Some gameplay issues with DOA6?

[Normal]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think since we have these meters it would be amazing if defensive holds were tied to them. You'd actually have to make a calculated decision on your hold instead of just willy nilly throwing it out there or spamming low holds to get out of stuns. Like the hold would burn something like 10% of the meter. It would keep how often the meter maxes out in a round as well.

I think meter comprehension becomes difficult when it is emptied by strange amounts. It was hard to tell how much meter would be used by an EX attack in street fighter 3, but street fighter 4 had four smaller bars creating the whole super meter, so you always know how much meter you spend and how much you will have left. New break blow attack also works like hold with and uses meter, like your idea.

Yet 10% as your idea is not much, because meter fills so quickly. So maybe this is a good idea too.

According to the write up from DrDogg the fatal rush stun is basically a critical burst. You can use it while a player is stunned and the stun property from fatal rush makes the next attack unholdable. In theory we can use it as a mix up to get an unholdable launcher after hitting with 2 or 3 hits of the fatal rush.

I definitely like the power blows more. For one its tied to health and seeing one thrown out raw is rare so when a PB is pulled off it feels more rewarding. This break blow thing can be used in juggles and its also a sabaki and seems most just end with a slow mo punch to the face with a super awkward transition into the animation. I'm meh on the entire thing, especially given how easily it seems to max out the meter. You might see one power blow an entire match, maybe two. This break blow we'll probably see 4 or 5 in a 3 round match and this damn thing does like 40% damage. Bleh.

Break blow can be used in juggle? airborne? w
Maybe remove this option.

Here is new gameplay footage from E3

I have watched this video more and seen new things.
▪ Fatal rush combo does not seem guaranteed as an attack in combo may have launch properties after much stun. Helena uses fatal rush after striking Zack a few times into stun, and so an attack in fatal rush launches Zack. This requires mindfulness to decide if cancelling fatal rush is valuable, as you may cancel at wrong time expecting fatal stun crumple but get a weak launch instead.
▪ Hayabusa has full break gauge and performed fatal rush against Hayate, while he performed break hold. Hayate waited for the last moment to break hold, so Hayabusa's gauge became empty and so did Hayate's. It seem if you perform break hold later instead of earlier, both fighters lose gauge. I worried break blow was guaranteed after fourth fatal rush attack so you must use meter to escape before fourth while opponent keeps meter, but this is not so.

These points seem more balanced than I thought.

 

[MasterHavik]

Fuck fatal rushes act like auto combos in DBZF...that will make them scary to use if I can free cancel or delay them.

 

[human013]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think since we have these meters it would be amazing if defensive holds were tied to them. You'd actually have to make a calculated decision on your hold instead of just willy nilly throwing it out there or spamming low holds to get out of stuns. Like the hold would burn something like 10% of the meter. It would keep how often the meter maxes out in a round as well.

Having a staple mechanic like defensive holds locked behind resources when it never has been limits the game severely. That would be similar to Soulcalibur having guard impact and normal moves that were turned to EX moves locked behind the soul gauge in 5. Having new mechanics dependent on meters is fine but changing the game's core mechanics to require a meter is doing too much. Besides, people can already deal with opponents who spam holds.

If I wanted to play a game that focuses on meter building just to access resources then I will just pop in a 2D game. If I want a game that doesn't focus on gauges then I'll get my 3D games. Those are the reasons I buy different games. So far from what has been revealed, it looks like DOA6 still plays like a DOA game and the gauge is just for the new gimmick. I just hope this mindset of adding gauges and supers into 3D games dies down soon. I don't want the gameplay of fighting games to be limited to traditional 2D and 2D but in a 3D plane.

 

[Raansu]

Having a staple mechanic like defensive holds locked behind resources when it never has been limits the game severely./QUOTE]

Ya that's kind of the point. The mechanic is fine, but there needs to be more situations where it can't be used. Tying them to meters would be a great way to make it so their use would require more thought. It would also have a bigger impact on people that love to spam low holds.

 

[ryu_highabusa]

Having a staple mechanic like defensive holds locked behind resources when it never has been limits the game severely.

The way DOA limited holds before was to give them multiple convoluted inputs for all different hit levels (see chart) and the user had to memorize every hit level of every string.

