Some gameplay issues with DOA6?

[Tokkosho]

If you really wanted to discuss DOA6, then why did you get into a rant about DOA4, argue and insult members who disagreed with you, got banned, made a new account once again ranting and raving about DOA4 and called the mod who banned you a derogatory word that'll get you banned again while once again insulting everyone in the thread who doesn't agree with you and just now talking about DOA6?

 

[Gillian01]

If you really wanted to discuss DOA6, then why did you get into a rant about DOA4, argue and insult members who disagreed with you, got banned, made a new account once again ranting and raving about DOA4 and called the mod who banned you a derogatory word that'll get you banned again while once again insulting everyone in the thread who doesn't agree with you and just now talking about DOA6?

The first half of my initial post with this account was just what I was in the middle of writing up before I got banned. The discussion turned to DOA4 because I praised it and other denied it. As soon as I started bringing out the big guns known as facts, the arbitrary argument against my posts grew even less intelligent. I'm not saying Highabusa is the smartest member in this thread cause he's obviously just parroting opinions, but just where do you think he got those opinions? He got them from here. He got them from shitty DOA faux-fan communities populated by a literal minority audience trying their best to avoid a future DOA game with mechanics that required too much of them. I'm all for inclusivity, but come on - we're talking about DOA here, and DOA4 was probably the absolute lowest skill floor pick-up-and-play fighting game ever made. The great thing about DOA4 was its inclusivity of having a very low skill floor but very high skill ceiling. You could toss out holds all day but you weren't gonna be landing those holds consistently without a lot of time and experience learning the movesets.
The recap is I said DOA4 was good, someone else said it wasn't, I countered, and then whatever possible discussion there was just evaporated after a slew of totally nonsense posts like "DOA4 wasn't competitive, DOA5 sold well" which just aren't even reflected by reality.
DOA4 was great, but it could have been better and a few of those better ideas were put into DOA5 like longer hold recovery and shorter active frames.

I am absolutely free to insist DOA4 is a great game, but seriously I came into this thread posting about DOA6.

Edit:
Correction, this IS my thread.

 

[KasumiLover]

Added that to my favorites XD

Plus I thought this was a DOA6 gameplay thread and not a DOA4 one >.> Either way my only issue still is with the fatal rush combo, that and apparently the deeper the stun is, the weaker the launch will be??

Well I can't say thats bad, we don't have CBs anymore and if you're already gonna get a mean amount of damage from a stun with the possibility of a hi counter throw, I think a weaker stun will be good since it'll prevent any ridiculous long combo set ups after a stun set up. It'll probably hurt combo heavy characters as well too, like I feel Kasumi. and Phase especially won't be able do stuff like 33K>4P>8K~P+K~P>PP6PK anymore, she'll have to keep it cute and cut down some bulk >.>

 

[Raansu]

DOA5 is just DOA3 with PBs and CBs and PLs and Sidestep attacks with better designed stages that aren't immediately broken by the variety of broken mechanics that DOA3 stages exacerbate. There is not a single ounce of any of the upgraded and updated mechanics from DOA4 implemented into DOA5.

What updated mechanics? Seriously I gotta know what you consider updated mechanics when DoA4 stripped all the mechanics from doa 2 and doa3 and completely altered the stun system, the game literally played NOTHING like a DoA game. The only real major change they made was adding the ground tech and high kicks on wake up. Everything else was stripped down or removed from previous games. How can a game be an upgrade when it removes almost all tech from the game turning it into a shallow fighter?

And @Rikuto, you are an actual bitch.
View attachment 25126

You are all delusional idiots who must ban anyone who argues with your mongoloid fringe opinion of DOA4 because facts of reality and objective proof are inarguable from your approach. You cannot win the argument with sensibility so you resort to banning.
Time and time and time and time and time and time again, ya'll gang up and scare away DOA4 fans. This wasn't about the FGC at all, ya'll just cant handle the facts of DOA4.

Ya'll are fucking trash. You actually are trash.

