i have received zero reports of this (maybe kula?) besides kasumi players complaining without trying. Remember i buffed 7kp damage to make up for no close hit.
40% flat juggle scaling makes close hit bound the most damage in the handful of situations where it wasn't in the stock game, and strike damage is stored as a signed integer so it's by far one of the easiest things and therefore going to be one of the last things to adjust.
if i can kill close-hit bounds i'll look again at doing 40% flat i guess but a lot of the damage values are designed around scaling like nico 9pkk so that would probably be more work than just flipping the switch.
Alrighty! Got an extended play in and I have some good (Very very subjective) notes for what I feel the characters I studied need to get a more optimal experience. These are going to be quite unbiased and I'm going to spoiler tag them so that the post doesn't get so big, but I've spent a couple days thinking about these propositions and I hope y'all enjoy reading them:
I have Brad, Eliot, Raidou left to find ideas for I will do that after a break from the lab.
Combo opportunites. Increase the bounce in stun / counter hit on all bouncing attacks. Not so big as DOA4, but more like DOA5LR.
Kasumi is still good in this game, but I think she could use some changes regarding her counter hit game and bringing some use to some moves in combos. I like that 6PK doesn't deep stun on CH, but here are some proposals that I thought of to make her more fun in 6++:
Make P+KP her new bound. This would be great for combos that don't take the PP7K Hoshinpo route, and now that 7KP doesn't bound, she can get similar damage.
Include DOA4 PP_6KK and make it GB +3 on block.
Make K(3K) / PK(3K) knockdown on hit with new Oki properties.
Include DOA4 33KK (Current Hoshinpo KK) as 236KK - More details on this will come soon.
Increase bounce on 66K(P) to allow for 4PKK / 236KK to connect for combo.
Change launch properties on Hoshinpo K / 4PK / (New) 236K in stun to allow for P strings to connect.
Tina in DOA6++ is pretty much perfect, I'd just love to see some DOA4 strings make it in:
Bring back DOA4 PPPP and make it PP4PP with -9 on block instead of -6
Bring back DOA4 PP4PK / PP4PK and have it retain it's DOA6 44PK / 44P2K properties. This could be PP3PK / PP3P2K.
Make 46P GB +3 on block.
Add tracking to H+K.
Make 66K Fatal Stun on Crouching Hit CH.
Remove the DOA6 _3P and keep the 33P blender in. Fuck it. Among some other propositions that she may or may not need:
Remove SS Bokuho. We discussed that and we know it's scary (broken, problematic) as fuck.
Add DOA4 8PP and make it 8PP+K.
Make 214P Fatal Sit Down Stun on NH and CH, but remove the string opportunities and make it -13 on block.,
Make 66P Fatal Sit Down Stun on Crouching Hit CH.
Make 44PP(P) Bounce on the last hit.
Increase bounce on P+KP.
Make H+K2 +2 on block.
Add DOA4 BT 4PPP and make it BT 4PPP+K.
I just think Bass would be an amazing guard break killing machine. I'll just be proposing that some of his guard breaks go to being plus on block and to bring back 4T to DOA6 Vanilla properties:
Make 66P -2 GB on block.
Make 66P+K +3 GB on block.
Make 6P+KP +3 GB on block.
Make 1P+K +8 GB on block.
Make 46P +3 GB on block.
Make 66P bounce on CH.
Bring 4T back to DOA6 Vanilla launch properties.
I think Bayman needs a bound in 6++ now that his Fatal Rush string is gone. His throw breaks should return the game to neutral +/-0 instead of giving Bayman the disadvantage when he's the one who initiated the grab. Also some moves from Leon could be useful to add to his kit for mix and string variety. Basically I want to overhaul Bayman so that he's not gutter trash in 6++. Here goes:
Speed up 9P+K to i25 instead of i27.
Give him Honoka's PPPK.
Make PP2P_P +6 GB on block.
Speed up P(6P) and revert it back to DOA5 properties.
Bring back DOA5 P6PK and remove DOA6 P6PK.
Speed up 6P(P) to DOA5 properties.
Bring back DOA4 7PP. And remove DOA6 7P as there's no critical bursts in this game and the move is too slow. Also make this new DOA4 7P a mid.
Replace 8PP with Leon's DOA5LR 8PPP. Make 8P bound on stun overload.
Give him Leon's PP2K.
Give him Leon's 46P and make it +4 GB on block. New input: 46P+K
Give him Leon's 3PK. (This is just adding the animation onto the existing 3P)
Give him Leon's 2H+KK. New input: 1H+KK.