That make it actually impossible for an inexperienced player just starting out, when the whole point of counters was to give newer players a chance.

Having fewer inputs (2-point or 1-point) but limiting the holds to a meter eliminates this problem, I feel. Also, you can grey out the meter in un-holdable situations to indicate to the player when they can and cannot hold. This solves a lot of old issues with the series.

​

Ya, I'm not in favor of a 2 point hold, even if it was like DoA1 and they just parried.

You don't think requiring the player to memorize 3 or 4 hold levels for every move plus requiring meter is way too restrictive?

 

[Raansu]

Ya, I'm not in favor of a 2 point hold, even if it was like DoA1 and they just parried.

 

[Hajin']

I'm kinda confused tho by Fatal Rush so far.
Correct me if I'm wrong :

- Break Hold takes 100% bar and parries everything except throws. It gets the " Hi Counter Throw " treatment.
- Break Blow takes 100% bar and is a sabaki (everything?) move that does roughly 30-40% damage.

- Fatal Rush is four distinct moves (4 presses of the S button) that cost nothing except for the last one taking 100% bar away and doing the animation.
It has been said on the tutorial of the game you can't hold any of that if you don't have Break Hold. And it actually GIVES more gauge as you can see Hayate at some point doing it to access full bar. It also gives Fatal stun even without bar and I've not seen it being held by anybody so far even by accident. Only by Break Hold. Apparently, the first hit is also always a high.

So do you have to hold the first high otherwise you're doomed? Even without meter? Unless I missed something it kinda feels like Critical Burst but available on one button and level 1 stun. Because meter only seem to change the last it, making it into the animation/damage update.

Gotta say I really love DoA, but the only thing I see in this episode so far is :

- Hey, look at those nice graphics
- Hey, look at those nice animations
- Hey, look at how tone down the sexuality
- Hey, look at those new game mechanics that'll give you the opportunity to fight people who actually invest time in the game WITHOUT EFFORTS ! Wow isn't that a great thing?!!!

Nothing so far is aimed at the people who played DoA for the longuest time. It's like they don't give a damn, everything is tailored to please people that never played the game or intend to go deep playing it. And I don't like that era of holding lazy people hands so they give the money.
Hope I'm dead wrong, but so far, not super into it.

Edit : And I also super loved the 5 way hold from DoA5, I think it was perfect the way it was and you even had another hold, the 6th, for advanced hold characters (Bayman, Lei-Fang, Marie-Rose and Ryu had one too if you strictly use the advanced one for punches, and you should !!). It's not complicated and it offers more diversity in attacks. If you reduce that then it's just a matter of " I delay or not delay " and reducing possibility is never a good thing in my book. We're many that had to learn so many strings and lost a lot in order to get better. It's part of the learning process, if " newer player " can't be bother to go into practice mode or even think for two and a half seconds maybe they should play something else? I'm not gonna introduce assault rifle and grenades to chess pieces because someone is too lazy to learn the rules and apply them.

 

[Raansu]

Break blows catch highs and mids. Lows will avoid the sabaki.

According to DrDogg the stun from fatal rush cannot be held out of. The full combo itself doesn't seem to do a lot of damage, but can be ended with a break blow. The high attack that it starts out with seems to be around 20 frames and it can be used while a player is stunned, so I imagine it will be used similar to CB in 5 at higher level play.

Nothing so far is aimed at the people who played DoA for the longuest time. It's like they don't give a damn, everything is tailored to please people that never played the game or intend to go deep playing it. And I don't like that era of holding lazy people hands so they give the money.
Hope I'm dead wrong, but so far, not super into it.

It makes sense from a selling point perspective though. The core of the game still seems to be basically DoA5, and the majority of DoA fans are likely to buy the game. Naturally you're going to want to do extra things to market to people that are not DoA fans. At the end of the day the goal is always to sell a product and make a profit. I can't really blame them for trying new things while keeping the core mostly in place.

 

[MasterHavik]

I'm kinda confused tho by Fatal Rush so far.
Correct me if I'm wrong :

- Break Hold takes 100% bar and parries everything except throws. It gets the " Hi Counter Throw " treatment.
- Break Blow takes 100% bar and is a sabaki (everything?) move that does roughly 30-40% damage.