Your opinions about DoA4 had nothing to do with why Rikuto deleted your old account. The bold lines are why you got removed and more than likely this new account you made will be gone tomorrow, especially since you @'d Rikuto. I doubt he would have bothered looking at this thread again otherwise.

No one here cares that you enjoy DoA4. Most of us enjoyed DoA4 on a fun level, but you never once provided any mechanical argument on why it was a good competitive game. Most of us here separate the two. Just because we didn't believe the game was a good competitive game doesn't mean a lot of us didn't have fun with the game, we just accepted that at its core it was a shallow fighter not suited for competitive play.

You never countered once with any technical reasoning on why you thought DoA4 was a good competitive fighter. You just devolved into "DoA4 is great, DoA5 is trash and you're all fucking idiots for thinking otherwise." I'm paraphrasing obviously, but ya you started insulting people and that's when you got the boot.

Edit:

Whether the mods think this is off topic or not, I'll let them decide. It may be off tangent a bit, but for me personally I believe the conversation should occur as I don't want to see DoA become a shallow fighter again. I want to see DoA to continue to evolve from what made DoA2,3 and 5 such solid fighters. DoA4 went backwards, I don't want to see that happen again.

 

[ryu_highabusa]

I could honestly care less about the DOA tournament scene as is because there are so few people involved in the bubble of the scene.

Then why post tourney vids from DOA4 events with turnouts I can count on one-hand?

And how can anyone actually say or believe DOA5 is "DOA4.5"
DOA5 is just DOA3 with PBs and CBs and PLs and Sidestep attacks with better designed stages that aren't immediately broken by the variety of broken mechanics that DOA3 stages exacerbate. There is not a single ounce of any of the upgraded and updated mechanics from DOA4 implemented into DOA5.

Here is how you get max damage launches and juggles in each DOA:

DOA1: Stun > Launch
DOA2: Stun > Launch
DOA3: Stun > Launch
DOA4: Stun > Stun > Stun > Stun > Launch
DOA5: Stun > Stun > Stun > Critical Burst > Launch

DOA5 is basically DOA4.5. If DOA5 was like DOA3, I might actually play it a decent amount.

The whole point of this community has been to tear down DOA4 and put DOA3 on an undeserved pedestal.

I mean, the only person that's brought up either game has been you...

Thats why there are DOA3 mechanics in DOA5 like unlimited relaunchers

That's not a thing.

and stupid juggle potential for select few characters.

That's not a thing.

Thats why there are DOA3 stages in DOA5.

Really? lmao you are completely delusional

Thats why DOA4-tier hold damage doesn't exist in the game.

What are you talking about?
These are all for Ayane:

DOA3:

DOA4:

DOA5LR:

Thats why there are fewer hold opportunities from stun unlike DOA4.

Yes, the devs took the most glaring flaw in DOA4 and made it slightly less worse in DOA5. What is my incentive to attack in DOA4 if you can literally hold out of everything? Like, the most effective way to play is to bait holds and throws. Attacking is reckless and pointless in DOA4.

You are all delusional idiots who must ban anyone who argues with your mongoloid fringe opinion of DOA4 because facts of reality and objective proof are inarguable from your approach. You cannot win the argument with sensibility so you resort to banning.
This wasn't about the FGC at all, ya'll just cant handle the facts of DOA4.

You haven't stated one factual thing. You just keep yelling "DOA4 is good" ad nauseam but can't justify it without lying. Like, maybe you enjoyed the game, but you haven't explained why.

 

[Brute]

And @Rikuto, you are an actual bitch.
View attachment 25126

You are all delusional idiots who must ban anyone who argues with your mongoloid fringe opinion of DOA4 because facts of reality and objective proof are inarguable from your approach. You cannot win the argument with sensibility so you resort to banning.
Time and time and time and time and time and time again, ya'll gang up and scare away DOA4 fans. This wasn't about the FGC at all, ya'll just cant handle the facts of DOA4.

Ya'll are fucking trash. You actually are trash.

