6++ Gameplay Overhaul

[Rev_an]

NEW UPDATE NEW THREAD: https://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/6-gameplay-overhaul-update-1.9160/

(beta 0th release) Patchnotes: https://pastebin.com/8hQcDeed

Alex's moveset swapper thread which enables this project to exist. Check out his readme for the advanced functions included with the mod, especially useful in training mode.

Issue tracker google doc - Items will be explained more verbosely when implemented if necessary.

here's a youtube playlist if you want that.

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DOA 6++ is a beta. If there's a Tenfu P+K situation it'll probably be addressed if the complaints aren't rooted in scrub mentality.

Further refinements to colliders are planned, it's just slow work and the mod is in a state where it would substantially benefit from player feedback. Some reset situations, stun routes, or juggles might be different, hit the lab and do something different.


I'm trying to make a better game than DOA 6, not a perfect game, not even the best DOA. If you think one of the other games is better... they should be!

Team Ninja are professionals and I'm some guy in a bedroom. But those games aren't on PC, or don't have netplay lobbies on PC (or at all), or have other technical issues, complicated setups, etc. DOA 6 for all the flaws at least has lobbies and all the Steam functions. Online training mode doesn't exist but remote play does etc.

That said, they are were working within the constraints of a for-profit publicly traded corporation which influences some of the decisions and compromises they have to make. Compromises like releasing the game in a certain fiscal year, not creating stage throw animations, cutting tag, and adding flashy casual appeal mechanics like fatal rush and super moves or crutches like break hold and break hold.

We have the freedom to make decisions that are optimized toward good gameplay rather than casual sales and an unlimited timescale. While we can't add rollback, stages, characters or animations, nor change the pipeline to change e.g. Raidou's movement speed (yet?) but we can tweak a bunch of stuff for balance and as of public beta there are examples of most of that capability.

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Spoiler: On meter mechanics

Tekken 7. Soul Calibur 6. Dead or Alive 6... All three major 3D games have meter mechanics now *and the implementation of all of them sucks*. Team Ninja, Project Soul, and Harada — again, teams of professionals with years of experience — did not improve their respective game series by the inclusion of these mechanics. Soul Calibur 6 is worse than SC 2. DOA 6 is worse than most previous games. I'm not a tekken player but for all the complaints about rage arts etc, I assume there's a better one of those.

My head is big enough trying to do this project in the first place, I'm not going to also claim to be able to solve a problem that those folks set up for themselves and didn't get right. If you think you can solve that feel free to try, though I recommend learning from others' mistakes and to not waste your time.

Dead or Alive didn't have meter mechanics before 2019 and didn't have supers before 2012, we have examples of several DOA games working and being good without those things, and DOA has enough going on with stage hazards, the triangle system, free step dodge, and critical holds. Removing meter entirely is the safest choice because we know the core systems work wonderfully without it.

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Special thanks to AlexXsWx, Gultigagar, Ponton, UsagiZ, Grap3fruitman, Wazaaaaa and anyone else who contributed to our knowledge of how all this stuff works.

Thanks to my testers and anybody who got hype in public.

 

[Rev_an]

Installation insturctions: download the latest zip from not this thread anymore:



extract or copy the files to the doa 6 game folder

Disabling the gameplay mod but keeping alex's enhancements:
rename the "replacements" folder in Steam\steamapps\common\Dead or Alive 6\mod\ to "_replacements" or something.
in the game folder find the file d3d11.dll.mod.ini, open it in notepad++ or whatever simple text editor you have such as the default notepad.exe
change the line "breakGaugeMode = 2" to "breakGaugeMode = 0" and save the file
if you launch the game without that folder named exactly "replacements" the mod will create an empty one, so just make sure you keep track of whether your replacements folder has the mod files in it or not when you want to play 6++ again.

Disabling the gameplay mod and Alex's hitbox visualizer etc:
in the game folder find d3d11.dll and move, delete, or rename it.

 

[AlexXsWx]

I'm so excited to see this! After months and months of development, it's finally public Fenomenal work!

 

[Project Bokuho]

Nice stuff!

 

[Moruma]

- Christie 3K cancel nerf? Unnecessary.
I expected 8pp to be a bound, h+kkk not wallsplatting, 3K launch, BT throw

- Helena … no changes besides 33P which already came from Alex.

