The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
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AngryWorm
Active Member
Hitomi vs Mila is probably the only match up I can really comment much on, but I'd say it's in Hitomi's favor. She can space Mila very well with her pokes, and even with Mila's 3HK has the option to keep decent pressure on her with 3k plus her other go to strings. Tomi has plenty of good options to work around SS-tackle such as 6pk, 2f+p (I think that's the input anyway), almost so much that it's a non-issue. 2p is a great low risk/good reward tool in this match up. Once Hitomi gets a life lead she can make it very difficult for Mila to work her way back into the match.
I wrote more about this match up in the Hitomi thread a while ago.
I wrote more about this match up in the Hitomi thread a while ago.
Ayane vs Brad Wong: This is a fight that Ayane wins. When Ayane gets the space, she has the range game all day. Get Brad to commit to the turtling, he pretty much whiffs his attacks.
The worst things Ayane could do is try to rushdown and run at him. Brad has a crazy ground game, but Ayane has some moves that'll stop that dead in his tracks (Crush Moves). After that, Ayane has more overall options on offense although she's a defensive character. She can hit you from low-to-high or high-to-low. Either way, this is her fight to win.
You have really buy into his gimmicks in order to lose this bout besides run after him.
The worst things Ayane could do is try to rushdown and run at him. Brad has a crazy ground game, but Ayane has some moves that'll stop that dead in his tracks (Crush Moves). After that, Ayane has more overall options on offense although she's a defensive character. She can hit you from low-to-high or high-to-low. Either way, this is her fight to win.
You have really buy into his gimmicks in order to lose this bout besides run after him.
AngryWorm
Active Member
When did I say Ayane was free? I know I said I didn't like her, but I don't like any of the ninjas. Hitomi/Ayane is probably a 5-5 match up, though I would have to play Xdest more in order to confidently say that. Perhaps he can chyme in his two cents.
I'd say Hitomi/Mila is 5.5/4.5 for Hitomi.
I'd say Hitomi/Mila is 5.5/4.5 for Hitomi.
Legend2021
Member
Shouldn't we go to our own respective character threads and discuss the matchups there and then post all the results here when we have a full understand of each matchup for our character. It just seems like the information is going to be scatter around again if we do it this way.
Scornwell
Active Member
Wadd'ya think, Mr. Wah? I figured this space could be used once the match-ups were agreed upon in the sub forums for discussion and comparison...
Legend2021
Member
it just saves searching for the match-up info and having to go through post about how someone thinks a character is top tier just because they don't like playing against them.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
At range you use 66k and 136p. If I block the first hit and react properly I either punish the punch or crush the kicks. 6pk is just a string, and her low sweep is just a low, everyone has them. Mila's 6p is faster, and her low sweep is better, so the same could be said about Mila dealing with Hitomi's SSP (It crushes Mids). Mila's 2p is exactly the same as Hitomi's. Everything else Mila has is better than Hitomi: her damage, she has an OH, she's faster (Not by a lot), she gets to CB the same, her 6T is better, she has better crushes, and her pseudo is better.
I'm sorry, but Hitomi just doesn't have what Mila has.
that would be a lot of jumping around for players of different characters.
Jabs are all the same damage, too. Christie and Kasumi's are the same.
Lei Fang has every tool in the game available to her, Gen doesn't. The only reason I think she's below Jann is because he has an easier time using his.
Scornwell
Active Member
True.
But I can't see the current model of "describe matchup/here's why I disagree/on to next matchup" getting very far.
It may be miles more civil than the first iteration of this thread, but I don't see an end-goal here with a topic this vague.
AngryWorm
Active Member
Hitomi has a lot of at range options and, with a reasonable footsies/baiting game can be problematic for Mila. 46p, 126 p, 66k, 3k. She has a good variety of long ranged pokes , and some good distance moves that can keep good range and pressure if needed. Her power strikes are good, but you need to mix them up with her other various strings to be effective. She can be very effective at range vs Mila.
Saying everything about Mila is better is a very disagreeable statement. Hitomi has a significantly better poking game, approach game, a punch parry, a beastly mid kick hold and great tracking moves. I don't know about the combo potential, but I feel Hitomi can match Mila's output there while having stronger 'base' moves. I understand the value of SSP for Hitomi in this match up but I don't think it's a crutch for her. I don't see how Mila can really generate much against Hitomi unless the Hitomi player screws up.