I disagreed and debated with pretty much everyone. But instead of banning me, they made me a moderator. So I'm going to go ahead and say that your theory is bogus. You weren't banned for holding a contradictory opinion. You were banned for being a toxic, incorrigible ass, and that behavior will get you banned pretty much anywhere that has moderators who bother to log in and read posts.

Plenty of users here have frequent debates, and many of their positions run contra to the more popular opinions of the long-standing competitive community. If that behavior alone got you banned, I would have been banned a long time ago.

I'm not sure what you think you'll achieve by creating multiple accounts. It's not like anyone here has been receptive to what you're peddling. May as well take your ironically fringe opinions elsewhere, where you might find some like-minded individuals.

Edit:
Correction, this IS my thread.

Yeah, but it's not your forum. People think that they're free to post whatever the hell they want on "their" profile or in "their" thread, but they forget that it's on someone else's website, and if they don't want what you're posting, they can remove it. You don't get to make the rules on someone else's website.

 

[NewWestFan]

I see with a single post he managed to derail a lot of the conversation again.

What a well dressed troll.

 

[jjinkou2]

80% of this thread is irrelevant, and useless.

 

[NightAntilli]

the only thing I really liked about doa4 was that the gameplay seemed or was faster, forcetech setups that led to unholdable situations, and diverse stages. Other than that, I pretty much hated the game and all of its existence. Crushes were OP, you had to deal with 3 wake up kicks, you could essentially hold out of everything and holds dealt so much damage. It was fun, but I couldn’t take it seriously.

I just want a doa with good neutral lol.

From my perspective, the 3 wake-up kicks are really a non-issue, considering the amount of setups that were present to force-tech your opponent. You could keep your pressure going for as long as you wanted to.
The most retarded thing about DOA4 is that holding at the right time while in deep stun could actually give you advantage over the attacking opponent.

 

[DestructionBomb]

The most retarded thing about DOA4 is that holding at the right time while in deep stun could actually give you advantage over the attacking opponent.

That still happens in DOA5 as well (not a huge one, only 3 characters from what I noticed). Particularly Leon, Raidou and Brad Wong but fortunately it's not a lot from the movesets (roughly 1-2 moves). Think this can happen from moves with huge recovery from the offset after it hits.

Brad Wong is left at -3 from a BT mid kick of his if it lands on NH, which can happen if someone crouches and gets hit with NH. Raidou is left at -1 from a mid attack that's both on NH and CH if someone instantly holds right after without even staggering out. It can look like a terrible offense game if it's against a character who has an i9-i11.

 

[Raansu]

80% of this thread is irrelevant, and useless.

Personally I consider it relevant. Anyone who advocates the return of DoA4 gameplay I'm going to debate against. I don't ever want to see DoA4 ever come back.

 

[Raansu]

-So one gameplay issue I would like to point out that should definitely be solved: The opponent doesn't incur a stun penalty for letting go of their block or for inputting a wrong/mistimed counter. This issue was prevalent in both DoA 4 & 5.

Yes they do. Any unblocked hit that doesn't cause a critical stun causes a hit stun that has a small recovery frame to the player hit.

The wall mechanics can be better well adjusted; some moves should collide with the wall more & some shouldn't. (I personally would like an integration of both DoA 4 Wall mechanics & DoA 5 wall mechanics; have some moves cause a wall-splat (for combo continuity) & have some moves cause a wall-bounce (For combo finishers)

I don't want anything from DoA4 wall mechanics. They were awful. I took the effort to push you towards a wall. If I slam you into the wall I should be rewarded with the wall bounce.

 

[Raansu]

Having experimented with this issue I can give you one example that you can actually test yourself;
-Go to the character select screen & select Mila
-Player record Mila & input PPPP
-Return to your original character; Block the first two punches & let go of your block on the 3rd punch- You'll see the character incurs no stun. This same instance occurs if the player blocks the first three punches & lets go of their block on the 4th punch.
-Such tests can be repeated throughout the roster with similar results.

