The unwanted opinions are realllll! @axouel2009 i love what you’re doing and keep it up. I’ll give my criticisms and opinions once the project is over so you can learn from the feedback! 
DEAD OR ALIVE : the animation_ alpha test
- Thread starter axouel2009
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axouel2009
Well-Known Member
every opinion is wanted.
It's just that there are a lot of technical parameters that are unknown to you (and that I plan to clarify in the coming weeks) and I'm becoming very sensitive lol
But already tell me what you think about the concepts, what you would like to see and everything, it will be up to me to do with it
It's just that there are a lot of technical parameters that are unknown to you (and that I plan to clarify in the coming weeks) and I'm becoming very sensitive lol
But already tell me what you think about the concepts, what you would like to see and everything, it will be up to me to do with it
Right now, I don’t really know much about the concepts so giving myevery opinion is wanted.
It's just that there are a lot of technical parameters that are unknown to you (and that I plan to clarify in the coming weeks) and I'm becoming very sensitive lol
But already tell me what you think about the concepts, what you would like to see and everything, it will be up to me to do with it
Opinion now would feel wrong imo. I rather give opinions on the full package. Right now I like what is presented.
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
human013
Well-Known Member
They speak those languages because the original creator wanted them to. That is the only reason that matters. The people at Tekken wanted their characters to speak different languages so the characters speak different languages. The people at SF wanted the characters to speak Japanese and English so the characters speak those languages. Giving characters traits they never had may not sit right with some people. TN has made DOA games for decades and even your beloved Itagaki who can do no wrong never had the characters speak a different language but you believe that if you, a random fan, implement it everyone including TN will be on board? This better not be another case of an enlightened westerner coming in to "fix" something Japanese. Your words were, "mysteriously fluent in Japanese", "it would make much more sense", "it would deepen the characters a lot". Would Itagaki like or want this? If he did why did he not do it himself?
Never said that or intended that but take it however you will. And calm down on the anime stuff. No one said that. I said eastern which is more than just the anime style you guys love to complain about. All I'm saying is that just like how you guys love bashing on anything remotely anime the second you see it, other people will do the same thing to this. Again, DOA is an already established series with a certain look in people's mind.
If you did not mean that then leave it out. You said you want as many people as possible but when questioned you immediately get defensive and disregard parts of the already small DOA population. I don't think people outside the DOA community will care about this project.
Calm down. You guys are getting so defensive you can't even read properly. That has nothing to do with what I asked. Have you thought about a piece or scene you want to use to showcase your project? The one piece you will use to show off. You know, like how every other form of media has a teaser to generate interest. You guys sure love creating fictional people and ideas to get defensive about. You want this project to get attention so I gave my thoughts on what people might like. Small animated fight scenes get thousands of likes and retweets all the time.
How long you played the game and the contests you participated in don't matter at all to the legal side.
Isn't there a Japanese FSD too? Any word from them yet?
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
They speak those languages because the original creator wanted them to. That is the only reason that matters. The people at Tekken wanted their characters to speak different languages so the characters speak different languages. The people at SF wanted the characters to speak Japanese and English so the characters speak those languages. Giving characters traits they never had may not sit right with some people. TN has made DOA games for decades and even your beloved Itagaki who can do no wrong never had the characters speak a different language but you believe that if you, a random fan, implement it everyone including TN will be on board? This better not be another case of an enlightened westerner coming in to "fix" something Japanese. Your words were, "mysteriously fluent in Japanese", "it would make much more sense", "it would deepen the characters a lot". Would Itagaki like or want this? If he did why did he not do it himself?
Never said that or intended that but take it however you will. And calm down on the anime stuff. No one said that. I said eastern which is more than just the anime style you guys love to complain about. All I'm saying is that just like how you guys love bashing on anything remotely anime the second you see it, other people will do the same thing to this. Again, DOA is an already established series with a certain look in people's mind.
If you did not mean that then leave it out. You said you want as many people as possible but when questioned you immediately get defensive and disregard parts of the already small DOA population. I don't think people outside the DOA community will care about this project.
