. Whichever character is being the most patient during the match is the one that will win. And both require absolute patience.

I've played this match-up over 1500+ times to come to the realization that this is probably the most balanced match-up between the two of them in this game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
Top