Make Mila chase you and learn footsies and it's easily winnable for Hitomi
Saying everything about Mila is better is a very disagreeable statement. Hitomi has a significantly better poking game, approach game, a punch parry, a beastly mid kick hold and great tracking moves. I don't know about the combo potential, but I feel Hitomi can match Mila's output there while having stronger 'base' moves. I understand the value of SSP for Hitomi in this match up but I don't think it's a crutch for her. I don't see how Mila can really generate much against Hitomi unless the Hitomi player screws up.
Make Mila chase you and learn footsies and it's easily winnable for Hitomi
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
At range 3k isn't going to do anything to Mila if her 4k and 4H+K have more range, leaving you with usafe options. Mila also has MUCH faster movement. Realistically I can low sweep both 46p and 66k, if I'm ok risking getting hit by 136p (which like I said is unsafe). None of Mila's ranged options are unsafe and she can shut down all Hitomi's if she waits. Her SST even stops all of those except the 66k2k string.
Mila's Mid Punch hold and Low kick hold both guarantee a ground throw, and her low punch hold lets me put you into pseudo.
That last paragraph is all subject to the game's mechanics; anyone can screw up at any time. If the Mila player is equally as good at footsies the Mila player should have an easier time because she has better tools. If one character has to guess more, by default the other is better.
Honestly, I think Hitomi is Mila's easiest matchup because I can kill all her strings without even needing to guess.
AngryWorm
Active Member
Realistically and in application are very different. I don't think I've ever been stuffed trying to do 6pk by any of her lows, and 66k will usually beat it out. 126 is unsafe but her run in version is I believe. Hitomi's range game is better than Mila's, the two mid kicks do not shut down Hitomi's striking game as much as you're suggesting they do. SST is almost a non-issue in this match up since Hitomi has a lot of great tracking moves.
Again, Hitomi should make Mila come after her which she really can't do it well at all. Once she has the life lead Hitomi can just turtle. I feel like we're just repeating ourselves at this point though.
Nope. Just a difference of opinion.
Again, Hitomi should make Mila come after her which she really can't do it well at all. Once she has the life lead Hitomi can just turtle. I feel like we're just repeating ourselves at this point though.
Nope. Just a difference of opinion.
AngryWorm
Active Member
If you want to make this about you and me feel free to toss me a PM and we can go over our extensive offline match history which is generally in my favor. Otherwise these types of comments aren't very constructive, nor is this the thread to bring it up.
I stand by my points.
7:3...Nice that people are actually discussing match ups, but could you elaborate please? ie/ when you say the Ayane/Wong match up favours Ayane, by how much? 6:4, 7:3?
Also, @ AngryWorm, didn't you say Ayane's were free, so there's another matchup, and that one's 10:0
Legend2021
Member
But doing match ups as they are brought up is even more jumping around. Instead of having to go through a bunch of pages searching for a match up that is lodge in between people's own opinion they could just look at a post to see which pages their characters match ups are on. Then after everyone's match ups are done the pages after can be for discussion.
Example:
Akira- page 2
Alpha- page 3
Etc...
Zack - page blah.
Every page after - discussion.
Seems better than:
Hitomi vs Ayane - page 3
Discussion
Kasumi vs Ryu -page 4
Discussion
Kokoro vs Alpha - page 4
Etc..
Until we have another 90 pages filled with opinions instead of match ups .
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Worm, your biggest problem when you create these match ups is you base everything on who you play and not the characters actual tools. Mila outclasses Hitomi in every single category. Mila has better throws, she has better damage, she's faster, she actually gets guaranteed setups, she has better crushes, has two running attacks that guard breaks, has a better SS, has a better force tech game (even better pseud force techs),everything Hitomi does, Mila does 10x better. Being at range is not a disadvantage for Mila either. Hitomi on the other hand only has one single safe gap closer, the rest require strings that have to be finished for her to be safe and her best gap closer from DoA4 isn't safe in DoA5 (66f+k). And to top it off Mila's 3f+k destroys anything Hitomi does. It will smash Hitomi mid string, EVERY TIME.
Ooobe
Active Member
Mr. Wah built a lovely match up table (linked in first post) to put the results of the discussion in, so if/when the discussion produces results, they should be easy to find.