- Kasumi/phase 4
bt 2p refloat gone? Do you actually play these two characters that you actually removed this? Is the game suddenly better now?

So much more weird stuff going on here.

This honestly feels like a fan mod. It’s a watered down/incomplete version of DOA6. The game is barebones without the extra mechanics. If you can’t replace the mechanics with anything else, I don’t think it makes sense to remove them. Maybe invincibility should disappear but that’s it. Good try but I’ll stick with DOA5.

 

[Rob]

This honestly feels like a fan mod. It’s a watered down/incomplete version of DOA6. The game is barebones without the extra mechanics. If you can’t replace the mechanics with anything else, I don’t think it makes sense to remove them. Maybe invincibility should disappear but that’s it. Good try but I’ll stick with DOA5.

Yep, there's not enough mechanics in DOA6 to compensate for the removal of meter. The game is now even more boring to play.

Also, SSA is too strong since its now a meterless non-linear free oki attempt. Imagine if that was in DOA5 lol

 

[Full Cup Bounce]

Also, SSA is too strong since its now a meterless non-linear free oki attempt. Imagine if that was in DOA5 lol

He plays Ayane so he's never seen a situation where sidestep is a useful option for the opponent anyway. :^)

 

[Gill Hustle]

 

[Rev_an]

- Christie 3K cancel nerf? Unnecessary.
I expected 8pp to be a bound, h+kkk not wallsplatting, 3K launch, BT throw

- Helena … no changes besides 33P which already came from Alex.

- Kasumi/phase 4
bt 2p refloat gone? Do you actually play these two characters that you actually removed this? Is the game suddenly better now?

So much more weird stuff going on here.

This honestly feels like a fan mod. It’s a watered down/incomplete version of DOA6. The game is barebones without the extra mechanics. If you can’t replace the mechanics with anything else, I don’t think it makes sense to remove them. Maybe invincibility should disappear but that’s it. Good try but I’ll stick with DOA5.

3k at the wall into jak was a guaranteed back hit reset and those suck.

helena, like the other characters which did not get a bunch of individual changes, did not have a bunch of old content to return and (unlike diego) has a well-populated movelist without much room for obvious additions.

look at the bt 2p animation and explain to me why that move should have that juggle property. I'm willing to revert aesthetic driven changes like that or some of the back-hit animation swaps if there's an actual reason for it.

The retail version DOA 6 is an incomplete version of DOA 6. it sounds like you and Rob are meter heads and I already said all I have to say about that: Meter hasn't made any of these games better.

Have fun with you no PC lobbies and console input delay.

Also, SSA is too strong since its now a meterless non-linear free oki attempt. Imagine if that was in DOA5 lol

Rob, in doa5 you got a stun. you're either undervaluing that or crazy over-valuing 20 damage and guessing for pressure.

 

[Moruma]

3k at the wall into jak was a guaranteed back hit reset and those suck.

helena, like the other characters which did not get a bunch of individual changes, did not have a bunch of old content to return and (unlike diego) has a well-populated movelist without much room for obvious additions.

look at the bt 2p animation and explain to me why that move should have that juggle property. I'm willing to revert aesthetic driven changes like that or some of the back-hit animation swaps if there's an actual reason for it.

The retail version DOA 6 is an incomplete version of DOA 6. it sounds like you and Rob are meter heads and I already said all I have to say about that: Meter hasn't made any of these games better.

Have fun with you no PC lobbies and console input delay.


Rob, in doa5 you got a stun. you're either undervaluing that or crazy over-valuing 20 damage and guessing for pressure.

I’m a meter head because I said DOA6 is barebones? Lol ok..

I hated DOA6 day one and meter was the number one reason why. This is a game that can’t be fixed without changing the whole engine, and at that point, it’s not even fixing DOA6. It’s actually playing an entirely different game.

As for Kasumi/Phase 4, in most situations, BT 2p is sometimes the best option to always guarantee a combo. The fact that you asked for a good reason is a little ridiculous. If you’re unsure, you should just not touch it since you don’t really play the game.

Resets suck? If it was up to you, I’m sure you would take out all advanced meta in the game.

The fact that you said “enjoy your console input delay” means you really didn’t play DOA seriously at all since that’s what all of us are actually used to playing.