Calm down. You guys are getting so defensive you can't even read properly. That has nothing to do with what I asked. Have you thought about a piece or scene you want to use to showcase your project? The one piece you will use to show off. You know, like how every other form of media has a teaser to generate interest. You guys sure love creating fictional people and ideas to get defensive about. You want this project to get attention so I gave my thoughts on what people might like. Small animated fight scenes get thousands of likes and retweets all the time.
How long you played the game and the contests you participated in don't matter at all to the legal side.
Isn't there a Japanese FSD too? Any word from them yet?
THE AUDACITY x)
I'm open to constructive criticism, so what you're doing is trying to kill the project before it's even born. If you don't like the idea of the project, just don't support it, I'd much rather be in collaboration with kind people.
If there's any disagreement, I'll gladly exchange with anyone willing to educate themselves on certain subjects, treating myself as a novice whether it's about DOA, animation production, or art direction is relatively daring considering I've made it my profession.
You quote Itagaki, a man with whom I've been talking personally for many years and who has validated the points I've presented to you and supports the project ... What to do with this information ?
YOU talk to me about combat animation ... for a fighting game ... you think you got the idea of the sciecle by telling me to make a fighting animation? You think I don't know that's what people like the most? But little question : YOU KNOW WHAT MARKETING IS : you have to make people wait a little bit, you must never give everything at once, it's so ... the basis !
You talk to me about hearing, I don't only aim at DOA fans, there are also people who like good animation, quite simply, people can even discover DOA through this media, you don't seem to have thought about all the possibilities, you seem terribly limited. open up a little my friend.
I understand that change is scary you're probably an anime fan just like I am, I'm not afraid to make clear choices like Itagaki did when he took groups like aerosmith to do the OST of a japanese game, I'm not afraid of failure because I know where I'm going, I know the quality that the project can have.
If you are still interested, please be patient and give me feedback on your expectations, constructive feedback on things that are still changeable and I also invite you as to measure your words, the work provided would be only for 10 minutes of animation represents 14400 different images, but again I will explain all this in the near future. trust me.
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
I'm working on it
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
human013
Well-Known Member
@KwonJigglypuff
1. It is a fan project with this goal in mind.
2. DOA still looks Japanese/ Eastern. Yes this is a side animation but it wants to become official. That means you can't purposely alienate portions of the fanbase because you deem them to be people who don't fit your idea of what DOA is. You also can't go believing everyone, the fans and the company, will mindlessly do what you want.
3. How is it pessimistic when you yourself said people have left and are not coming back? The DOA name itself already leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. DOA has had young females since the beginning and the DOAX series existed way before DOAX3 so if it is such a deal breaker now it should have been one back then too. You all should have protested and complained about the game and the DOAX series when they were first introduced. All the complaints people have here can be applied to all the DOA games before 5, 6, and X3. As for the DLC, just stop buying it and be loud about it. As loud as when people here complained about Nico. The DLC wouldn't sell if the DOA community was against it.
If DOA5 did not exist or look the way it did I would have never touched this series. The DOA community is more than just the people who are similar to you. It has grown. That means DOA needs to cater to both old and new. If DOA still had its DOA1-4 look I would never have touched it or taken the series seriously. The old style DOA had was 100 times worse than the "anime" and "lolis" you guys complain about. The new characters are not any different than the old characters in DOA. I accepted the 18yo blue hair evil scientist the same way you guys accepted the 16yo purple hair ninja.
Yes, look at Dead Fantasy. Did it become popular because the fights were shown and everyone loved spreading it around? Or did it become popular from the sketches and text based explanations? Also, Dead Fantasy had no intention of becoming official, as far as I know, so that is already a huge difference. And I gave my support and my feedback. If that was seen as being negative or offensive then I can't help you there. They were basic questions.
1. It is a fan project with this goal in mind.
We need to ask real questions at some point. The goal is to approach a Japanese company that, from what I have seen, is pretty well known for their Japanese titles. Not to mention this is the company that owns the characters this fan project wants to needlessly change. Play this out in your mind; TN/ KT or whoever asks why this change should be made to their characters and the response is, "it would make much more sense to have a Chinese dubbing in that case no matter what, I think it would deepen the characters a lot. Same case with Helena in France and Hitomi in Germany...". That is not a strong argument at all.