Give him Leon's PPP. New input: PP4P.
Give him Leon's 6PPK. New input: 6PP_K.
Make 3H+K -5 on block instead of -10. There's no need for his only engage to me throw punishable. I think it should deep stun on NH and CH instead of knockdown like Marie Rose's version of the same move so that he can get shit going.
Increase launch height on 236P so that 9P can successfully hit, or lower the hitbox on 9P so that it can bound enemies closer to the ground.
Make 9P3P+K (Tank Roll) 0 on block.
Make KK Bound on airborne opponents.
Make 3K have more advantage on CH so that it's possible for Tank Roll P to hit if the enemy doesn't hold it.
Quality of life changes.
Remove SS Dragon Stance.
Change _8P/_2P/_8K/_2K inputs to 88P/22P etc. for more consistency.
Make 4PP_6 -2 on block instead of -7.
Bring back DOA5 KKK and make DOA6 KKK have KK6K inputs.
Bring back DOA4 46P and make it GB +3 on block.
Reduce pushback on Close Hit 236P so that he can get follow ups.
Reduce pushback on K4K on NH.
Combo of the life changes.
Make KH+K bound on airbourne opponents, however removing bounce from counter hit / stun and reverting it to NH knockdown properties on all hits.
Make 1P(K) low launch on counter hit / in stun.
Add in DOA4 PP2KK, giving current PP2K a PP2H+K input.
Add in PP2KP (New string which would be a mix of PP and 1KP) with Unshu capabilities.
Bring back DOA4 8KKP, allowing it to hit completely on airborne opponents.
Quality of life changes + some DOA4 strings, with some potential swaps with Ein moves.
Replace PP6PK with Ein's PP6PK with new Oki.
Add DOA4 P6PPP. New Input: P6PP+KP.
Add DOA4 P6PPK. New Input: P6PP+KK.
Change KK / PKK to DOA5LR Ein's KK slide knockdown on hit.
Give her Ein's While Standing K.
Universal Fatal Stun + some stun game propositions with some new bounders.
Make 64P a Fatal Stun on NH, but slow it down to i24 and -14 instead of i18 and -10.
Make KK bound on airborne opponents.
Make Rondo K 0 on block.
Make 6K i15 and -11 on block instead of i17 and -9.
Add tracking to 9P.
Add tracking to 6P+K.
Make 4H+K +1 GB on block.
Include BT function after 4H+K / 3KK / KKK
Bring back FS string in the form of 9P+KP+KP+KP+K. Might have to find a work around to bring this animation back without it fatal stunning.
Remove SS Roll
Include Manual BT with 7P+K input.
Oki changes. An amazing job was done with Honoka.
Add new Oki to 6K2K.
Heichu transitions and advantage changes.
Add Heichu after 6KP. New input: 6KPP+K.
Add Heichu grab after 6KP. New input: 6KPT.
Make 4K / Heichu K -6 instead of -11 on block.
Add new Oki to 4K.
Add bound to 2P+K.
Add new Oki to 6PPP.
1PT / 3PT - Make +13 on hit to guarantee
Oki stuff.
Add new Oki to 6PP(P) / 3PP(P) / PP6PP(P).
I think if we want Zack to fair decently in this game where everyone is a killer in their own ways, Zack needs his stun game starters back, and some stuff to make him a little scarier in the normal game.
Bring back DOA4 236PP, DOA5 236P8 (Funky Roll), 236PK. This DOA6 236P close hit serves no purpose in this new combo meta, as his damage is the same with or without a close hit ender. This is a good high tracking punch string that allows him to get the ball rolling.
Give 4H+K FS properties on NH and CH and make it i26 and -13 instead of i21 and -4.
4K to return to DOA5 Vanilla frames (+1 without stance, +3 in Ducking) Again, if Honoka can have this, so can Zack.
Make 6K Stun +13 on NH.
Make 7P4 +1 on block.