 

[Rob]

The retail version DOA 6 is an incomplete version of DOA 6. it sounds like you and Rob are meter heads and I already said all I have to say about that: Meter hasn't made any of these games better.

But you haven't made the game better by removing it either. You've made a different version of the game.

Neither of us are arguing for nor against a meter in DOA6.

What we are saying is, there's not enough mechanics present to fill in the vacuum when you remove the meter and you're not adding any either that could benefit the game like throw breaks.

DOA6 was already watered down from DOA5LR and it was designed with the meter system. Strangely, the meter is like the only thing interesting about DOA6.

You haven't given a solid argument for its removal outside of some vague stuff about crutches and casual play.

Have fun with you no PC lobbies and console input delay.

That's funny because DOA5LR's console input delay, measured at 4.7f, is going to be roughly the same as DOA6 PC which already has a 3f delay baked in the DW9 engine they are using.

And DOA5LR on PC doesn't have that inherent delay in its engine.

Rob, in doa5 you got a stun. you're either undervaluing that or crazy over-valuing 20 damage and guessing for pressure.

What I'm saying is if this was implemented in DOA5 you'd be super fucked because you wouldn't be able to tech.

Honestly, the biggest folly here is trying to salvage DOA6. The competitive players hate it, the oldheads would rather play 2U or 3, the casuals with 4. There's no point for this thing to even exist especially when the playerbase has dwindled to a few players, which is now further going to be down in numbers with the existence of the mod.

I'd rather just play the game that already exists, flaws and all.

 

[deathofaninja]

But you haven't made the game better by removing it either. You've made a different version of the game.

Neither of us are arguing for nor against a meter in DOA6.

What we are saying is, there's not enough mechanics present to fill in the vacuum when you remove the meter and you're not adding any either that could benefit the game like throw breaks.

DOA6 was already watered down from DOA5LR and it was designed with the meter system. Strangely, the meter is like the only thing interesting about DOA6.

You haven't given a solid argument for its removal outside of some vague stuff about crutches and casual play.



That's funny because DOA5LR's console input delay, measured at 4.7f, is going to be roughly the same as DOA6 PC which already has a 3f delay baked in the DW9 engine they are using.

And DOA5LR on PC doesn't have that inherent delay in its engine.


What I'm saying is if this was implemented in DOA5 you'd be super fucked because you wouldn't be able to tech.

Honestly, the biggest folly here is trying to salvage DOA6. The competitive players hate it, the oldheads would rather play 2U or 3, the casuals with 4. There's no point for this thing to even exist especially when the playerbase has dwindled to a few players, which is now further going to be down in numbers with the existence of the mod.

I'd rather just play the game that already exists, flaws and all.

I've actually heard a lot of people are anticipating the mod, and things have been looking up for DOA6; I mean just yesterday there was a solid offline tournament that certainly more than a few players tuned in to see, and I don't see how a mod is going to "further" bring down the numbers.

We get it, you hate DOA6, and that's fine; but not everybody does - and you don't have to ruin it for the people that do.

 

[Rob]

I've actually heard a lot of people are anticipating the mod, and things have been looking up for DOA6; I mean just yesterday there was a solid offline tournament that certainly more than a few players tuned in to see, and I don't see how a mod is going to "further" bring down the numbers.

"A lot of people" so a lot means like 4 people now? Lol.

Uh huh, solid offline tournament, the same two dudes who we all knew was going to make it to the GF because there is no other competition lol. And everyone and their mother knew who was going to win that GF too.

The mod will split the online DOA6 playerbase.

You live in this fantasy world where DOA is some super popular game. It ain't.

We get it, you hate DOA6, and that's fine; but not everybody does - and you don't have to ruin it for the people that do.

Whether I hate or love DOA6 is irrelevant.

 

[deathofaninja]

"A lot of people" so a lot means like 4 people now? Lol.

Uh huh, solid offline tournament, the same two dudes who we all knew was going to make it to the GF because there is no other competition lol. And everyone and their mother knew who was going to win that GF too.

The mod will split the online DOA6 playerbase.

You live in this fantasy world where DOA is some super popular game. It ain't.


Whether I hate or love DOA6 is irrelevant.