- Fatal Rush is four distinct moves (4 presses of the S button) that cost nothing except for the last one taking 100% bar away and doing the animation.
It has been said on the tutorial of the game you can't hold any of that if you don't have Break Hold. And it actually GIVES more gauge as you can see Hayate at some point doing it to access full bar. It also gives Fatal stun even without bar and I've not seen it being held by anybody so far even by accident. Only by Break Hold. Apparently, the first hit is also always a high.

So do you have to hold the first high otherwise you're doomed? Even without meter? Unless I missed something it kinda feels like Critical Burst but available on one button and level 1 stun. Because meter only seem to change the last it, making it into the animation/damage update.

Gotta say I really love DoA, but the only thing I see in this episode so far is :

- Hey, look at those nice graphics
- Hey, look at those nice animations
- Hey, look at how tone down the sexuality
- Hey, look at those new game mechanics that'll give you the opportunity to fight people who actually invest time in the game WITHOUT EFFORTS ! Wow isn't that a great thing?!!!

Nothing so far is aimed at the people who played DoA for the longuest time. It's like they don't give a damn, everything is tailored to please people that never played the game or intend to go deep playing it. And I don't like that era of holding lazy people hands so they give the money.
Hope I'm dead wrong, but so far, not super into it.

Edit : And I also super loved the 5 way hold from DoA5, I think it was perfect the way it was and you even had another hold, the 6th, for advanced hold characters (Bayman, Lei-Fang, Marie-Rose and Ryu had one too if you strictly use the advanced one for punches, and you should !!). It's not complicated and it offers more diversity in attacks. If you reduce that then it's just a matter of " I delay or not delay " and reducing possibility is never a good thing in my book. We're many that had to learn so many strings and lost a lot in order to get better. It's part of the learning process, if " newer player " can't be bother to go into practice mode or even think for two and a half seconds maybe they should play something else? I'm not gonna introduce assault rifle and grenades to chess pieces because someone is too lazy to learn the rules and apply them.

"

Gotta say I really love DoA, but the only thing I see in this episode so far is :

- Hey, look at those nice graphics
- Hey, look at those nice animations
- Hey, look at how tone down the sexuality
- Hey, look at those new game mechanics that'll give you the opportunity to fight people who actually invest time in the game WITHOUT EFFORTS ! Wow isn't that a great thing?!!!"

I think this my favorite part of your post. I also find it funny you talk about the sexuality being tone down when you main Ayane. Anyway, I'm with you on the catering to people who will play these games for two weeks and disappear. I really don't get this. It's getting bad when a company like arc made BBTAG easy on purpose so they could see more Americans in top 8 at EVO.​

 

[human013]

Ya that's kind of the point. The mechanic is fine, but there needs to be more situations where it can't be used. Tying them to meters would be a great way to make it so their use would require more thought. It would also have a bigger impact on people that love to spam low holds.

DOA is not a 2D game. There are already many things in the game to counter holds and people who thoughtlessly spam holds already get blown up. I don't think attaching a meter will make an impact as big as receiving more damage from being thrown or guessing wrong.

The way DOA limited holds before was to give them multiple convoluted inputs for all different hit levels (see chart) and the user had to memorize every hit level of every string.

That make it actually impossible for an inexperienced player just starting out, when the whole point of counters was to give newer players a chance.

Having fewer inputs (2-point or 1-point) but limiting the holds to a meter eliminates this problem, I feel. Also, you can grey out the meter in un-holdable situations to indicate to the player when they can and cannot hold. This solves a lot of old issues with the series.

​

You don't think requiring the player to memorize 3 or 4 hold levels for every move plus requiring meter is way too restrictive?

I never knew that but that does looks interesting and I kinda want to try that out. I am fine with anything as long as it is not meter based. I don't need more 2D games.

 

[Raansu]

DOA is not a 2D game. There are already many things in the game to counter holds and people who thoughtlessly spam holds already get blown up. I don't think attaching a meter will make an impact as big as receiving more damage from being thrown or guessing wrong.