2. DOA still looks Japanese/ Eastern. Yes this is a side animation but it wants to become official. That means you can't purposely alienate portions of the fanbase because you deem them to be people who don't fit your idea of what DOA is. You also can't go believing everyone, the fans and the company, will mindlessly do what you want.
3. How is it pessimistic when you yourself said people have left and are not coming back? The DOA name itself already leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. DOA has had young females since the beginning and the DOAX series existed way before DOAX3 so if it is such a deal breaker now it should have been one back then too. You all should have protested and complained about the game and the DOAX series when they were first introduced. All the complaints people have here can be applied to all the DOA games before 5, 6, and X3. As for the DLC, just stop buying it and be loud about it. As loud as when people here complained about Nico. The DLC wouldn't sell if the DOA community was against it.
If DOA5 did not exist or look the way it did I would have never touched this series. The DOA community is more than just the people who are similar to you. It has grown. That means DOA needs to cater to both old and new. If DOA still had its DOA1-4 look I would never have touched it or taken the series seriously. The old style DOA had was 100 times worse than the "anime" and "lolis" you guys complain about. The new characters are not any different than the old characters in DOA. I accepted the 18yo blue hair evil scientist the same way you guys accepted the 16yo purple hair ninja.
Yes, look at Dead Fantasy. Did it become popular because the fights were shown and everyone loved spreading it around? Or did it become popular from the sketches and text based explanations? Also, Dead Fantasy had no intention of becoming official, as far as I know, so that is already a huge difference. And I gave my support and my feedback. If that was seen as being negative or offensive then I can't help you there. They were basic questions.
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right, thank you for bringing me your advices it will help me a lot. I hadn't thought about any of this at all before, it's crazy !
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KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your feedback and no I'm not saying it's bad to be pessimistic sometimes, because indeed it allow people to ask realistic questions too. I hope I didn't not offend you..
1. I understand but I think the main argument was only that it was cool to hear some other languages than English/Japanese. It's not only to deepen things. Don't look further. That's my opinion but I understand that mixing languages can be confusing... A real topic...
2. I don't think you realize how not-cocky Axouel is regarding this project and how much support is actually needed, because you said it, exactly, people won't mindlessly follow it and nobody is confident of its reception.
Now, an artistic/technical decision was made regarding the art style. I learned to appreciate it and understand that it fitted both the technical abilities of Axouel and the dynamism of fighting. So yeah, it's a risk, but it's better than no project or a project that would require ten times the efforts (with the same risks of failing, I mean, you understand this choice right...?)
3. Well here is my definitions !
- realistic : fans left the community back in DOA4 (Itagaki), DOA5 (DLC practices), DOA6 (lack of creativity)
- pessimistic : "you won't succeed in your project because" (no matter how rightful the arguments are)
- utopian : you thinking that complaining about DLC or NiCO would stop TN from doing it ^^
- human013 : strong relevant arguments with a pessimist tone, so it was hard for me to figure out your motivations at first, now I understand
Also you are very right about catering to both the new and old fanbase, but from what I've seen it is the exact purpose of this series. Creating a bridge between DOA4 and DOA5, featuring the best of each era, and showcasing some characters' background. And it's coming from someone who learned to love all the characters and who is pessimist/realistic/utopian just like you (well depending on your defs).
The only thing I didn't understand from your text is "characters this fan project wants needlessly to change".
Are we still talking about languages or the fact that we will explore some extra events of their life ?
“Needlessly change”??? This is in the end a fan project. It’s something Aouxel owns, he can do with the characters what he wants in this fan project. There’s no such thing as a needless change. Like what has said before. If you don’t like it, see yourself out. Nobody is forcing you to keep up with this project.
A fan project honestly doesn’t need to cater to anybody. These stories aren’t canon, none of this has a direct effect on the series or the game. Having characters speaking their native languages while residing in their native country isn’t something that needs an argument. It’s not like Tekken where Hitomi speaks German to Leifang who responds in mandarin back to her. It’s probably Hitomi speaking German in a scene to her father, or Leifang speaking mandarin to Jann Lee or her parents.
So far I’ve never seen the people here you quoted complain about DOA being too anime. You’re honestly barking up the wrong tree at the moment and I’m getting a secondhand embarrassment from it. Again, this is a fan project for fun, it isn’t used to make a statement and it doesn’t directly have an effect on the series. It’s kinda tiring how you try to be a critical individual while it’s mostly giving me envy and just straight up salt.