You're damn right about that last part, and that's about it. Nobody knew who was going to win the final, but the best players typically win tournaments, right? Wouldn't you say that goes for just about any game? Anyways I've seen you insult people here before and for something that probably should have resulted in you being suspended or banned, but we bit our lip and moved on.

I absolutely hate when people bully or criticize the work of others and are completely lacking with content or contributions of their own, but yet here they are pointing angry fingers. Grow up! This crusade you are on really needs to stop. The mod is there for people that want to do it, and if you don't like it don't fucking play it. Take your bs drama to Twitter, or you are gone. Two others were recently suspended here and put on ice for a while, and I don't want the same for you.

There has never been a day in hell where I will stoop down and insult someone else's hard work; especially in a small community where people are required to work hard. If you think the low count of players makes you impervious to punishment here, you have sadly mistaken. Not every topic is yours to beat on DOA6. On Twitter that's fine! Go Tweet! On a DOA website I see it as, bullying, damaging and something not to be tolerated.

 

[Rob]

You're damn right about that last part, and that's about it. Nobody knew who was going to win the final, but the best players typically win tournaments, right? Wouldn't you say that goes for just about any game? Anyways I've seen you insult people here before and for something that probably should have resulted in you being suspended or banned, but we bit our lip and moved on.

I absolutely hate when people bully or criticize the work of others and are completely lacking with content or contributions of their own, but yet here they are pointing angry fingers. Grow up! This crusade you are on really needs to stop. The mod is there for people that want to do it, and if you don't like it don't fucking play it. Take your bs drama to Twitter, or you are gone. Two others were recently suspended here and put on ice for a while, and I don't want the same for you.

There has never been a day in hell where I will stoop down and insult someone else's hard work; especially in a small community where people are required to work hard. If you think the low count of players makes you impervious to punishment here, you have sadly mistaken. Not every topic is yours to beat on DOA6. On Twitter that's fine! Go Tweet! On a DOA website I see it as, bullying, damaging and something not to be tolerated.

Check that "ABOUT US" section at the bottom of the website, chief:

"

• Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best."

Just because this is a fan mod doesn't exclude it from any serious critical discussion about it.

I'm harsh in particular about this one because of who is in charge of the project. If this was anybody else, I'd keep quiet.

 

[deathofaninja]

Check that "ABOUT US" section at the bottom of the website, chief:

"

• Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best."

Just because this is a fan mod doesn't exclude it from any serious critical discussion about it.

I'm harsh in particular about this one because of who is in charge of the project. If this was anybody else, I'd keep quiet.

It is biased because you turn every topic into the same fucking thing. The suspension you should have gotten a long time ago had NOTHING to do with the about us section of the site and was a personal attack on a person.

Once again if you don't like it don't fucking play it and move on and stop going off-topic with every thread you post in about how you dislike DOA6. I'm done with it. I'm over it. It's so last season. Nobody is joining your clique or cares.

 

[Rob]

What in the world are you talking about? I don't ever remember talking to you outside this thread lmao.

Stop harassing me bro.

 

[deathofaninja]

What in the world are you talking about? I don't ever remember talking to you outside this thread lmao.

Stop harassing me bro.

What are you talking about?

It was another member of this community I still have a record "bro" of what you said to this person, so I find it ironic you have the balls to say you're the one being harassed when it was you that harassed a member of this community. I find it even more puzzling that you are trying to hide behind the ABOUT SECTION.

Stop derailing every thread "bro" or you can gtfo. One more post in this thread and you are gone.

 

[Rob]

I've been on topic. It's you who wants to derail it into this weird tangent that I don't like DOA6.

I'm focused on being critical of the mod.

Please stay on topic.

 

[deathofaninja]

You don't run shit here, buddy. If I want you banned permanently for being a condescending rule-breaker with no actual feedback it will be done. Limiting your profile doesn't change the fact that I still have the evidence that you have broken the TOS more than once and it went unpunished because you were given a chance to improve and be a better person for this community. Keep in mind that I would like you to stay, but I think you need to tone it down a bit on people and stop acting like getting the last word matters.

Emery Reigns is supposed to stream the game tomorrow. So, we can get some actual insight from someone on what this can do and not just a bunch of "I hate DOA6" and "Nobody plays this game" comments that you'd expect to see from a two-year-old baby that didn't get the toy he wanted from his happy meal.

There will probably be a news post, but we'll see how much he digs up and how extensive it gets.