Helena Buff Request Thread

[Omegan Eckhart]

Hey guys, I would like a thread that I can tweet to Team Ninja about how to improve Helena if they are planning on buffing her. I want to keep it clean so they can look at each post and clearly see what people think are her current problems and how we would like her improved. Most of the threads are a mess to look at so don't don't have discussions here just offer your personal opinions.

Please everyone post so there is enough info for them to look over. If there is some consensus between players maybe they will consider what everyone is agreeing on. Remember keep it clear, no one will want to read it if it's an eyesore.

Current Issues:

1. Too unsafe.
2. No frame advantage.
3. 3in1's are too negative on block.
4. BKO duck recovers too slow.

Idea's for improvement:

1. Make 3in1's 0 or + on block.
2. Return safe moves from DOA4.
3. BKO 4PK should raise air born opponents slightly higher so PPK can connect more often instead of having to resort to 9K all the time.
4. Make 44PPP useful, this will never land on an opponent who isn't stunned and if they are stunned the last hit crosses the stun threshold and causes knockdown.
5. Give her an attack that puts her into BT with + frames on block, (4P maybe?) similar to how Ayane has 66KK4.
6. Remove the additional recovery from her BKO duck. It was an unnecessary nerf seeing as there are many moves she cannot duck now.

I would be okay with her being grossly unsafe if she gets + frames on her 3in1's. If not, giving her safe moves back and making her 3in1's 0 on block would be make her more solid. I'm not bothered about a damage buff honestly.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

More guard crushes ! More highs ! More flowing hair !

 

[MCDOA]

These, I feel are important:
01: Her 7P should come out faster, it feels pretty useless right now.
02: A quick backturn that doesn't involve a P or K.
03: Two advanced holds, one that leaves her in BKO, and one that turns her back to her opponent.
04: A CB while in BKO, her K would be great for that, since it makes her stand up again, and is fast.
05: I also agree that her 3-in-one moves need to at least be 0 on block.

Others, not important, but something to think about:
01: A low hitting string while in BKO, I feel like she's too predictable in that stance.
02: A standing combo throw, or a better throw to punish wiffed counters.
03: Another move that forces guard break.

That's all I have right now.

 

[Perfect Legend]

she definitely doesn't need any buffs

 

[DrDogg]

she definitely doesn't need any buffs

Thanks for that in-depth explanation.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

These, I feel are important:
01: Her 7P should come out faster, it feels pretty useless right now.
02: A quick backturn that doesn't involve a P or K.
03: Two advanced holds, one that leaves her in BKO, and one that turns her back to her opponent.
04: A CB while in BKO, her K would be great for that, since it makes her stand up again, and is fast.
05: I also agree that her 3-in-one moves need to at least be 0 on block.

Others, not important, but something to think about:
01: A low hitting string while in BKO, I feel like she's too predictable in that stance.
02: A standing combo throw, or a better throw to punish wiffed counters.
03: Another move that forces guard break.

That's all I have right now.

Yeah totally agree with all of this. She needs some more assessable guard breaks along with some some sit down stuns, and maybe faster jabs.

 

[TRI Mike]

Many of Hele's moves are realistically punishable with throws like the Izuna Otoshi. This is wrong.

 

[DR2K]

she definitely doesn't need any buffs

Yeah that would make her too simple.

Frame advantage into stance would be nice and an overall damage increase.

Return moves like pp2kp(less of a balance thing since handslaps rule) and her 3.1 sidestep move.

 

[Perfect Legend]

The new forced tech shit Mamba found pretty much merits my case of why she doesn't need any buffs. She can constantly keep pressure and never have to deal with invincible wake up kicks. The only thing she needs is for the life bar to not be on 300 life (the old largest but new normal) we should be playing on 240 life.

 

[TRI Mike]

What about all her attacks being -9 to -11¿ What about losing PP2KP¿ What about her being much slower¿ less evasive¿ She does need a ton of buffs.