To point it out one final time. It’s his project, he can do with it whatever he wants. Don’t like it? Don’t support it or keep up with it.
onelasttime
Well-Known Member
Ya'll leave this person alone. Doing great work and we love to see it. I haven't been excited about DOA fan stuff like this since dead fantasy (rip monty oum)
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
Thank you all, your positivity goes straight to my heart. I'm glad that not everyone is so ... pessimistic than others.
Sincerely I understand your frustration, I only show you static drawings and I talk to you about animation, I just ask you to wait a little bit, animation is a lot of work especially in 2D where you have to do EVERYTHING. Comparing my work to dead fantasy is not possible since the goal of these two projects are different in almost all points.
I can assure you that your expectation will be rewarded.
Sincerely I understand your frustration, I only show you static drawings and I talk to you about animation, I just ask you to wait a little bit, animation is a lot of work especially in 2D where you have to do EVERYTHING. Comparing my work to dead fantasy is not possible since the goal of these two projects are different in almost all points.
I can assure you that your expectation will be rewarded.
human013
Well-Known Member
I don't know why it is so hard to understand that the company that owns the series might not like it regardless of whether you like it or not. Let me just go to Namco and Harada and tell them I want the Mishimas to speak English because of my own personal reasons. Lets go with the Mishimas are a global threat so they should at least know English since that just makes sense. Or so all the characters can understand each other since it doesn't make sense that they can communicate with each other when they speak different languages. The Tekken team will clearly be on board with me giving their characters traits they never had and make my project official. But, since you guys know TN and KT better than me and it seems like they gladly welcome changes made by fans I'll leave it be.
People here have said things like "She would never wear such an outfit because it doesn't fit her personality". Wearing a skimpy or fetish outfit in a series known for skimpy and fetish outfits is considered out of character but suddenly speaking a new language is not? Right...
What you think does not really matter when this project is trying to get the attention of people outside of this community. You learned to appreciate and understand the art style but others may not. Just like how you guys accepted the DLC practices when everyone else rejected it. Saying "It's better than nothing" is not going to make people care when people already do not care much about DOA in general.
My fault. I did not know facts and basic logic was considered pessimistic. I'll ignore the history of DOA, TN, KT, and the types of people who play DOA. It's not like you guys complain about the Japanese DOA fans or the other DOA fans outside this site right? They all will unilaterally come together for this. No need to actually think about how they will get onboard. They will just naturally come and accept this.
I'll Just wait for the finished product to find out if it becomes official. I would love to see how the elements from this project are implemented into future DOA games. Good luck.
Nothing is going on with the game. If anything this could do something to keep hype for the series alive. Hope the project is going well I haven't looked at anything fora minute.
I want to see the Western characters utilized better than how Team NINJA represents them in current games.
I want to see the Western characters utilized better than how Team NINJA represents them in current games.
I’m sorry but after that first paragraph I was already done with your post. Most of us don’t like what TN is doing with the character assassination, making marie and Honoka the covergirls, etc. Do they care? No. So why should the fans care about TN likes or dislikes? You keep bringing up Tekken but what does Tekken have to do with a fan project for DOA? Honestly. Just shut up. It’s tiring to see your pitiful attempts at trolling. I’ve had my belly full of your smug attitude, it’s getting obnoxious. You’ve made it very clear that you don’t like the fan project, now bugger off.
axouel2009
Well-Known Member
Yes I would like to see the culture of each character in a deeper and less clichéd way, referencing is an important part of the process of creating the scenario lol. Everyone will be treated fairly and respectfully!
I was beginning to think that I was the one who was too involved in the project and who was taking the remarks too seriously. Thank you
No you are just doing good. He’s just trying to bring you down and make you demotivated. Nobody that has good intentions with their critiques delivers it in such a way that it feels like an attack rather than constructive criticism.Yes I would like to see the culture of each character in a deeper and less clichéd way, referencing is an important part of the process of creating the scenario lol. Everyone will be treated fairly and respectfully!
I was beginning to think that I was the one who was too involved in the project and who was taking the remarks too seriously. Thank you