Put DOA5 8K into Ducking stance as Ducking H+K to replace Ducking S. May it FS against sidestepping opponents.
i'm not proofreading this shit or thinking very hard about it but here's my first impressions. good work. i'll DM about guardbreaks later.
juggle bounce refloats are kinda interesting. I want to keep some alternatives to bounds on the table. maybe i'll do a private test build with everybody on patch oki or everybody on some juggle bounce since that kind of find/replace edit is easy to do.
p+k p might be kinda low-hitting for a juggle bound... actually i'm gonna go think about a "no (stainding) mids get to juggle bound" 'rule' to go with "no low refloats" after I finish my first impressions here and don't have a clear idea of who that would affect or what highs they have that could juggle-bound instead. and remember giving her an easy bound is giving a 9 frame pressure character access to a forcetech OS.
i've got some suggestions for old strings coming in, 236kk sounds interesting, the bounce on 66k·p is probably impacted by juggle scaling and i'm reluctant to play in that space because we might get a system change on that sort of thing and i'd hate to do work twice when there's so much to be doing.
Tina
sounds pretty good, dunno about the GB though, manipulating stuns is pretty clunky.
a bunch of those sidestep cancels were speculative. going to try out a universal sidestep crouchdash like 8S 33 and maybe that makes bokuho less egregious there, but it's a free and safe remove if not.
44ppp going to be a juggle bound
doa 4 stuff sounds reasonable if the animations exist
eww stun manipulation. i take the point but i'm limited to the guarbreak animations that exist and their durations. i'm not prepared to take on that puzzle just yet.
66p, maybe also ppp
4T, idk he has guaranteed pickup or patch 1.19 oki out of that... does he really need 4T 6h+k bound 3p 6kp patch oki?
Bayman
leon (and honoka) moves straight up don't exist unless bayman has them already in some other capacity. I could make current animations have simliar hit properties but that would be quite a lot of work and we'd still be limited by the existing available animations....
...so maybe
a bunch of those changes are multi-axis and therefore dangerous because of unintended side effects so i can't say what's reasonable or workable and not at a glance.
somebody wanted 88/22 sidestep inputs and i'd like to try that out instead of being accurate to these doa 4 moves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
kkk/kk6k is a new mixup, those are dangerous.
old 46p might be awkwad with while rising 46p, but i could put a different button on something
236p - no also that hit-reaction is there by mistake from when i was experimenting with ceilign hits, idk how it got in.
k4k ehhhh that's already a very delayable string P there
leifang
i'm too tired, the other four seem reasonable
ein moves don't exist etc etc
old strings sure
i'd need an example of the slide knockdown animation in 6 to invoke or extra work getting the ID from 5
marie rose why is interpol taking so long?
honoka
that would look weird because of the animation but i like the mechanic being on that move. maybe there's a better hit reaction to use, i think most or all of the 1.19 knockdowns are linear moves
kokoro
work
work, and a mixup
-8 maybe
gross, but so is the current reaction
maybe, but not if she gets it off of her worst launcher nor if i fuck up mid bounds. this is a better candidate for juggle bounce, but since it bounces in stun i don't know how interesting that is.
nah it's already like that on cr stun. seems kinda boring, although i think the air hit should have way more knockback on it. i'll look into that.
manipulating advantage on a throw is sus. i'll revisit that if i make a bunch of counter-hit upgrades when I'm doing the raijin's final form and think about giving everybody upgrades like hayabusa's grab.
maybes all around
lisa
sure
if i can find it
changing speed like that is sus and it's too fast as is. i'm trying to turn back on conditional FS vs low hold though
maybe but that logic is questionable. zack has way more reach and way more shit out of ducking.
12 frame mid NH stun? lmao who else has one?
sway is supposed to be bait it doesn't make sense for bait strings to be plus
sounds good. old 8k anim even exists and i probably have the ID noted
no
usual caveats of that GB issue
i'm not proofreading this shit or thinking very hard about it but here's my first impressions. good work. i'll DM about guardbreaks later.
juggle bounce refloats are kinda interesting. I want to keep some alternatives to bounds on the table. maybe i'll do a private test build with everybody on patch oki or everybody on some juggle bounce since that kind of find/replace edit is easy to do.
p+k p might be kinda low-hitting for a juggle bound... actually i'm gonna go think about a "no (stainding) mids get to juggle bound" 'rule' to go with "no low refloats" after I finish my first impressions here and don't have a clear idea of who that would affect or what highs they have that could juggle-bound instead. and remember giving her an easy bound is giving a 9 frame pressure character access to a forcetech OS.
i've got some suggestions for old strings coming in, 236kk sounds interesting, the bounce on 66k·p is probably impacted by juggle scaling and i'm reluctant to play in that space because we might get a system change on that sort of thing and i'd hate to do work twice when there's so much to be doing.