 

[DR2K]

What about all her attacks being -9 to -11¿ What about losing PP2KP¿ What about her being much slower¿ less evasive¿ She does need a ton of buffs.

Yeah she has her "force" tech kind of, but a considerably nerfed version from DOA4. She also has to use a handslap ender which does even less damage to an already low damage character. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Helena players are just exploiting players with shitty defenses.

She doesn't need a ton of buffs, just some logical ones designed around her strengths. Buff bokuho ducks recovery, increase her damage out a little, and fix up some of her unsafe moves. It won't make her a god tier character.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I'm not sure she really needs her PP2PK back.

 

[DR2K]

I'm not sure she really needs her PP2PK back.

Would it break the character? Would it give her a competitive advantage? Would it alter her match ups signifigantly?

To be quite honest she just feels like she's lacking without, not balance wise, but as a Helena player the feeling is off.

 

[TRI Mike]

PP2KP is necessary in my opinion.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Oh really? Well at first I felt lost without it, but since September, I'm quite used with not using it (236pkp is my new baby), but I can understand the frustration and I wouldn't mind seing it back. ^_^

But I doubt Team Ninja will ever bring it back, they think it's "cheap" and it's doesn't help her "individuality".

I started to tweet that thread to TN's twitter; I hope it's not too early.

"If there is some consensus between players maybe they will consider what everyone is agreeing on."
From what people said, what would you update your OP with Omegan ? Where is the consensus ?

I made a quick video for the fun. Tell me if you like it or not. I kind of like the animation. That hold is my favourite. I just love how she make the ennemy fly as if she were Leon or something.

 

[DrDogg]

The new forced tech shit Mamba found pretty much merits my case of why she doesn't need any buffs. She can constantly keep pressure and never have to deal with invincible wake up kicks. The only thing she needs is for the life bar to not be on 300 life (the old largest but new normal) we should be playing on 240 life.

Okay... then the opponent guesses right one time and Helena loses due to low damage output and extreme lack of safety.

Some people have been discussing playing on lower life settings, but then the characters that have high damage output are suddenly ridiculous, and the nerf to holds is no longer relevant. I'd rather give some characters (like Helena) a damage buff and call it a day.

 

[Einzelkind]

Of course it's a suggestion for a BKO low throw.

I like the idea, but I'd rather have a low throw from her backturned stance, which needs a buff more than her BKO in my opinion. I'd also love to have her BT 6p+k (the jumping handslaps) from her forward facing stance as well (maybe 9p+k as the input). I don't really miss pp2kp at this point. I'd also like one or two additional tracking moves in BKO. BKO 2k is the only one that does from her stance.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Oh really? Well at first I felt lost without it, but since September, I'm quite used with not using it (236pkp is my new baby), but I can understand the frustration and I wouldn't mind seing it back. ^_^

But I doubt Team Ninja will ever bring it back, they think it's "cheap" and it's doesn't help her "individuality".

I started to tweet that thread to TN's twitter; I hope it's not too early.

"If there is some consensus between players maybe they will consider what everyone is agreeing on."
From what people said, what would you update your OP with Omegan ? Where is the consensus ?

I made a quick video for the fun. Tell me if you like it or not. I kind of like the animation. That hold is my favourite. I just love how she make the ennemy fly as if she were Leon or something.

Of course it's a suggestion for a BKO low throw.

Sounds like a good idea because people in DOA5 are weird. Once helena does he 2H+K they like to low hold afterwards, so this would be useful. People tend to low hold once one low hit comes out. Omegan, maybe you should compile all the ideas you like and edit your first post with them.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Sounds like a good idea because people in DOA5 are weird. Once helena does he 2H+K they like to low hold afterwards, so this would be useful. People tend to low hold once one low hit comes out. Omegan, maybe you should compile all the ideas you like and edit your first post with them.

The idea was to have a list of different peoples opinions so they could see what people thought without having to dig through loads of dialogue, that isn't going to happen sadly. I don't think this thread is going to be useful. Oh and Helena doesn't need a low throw from BKO as she has a vast array of mid launchers to punish people for low countering.