Like it or not, DoA6 has a meter, its not going anywhere. I see no harm in making conversations to have it act in more ways than just being a glorified power move. Adding mechanics like the hold to it adds a deeper level of thought process to holds as well as keeping the meter from reaching max too often. More things that use meter, the less you'll see supers used.

 

[Hajin']

Break blows catch highs and mids. Lows will avoid the sabaki.

I didn't know, interesting.

I think is my favorite part of your post. I also find it funny you talk about the sexuality being tone down when you main Ayane.

I don't, but I play Mila. Ryu, Hayate, Rig and Bayman as subs but still my main is a lady, so yea, same boat I guess. I think you refer to HajinShinobi tho ! If you look at my location I'm from France !

I don't really care about sexuality being toned down or not tbh, they can keep it the DoA5 way or make it disappear, it'll not change the way I play.
I quoted it before they kinda talk about it in every interview like it's a big deal. Making a big ass sign fall on a rail and destroy a subway with everyone in it is super ok but please don't show that woman's white panties !! Fun times.

I just hope this game will be more than " Exactly DoA5 but with some casual gamer shit on top to ruin it ". Fingers crossed.

 

[Normal]

Like it or not, DoA6 has a meter, its not going anywhere. I see no harm in making conversations to have it act in more ways than just being a glorified power move. Adding mechanics like the hold to it adds a deeper level of thought process to holds as well as keeping the meter from reaching max too often. More things that use meter, the less you'll see supers used.

There exist many opinions and options to improve meter though. Everyone worried about current performance of meter from E3.
Team Ninja must receive intelligent scope of desired changes.

Things to consider:
▪ Break blow appears too often
》Options:
》▪ Reduce meter gain
》▪ Include more meter usage moves:
》》▪ sidestep attack
》》▪ fatal rush
》》▪ base hold
》》》▪ how to balance hold usage meter?
》》》▪ should meter become split into divisions? 2? 4? 8? 2 & 8?

team ninja need help if oversight as this has occurred.

Consider 2 primary divisions in meter for "large" usage, and 4 smaller divisions in each 2 for "small" usage
[ {1} {2} {3} {4} ] [ {5} {6} {7} {8} ]
1 Small usage contains:
▪Fatal Rush ×1 hit ( ×4 full combo ) ?
▪Hold? But also increase power of hold.
▪???
1 Large usage contains:
▪sidestep attack
▪break blow
▪break hold
▪OR fatal rush full-auto, but cancellable

what are your thoughts?

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

I think is my favorite part of your post. I also find it funny you talk about the sexuality being tone down when you main Ayane. Anyway, I'm with you on the catering to people who will play these games for two weeks and disappear. I really don't get this. It's getting bad when a company like arc made BBTAG easy on purpose so they could see more Americans in top 8 at EVO.

That's not HajinShinobi, the Ayane player you are talking about. He has his own account here if I'm correct.

 

[MasterHavik]

I didn't know, interesting.



I don't, but I play Mila. Ryu, Hayate, Rig and Bayman as subs but still my main is a lady, so yea, same boat I guess. I think you refer to HajinShinobi tho ! If you look at my location I'm from France !

I don't really care about sexuality being toned down or not tbh, they can keep it the DoA5 way or make it disappear, it'll not change the way I play.
I quoted it before they kinda talk about it in every interview like it's a big deal. Making a big ass sign fall on a rail and destroy a subway with everyone in it is super ok but please don't show that woman's white panties !! Fun times.

I just hope this game will be more than " Exactly DoA5 but with some casual gamer shit on top to ruin it ". Fingers crossed.

Oh my bad. LOL! I misread. Either way, I think you made an excellent post.

 

[ryu_highabusa]

There are already many things in the game to counter holds

Such as?

Throws........? That's all I got.

But you can't cancel out of a string with a throw like you can cancel out of a stun with a hold.

 

[MasterHavik]

Such as?

Throws........? That's all I got.

 

[Onryoki]

Throws........? That's all I got.

Because that’s literally the only thing...

 

[MasterHavik]

Because that’s literally the only thing...

I would think so.

 

[Sotherius]

Throws are the only direct counter, but you can...

Do a different strike than the type of hold the enemy is doing, you can delay strings, you can use different types of stuns, you can launch.