Tina
sounds pretty good, dunno about the GB though, manipulating stuns is pretty clunky.
a bunch of those sidestep cancels were speculative. going to try out a universal sidestep crouchdash like 8S 33 and maybe that makes bokuho less egregious there, but it's a free and safe remove if not.
44ppp going to be a juggle bound
doa 4 stuff sounds reasonable if the animations exist
eww stun manipulation. i take the point but i'm limited to the guarbreak animations that exist and their durations. i'm not prepared to take on that puzzle just yet.
66p, maybe also ppp
4T, idk he has guaranteed pickup or patch 1.19 oki out of that... does he really need 4T 6h+k bound 3p 6kp patch oki?
Bayman
leon (and honoka) moves straight up don't exist unless bayman has them already in some other capacity. I could make current animations have simliar hit properties but that would be quite a lot of work and we'd still be limited by the existing available animations....
...so maybe
a bunch of those changes are multi-axis and therefore dangerous because of unintended side effects so i can't say what's reasonable or workable and not at a glance.
somebody wanted 88/22 sidestep inputs and i'd like to try that out instead of being accurate to these doa 4 moves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
kkk/kk6k is a new mixup, those are dangerous.
old 46p might be awkwad with while rising 46p, but i could put a different button on something
236p - no also that hit-reaction is there by mistake from when i was experimenting with ceilign hits, idk how it got in.
k4k ehhhh that's already a very delayable string P there
leifang
i'm too tired, the other four seem reasonable
ein moves don't exist etc etc
old strings sure
i'd need an example of the slide knockdown animation in 6 to invoke or extra work getting the ID from 5
marie rose why is interpol taking so long?
honoka
that would look weird because of the animation but i like the mechanic being on that move. maybe there's a better hit reaction to use, i think most or all of the 1.19 knockdowns are linear moves
kokoro
work
work, and a mixup
-8 maybe
gross, but so is the current reaction
maybe, but not if she gets it off of her worst launcher nor if i fuck up mid bounds. this is a better candidate for juggle bounce, but since it bounces in stun i don't know how interesting that is.
nah it's already like that on cr stun. seems kinda boring, although i think the air hit should have way more knockback on it. i'll look into that.
manipulating advantage on a throw is sus. i'll revisit that if i make a bunch of counter-hit upgrades when I'm doing the raijin's final form and think about giving everybody upgrades like hayabusa's grab.
maybes all around
lisa
sure
if i can find it
changing speed like that is sus and it's too fast as is. i'm trying to turn back on conditional FS vs low hold though
maybe but that logic is questionable. zack has way more reach and way more shit out of ducking.
12 frame mid NH stun? lmao who else has one?
sway is supposed to be bait it doesn't make sense for bait strings to be plus
sounds good. old 8k anim even exists and i probably have the ID noted
no
usual caveats of that GB issue
Will also be doing quick responses to your responses bc GYATTTT did this take it outta me. (My responses are also not going to be in order - sorry)
Got you on the GB issue - if that's a problem then definitely don't fuck around with it, let's not break the whole game for some + frames LMAO.
Also intersting take on the "No mid bounder" "rule" opinion. I see.
Helena getting 44PPP as a bounder sounds crispy, I like that.
Also if things look like they'll take TOOOO much work just ignore the note - I'm unaware completely of what is and isn't possible! Damn Leon and Ein moves don't exist? They really had no plans to bring these mfs back.
DOA4/5 (Zack) 236P is in the game for sure. I've had CPU do it to me multiple times. I fight the AI when I'm being braindead and to upkeep muscle memory - this isnt really how I play the game LOL
Regarding the logic on Zack's 4K. The frames they gave Honoka are the exact frames he had from DOA5 Vanilla and 5U before a balance patch (I couldn't tell you which one) I wouldn't necessarily care too much if it didn't happen because I've been dealing with it for 6+ years, but it would be nice.
Understood with th 7P4. Was just thinking because it's 0 and +1 a tip range it could be good to have it naturally plus on block at a closer range. Doesn't affect me either way.
Eh I'll live with Funky Roll and Ducking still being there after SS. Haven't found proper use for them so I can act as if it doesn't exist. SS Slide Roll is chef's kiss tho lmao.
Counter hit throw properties changing could be a shout. Hitomi's 6T would have different frame advantages in DOA4 depending on what kind of counter you got it on. Watching that space.
(Idk what the slide knockdown is actually called, but it's the same slide you use when breaking boxes in 6++)
You'd have to spend a big big big amount of time on the Bayman changes so I fully understand about actually committing to that work.
Fill me in when you do private betas. I'm 100% there for it.
I really would like to be able to Fatal Stun low holders with the crouching hit CH attacks so I'm with it. It was one of my wishes when TN was supporting the game. Would take that over a 4H+K slowdown nerf buff.
Yeahhh okay lets not have Jann Lee getting ceiling hits off 236P lol.
Hmmmm, let's see what 22/88 sidestep moves would be like.
Bass doesn't really need a bound off his 4T it was just eye candy lmao I could also live with that not making it.
Yeesh, got me rethinking the P+KP bounder when you said giving a 9 frame pressure character an FT OS.
Also if things look like they'll take TOOOO much work just ignore the note - I'm unaware completely of what is and isn't possible! Damn Leon and Ein moves don't exist? They really had no plans to bring these mfs back.
on this point in particular, it's that animations are tied to characters and all that stuff is siloed except for like hit reactions which are mostly in an extra "common" or "BASE" set.
there's also some connection between animation files (foo.g1a, etc) that we don't understand preventing us from really going nuts using throwaway animations to do some tricky things that would've been nice.
hopefully one of the UI heads figures out how to add three more character select buttons to that screen and the random filter etc and then we can use the story mode enemies for something if we ever figure out how to import whole ass animations. That's how you'd get an old character or guest character into the game.
Hmmmm, let's see what 22/88 sidestep moves would be like.
this was an option in 5, instead of 8/2 h+p+k and it would work the same way if i do it right.
i don't really want to privilege jann, hitomi, hayate, and brad with true side attack mixup more than they already get holding 8 or 2 during the entire sidestep animation and then pressing p or whatever..
As a Helena player I'd rather keep 214P with her options rather than giving her a SDS that's punishable on block. Why take away character options? That's part of her mix up. She already a fatal SDS from back turned that's perfectly viable. Same with 4PPP, removing BKO options for another launcher when she already has a plethora of launchers. If you want to add something without taking away, add pp2kp and allow Helena players to choose between damage or oki.
As a Helena player I'd rather keep 214P with her options rather than giving her a SDS that's punishable on block. Why take away character options? That's part of her mix up. She already a fatal SDS from back turned that's perfectly viable. Same with 44PPP, removing BKO options for another launcher when she already has a plethora of launchers. If you want to add something without taking away, add pp2kp and allow Helena players to choose between damage or oki.
Yeah I've already retracted most of the Helena as it doesn't really make sense to do so with her having the BT / can't be done since tampering with stuns is problematic.
In regards to 44PPP, why would you not want a bounce launch / bound on this string when there's a 50/50 built into it? You'd get more damage and oki with this buff. I didn't mention removing anything with that move string. PP2KP is a good idea though, I thought about it but didn't include it for some reason. I wrote this at like 4am last night so I was going to miss something.
Awhh Robbiebear you stopped before the best part! The bit where I suggested buffs because she needs some!
Worse for sure, but crippled? Nah. I would also be an advocate for getting the 2P refloat back but I'm outnumbered. I'm not done with the feedback even.
You gotta stop disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me - we could actually have a great conversation if you read my fluff.
But I don't mind you not doing that either to be honest.
P+KP is an interesting change, although it's a bit strange for that to be the move. Better than giving Phase 4 Chifu from BT 8K.
Those are some good ideas for Marie. It's a shame it will never be implemented. The hypocrisy of supposedly wanting actual insight and critique only to completely dismiss it.
And that's something you need to understand dude so you're not wasting your time with feedback. Revan never cared to begin with. He just wanted to hastily throw out a version of 6 with no meter with some extra stuff on the side. What we have is a total clown mod. There's really not much to discuss.
P+KP is an interesting change, although it's a bit strange for that to be the move. Better than giving Phase 4 Chifu from BT 8K.
Those are some good ideas for Marie. It's a shame it will never be implemented. The hypocrisy of supposedly wanting actual insight and critique only to completely dismiss it.
And that's something you need to understand dude so you're not wasting your time with feedback. Revan never cared to begin with. He just wanted to hastily throw out a version of 6 with no meter with some extra stuff on the side. What we have is a total clown mod. There's really not much to discuss.
i have never in my life seen a post that so simultaneously has no fucking idea what a joke is and cannot possibly be serious.
hasty lmfao
compare crapo's posts with "i eXpEcTeD..." on the first page or anything you've said about it. You're in the extreme minority on meter go make DOA 6 Super, i'm sure it'll be very easy to do. Especially since you think this was "hasty".
I played 40 games with Kasumi today in 6++ and then played without the mod just to see something. It's not that she's bad - she has to be played differently. Notes:
33K > 66K:K > 4PKK is the new bound equivalent launch combo. Since the close hit combo meta isn't really here in 6++, This combo route gives you the same amount of damage that 7KP > 236P did without close hit.
KK and 3PK are the new 6PK. If you still want to counter with 6P then do so, just don't do the 6PK string. You lose your plus frames.
4P is also a better option.
3PK / 4K > BT H+K6 > Hoshinpo K > 4PKK is the new alternative that can give deal up to 115DMG given how close you are to walls (open space)
4H+K (FS) > 7K 6 > Hoshinpo K > KK7KP deals 61DMG raw with easy FT setup potential and +15 if the enemy techs, WITH 6P+K being unholdable. This is actually better than a bound and close hit. Go for KK7KP+K for 64DMG damage and +19 if the enemy techs.
66P is the new knowledge check in neutral. 66P raw on block is -15 but deep stuns on hit. 66PP/K has a big delay window and if your enemy isn't holding high then you get a free +5 frames from 66PP6. So you can really just OS with this attack from any range with the visual check you have. When they start holding high or mashing after your 66P you then do 66PK with FT if they don't tech and +18 if they do. Hit/Block confirm greatness.
This Kasumi is good because it forces you to use your brain, and she can still do the mashing shit she always did. Her damage just isn't as free as it is in 6 Retail, which is fair since literally every other character plays like this and I don't know why people think she should be the exception. Add people guessing wrong in the mix and she's doing nice things.
Brad was pretty great in 6 retail as far as his design goes, he was quite capable in this game and held his own. These are really quality of life changes that would be cool to see.
Make 4P(P) / 6P4(P) flip over airborne opponents as a combo ender.
Make PPP flip over airborne opponents as a combo ender.
Add (4P) stance to PP. New input: PP4.
Fuck it, over time I've taken a liking to SS Stances. Brad would do well with 4P stance after SS. New input: SS P+K.
Increase bounce launch of 6H+K on CH.
Increase launch height of _3P on counter hit so that the full charge hits.
Make Dokuritsu-Ho H+K(K) refloat instead of flip over airborne opponents.
Nerfs to some startups and some quality of life changes. The intention here is to carefully use Bear Stance and reward people for patience.
The new H+K has to slow down to at least i18. It's a bit too fast for a tracking instant knockdown, but you've put that in the notes already.
Make new H+K bound at threshold overload.
Add Bear Stance after BT 4PP. New input: BT 4PP_4.
Add Bear Stance after Bear Stance 6P. New input: [Bear Stance] 6P4.
Slow down startup of 8P to i16 instead of i14.
Slow down startup of P(4P) to i18 instead of i13. This makes the string more reactable, but doesn't make him lose his stun if used in it.
Make CH 2K +18 on hit instead of +15.
Make Bear Stance PPP -9 on block instead of -6.
Make Bear Stance PP -8 on block instead of -4.
Make Bear Stance 16P -15 on block instead of -12.
Make Bear Stance 1P light stun for +6 on hit. Move is a bit useless otherwise.
Swap arounds and quality of life changes.
Make 4P(K) / 4K / 6PP(K) light stun (+6) like Eliot's 4K instead of knockdown on NH, but retain knockdown on threshold overload. Too strong in this oki meta.
Add KKK string to 3P. New input: 3PKKK
Add 6P+K to 3P. New input: 3PP.
Make 6PP(P) -6 on block instead of -11.
Make 6PPP(P) -11 on block instead of -6. I flipped this around to warrant punishment for committing to the string. This may help people process the full charged move better.
Make 6PPK -8 on block instead of -6.
Add 1K to 1P. New input: 1PK.
Speed up 9P to i14 instead of i16.
Why's she so trash in this game?
Add 4P(P) to 66P. New input. 66P4P
Add deep stun to 66P on CH.
Add 9K to 3K. New input. 3KK
Increase bounce on 6KP / 6PKP.
Make 6H+K Fatal Sit Down Stun.
Make 9K Fatal Stun against Sidesteppers.
Allow PP strings from BT. Move current to new input: BT 6P.
Add 9P to PPP. New input: PPP8.
Increase refloat to PPP.
Increase bounce launch on Amakake P on CH / in stun.
Make Amakake _P+K GB +14 on block. She needs to get something for free if her enemies are standing there watching a 95 frame attack and holding H the whole time. Cmon.
Make 4K have it's CH properties on all hits levels.
Make 2K 0 on NH and have it +14 on CH.
There's a camera bug with 236P+KPP82T. Gotta be fixed.
Quality of life changes. I love the PP6P stuff, it makes her feel like Nicole. Good shit.
Slightly adjust refloat on 4PP(P) so the last hit can consistently work on heavier characters.
Add H+K to 3K. New input: 3KK (Taking inspiration from Mila's 3KK)
Make P+K Fatal Sit Down Stun on Crouching Hit Counter Hit.
Make 8K bounce launch on CH and in stun.
Increase refloat on 6PP, but not high enough to get air grab.
Make 4K -3 on block instead of -5.
Make 8P / PP(4P) +23 on CH and in stun. Make it -11 on block instead of -8.
The joke would have been funny in any other context, but the dude is providing serious feedback, so it comes off as rude and dismissive.
For the millionth time, I am not arguing in favor or against the meter. All I have been saying is how integral the meter is to DOA6. You have yet to provide any convincing reason for its removal outside of your feelings about it.
The real problem with the meter isn't the mechanics tied to it but rather how quickly it fills. Address that, and maybe make break holds cost 3/4 meter, and problem solved.
The hatred towards meter is so hyperbolic, when in reality, the core issues with DOA6 lie more with the triangle system, stages and balance. For me to give a detailed list of changes and thoughts on vanilla DOA6 would require a lot of time that I don't feel like spending on it. The mod even more so.
I'd rather talk about how flawed DOA is from a competitive perspective.
Brad was pretty great in 6 retail as far as his design goes, he was quite capable in this game and held his own. These are really quality of life changes that would be cool to see.
Make 4P(P) / 6P4(P) flip over airborne opponents as a combo ender.
Make PPP flip over airborne opponents as a combo ender.
Add (4P) stance to PP. New input: PP4.
Fuck it, over time I've taken a liking to SS Stances. Brad would do well with 4P stance after SS. New input: SS P+K.
Increase bounce launch of 6H+K on CH.
Increase launch height of _3P on counter hit so that the full charge hits.
Make Dokuritsu-Ho H+K(K) refloat instead of flip over airborne opponents.
Nerfs to some startups and some quality of life changes. The intention here is to carefully use Bear Stance and reward people for patience.
The new H+K has to slow down to at least i18. It's a bit too fast for a tracking instant knockdown, but you've put that in the notes already.
Make new H+K bound at threshold overload.
Add Bear Stance after BT 4PP. New input: BT 4PP_4.
Add Bear Stance after Bear Stance 6P. New input: [Bear Stance] 6P4.
Slow down startup of 8P to i16 instead of i14.
Slow down startup of P(4P) to i18 instead of i13. This makes the string more reactable, but doesn't make him lose his stun if used in it.
Make CH 2K +18 on hit instead of +15.
Make Bear Stance PPP -9 on block instead of -6.
Make Bear Stance PP -8 on block instead of -4.
Make Bear Stance 16P -15 on block instead of -12.
Make Bear Stance 1P light stun for +6 on hit. Move is a bit useless otherwise.
Swap arounds and quality of life changes.
Make 4P(K) / 4K / 6PP(K) light stun (+6) like Eliot's 4K instead of knockdown on NH, but retain knockdown on threshold overload. Too strong in this oki meta.
Add KKK string to 3P. New input: 3PKKK
Add 6P+K to 3P. New input: 3PP.
Make 6PP(P) -6 on block instead of -11.
Make 6PPP(P) -11 on block instead of -6. I flipped this around to warrant punishment for committing to the string. This may help people process the full charged move better.
Make 6PPK -8 on block instead of -6.
Add 1K to 1P. New input: 1PK.
Speed up 9P to i14 instead of i16.
Why's she so trash in this game?
Add 4P(P) to 66P. New input. 66P4P
Add deep stun to 66P on CH.
Add 9K to 3K. New input. 3KK
Increase bounce on 6KP / 6PKP.
Make 6H+K Fatal Sit Down Stun.
Make 9K Fatal Stun against Sidesteppers.
Allow PP strings from BT. Move current to new input: BT 6P.
Add 9P to PPP. New input: PPP8.
Increase refloat to PPP.
Increase bounce launch on Amakake P on CH / in stun.
Make Amakake _P+K GB +14 on block. She needs to get something for free if her enemies are standing there watching a 95 frame attack and holding H the whole time. Cmon.
Make 4K have it's CH properties on all hits levels.
Make 2K 0 on NH and have it +14 on CH.
There's a camera bug with 236P+KPP82T. Gotta be fixed.
Quality of life changes. I love the PP6P stuff, it makes her feel like Nicole. Good shit.
Slightly adjust refloat on 4PP(P) so the last hit can consistently work on heavier characters.
Add H+K to 3K. New input: 3KK (Taking inspiration from Mila's 3KK)
Make P+K Fatal Sit Down Stun on Crouching Hit Counter Hit.
Make 8K bounce launch on CH and in stun.
Increase refloat on 6PP, but not high enough to get air grab.
Make 4K -3 on block instead of -5.
Make 8P / PP(4P) +23 on CH and in stun. Make it -11 on block instead of -8.
Finally, my girl Momiji getting some good changes here. I'm erect at the thought of 6H+K causing a fatal sitdown stun.
Those are great and add to that, if the attacks from her Amakake can't be 100% fuzzy guardable, even better. She's pretty much a fuzzy guard tutorial lmao.
I love how she plays in vanilla DOA6 though because she doesn't really need to play that launch->bound->close hit snoozefest.
Personally, I'm not suggesting any changes to Momiji because 1) bias 2) I like working with the tools she currently has in vanilla and figuring out how to deal with harder matchups
Finally, my girl Momiji getting some good changes here. I'm erect at the thought of 6H+K causing a fatal sitdown stun.
Those are great and add to that, if the attacks from her Amakake can't be 100% fuzzy guardable, even better. She's pretty much a fuzzy guard tutorial lmao.
I love how she plays in vanilla DOA6 though because she doesn't really need to play that launch->bound->close hit snoozefest.
Personally, I'm not suggesting any changes to Momiji because 1) bias 2) I like working with the tools she currently has in vanilla and figuring out how to deal with harder matchups
The good thing about all of these potential buffs is that none of them do anything too wild or too little for the character. Momiji's weaknesses are still going to be her weaknesses, as well as Brad's speed problem also - I have approached it in a way that they get things that for example Raidou, Ayane and others already have, while still being their own characters.
I also just want to see more combo / oki opportunities besides launch > bound > close hit ResidentSleeper. Might as well make the game loose as hell with the changes so that players can make their own choices with the options they select rather than only having to go for the one option the game essentially forces you to take.
My idea is "Fuck a tier-list, lets make everybody have really solid pros but also obvious cons".
no but that's a good idea. I want to figure out if i've over-nerfed wuks first though since you lose a lot of opportunity to do them and the (other) tools for beating them are more effective so maybe that's gone far enough that the wuk ought to win that exchange.
that's a pretty intricate thing to evaluate though, 21 damge on 9k is a pretty free change.
Sure, but characters like Kasumi and Christie still have identity problems.
I posted this on Discord but take Christie. A character with incredible evasion shouldn't also have the best possible strikes and one of the best throws at a wall. What exactly is the focus of her character? If she is supposed to just be pressure heavy, then why give her evasion? Basically, if she has really oppressive strike pressure, at least make her defense relatively weak. And it's not like you can get away from Christie R1F (Which is another criticism I have of DOA; if this game was serious about competitive play, you shouldn't be able to move before the round even starts, characters are put into immediate advantage/disadvantage). Christie's weakness is her range but to exploit that you would need to win the first exchange and have the tools to turtle against her. Characters like Marie, for example, have nothing to keep her out with. How is Christie's JAK better than Minuet? Marie should be the character to have good evasion, not Christie.
And Kasumi's problem is that she is just good at everything for no reason. Why give one of the best defensive tools in the game (mid parry) to a character with near immaculate offensive capabilities? Or Tina who has the most damaging throws and also best throw setups in the game, insane frame safety and crushes?
It's hilarious to me how the i9/i11 characters were not balanced with their fastest poke speeds in mind. This is why I say DOA6's problems have less to do with meter than other aspects of it.
; if this game was serious about competitive play, you shouldn't be able to move before the round even starts, characters are put into immediate advantage/disadvantage).
this would be worse if you couldn't move with how the stages are design. You are impeaching things that are core to the series as a whole and that makes you a clown. The triangle system is far more important to doa 6 than meter because the triangle system is core to dead or alive.
you want an entirely different game if you want the triangle system to go. everybody else still wants to play DOA, Your feedback is literally useless, you might as well be saying to make the game a first-person shooter.