- What would you consider the positives & negatives of DoA 4 wall mechanics & DoA 5 wall mechanics

- You had no objections to the Danger Zone idea so I'm going to assume your further consideration of it as plausible

-If you're referring to a critical stun, the third punch doesn't do that because on normal hit it doesn't have that stun property. It only causes a hit stun. I have no idea what you're talking about on the 4th punch as it does cause a critical stun.

-I don't consider anything positive about doa4 wall mechanics. They used the wall bounce from doa3, but changed the properties on it so you could hold out of it. DoA5 with its version of wall bounce was a good compromise that allowed a small juggle instead of a max height launcher and should remain the way it is.

-My opinion of danger zones is they shouldn't be allowed to be turned off. That's a core of doa and its stages.

 

[NewWestFan]

This example can be applied at Lost World, Temple of the Dragon, as well as Home.

That stage needs to be burned and forgotten.

 

[Brute]

-Exactly why doesn't the 3rd punch carry a stun even though the opponent let go of their block? I can understand a normal hit not having a stun property, but if the opponent lets their guard down- shouldn't that be granted a stun?

If the opponent lets down their guard, that's NH. That's what NH is. When you get hit when you're not attacking. What you're suggesting is that every hit become a NH stun.

You didn't describe a positive instance of the wall mechanics in DoA 4- One being that if player stagger escapes quickly enough they are rewarded back in neutral & a further combo is prevented.

That would be another negative.

 

[Raansu]

-Exactly why doesn't the 3rd punch carry a stun even though the opponent let go of their block? I can understand a normal hit not having a stun property, but if the opponent lets their guard down- shouldn't that be granted a stun?

You didn't describe a positive instance of the wall mechanics in DoA 4- One being that if player stagger escapes quickly enough they are rewarded back in neutral & a further combo is prevented. The title will remain out of the discussion as you are seemingly biased against it

- In proposing the idea I said the stage would not be effected; only the area of the stage. For Example- Lorelei- if the game randomly spawns you at any point in the map; Danger Zone Off would permit that you stay in that area so objects would still remain to be used in the stages. This example can be applied at Lost World, Temple of the Dragon, as well as Home.

-Like I said, it doesn't cause a critical stun because it doesn't carry that property on normal hit. Now, if I tried to attack and you counter hit me? Ya then its gonna have a critical stun with it, but I don't agree with what you are suggesting which would basically turn this game even more stun heavy than it already is.

-Because to me there are no positives to doa4's wall mechanics. If you stagger escaped off the wall bounce in 4 you didn't go back to neutral, you immediately fell down to the ground, and it was beyond stupid. Why would I take the effort to position you toward a wall only for me to be punished for making that effort? No, that's dumb. You allowed yourself to get positioned toward a wall, you allowed yourself to get slammed into the wall. Why should you get a third chance at escaping? What reason would I have to even try to go for the wall if I get nothing out of it? This is the very reason I avoided walls in DoA4. Good players just staggered out of it, immediately fell to the floor and now I have to deal with a wake up kick even though I should have gotten rewarded for pushing you to the wall.

-I just don't see the point of this. Part of DoA's meta is position of the stage. If you don't want to get knocked off the side, make sure you're positioned so it doesn't happen.

 

[NightAntilli]

Being at a disadvantage after a normal hit is stupid. If I punch you in the face in neutral, I should get the advantage. It doesn't have to necessarily be a stun. It simply needs to be a frame advantage.

The obvious exception to this is quick lows.

 

[Raansu]

Being at a disadvantage after a normal hit is stupid. If I punch you in the face in neutral, I should get the advantage. It doesn't have to necessarily be a stun. It simply needs to be a frame advantage.

The obvious exception to this is quick lows.

Generally speaking its only a disadvantage if you free cancel after the hitstun.

 

[MasterHavik]

DOA 4 is like Brawl to me a game that failed on both a casual and high level because of its dumb mechanics. Also this Ct/Gillian dude is BLUEBERRY contradicting WAFFLE. I started with 4 and thanks with playing 5 and buying 3 back in the days on xbox and playing it on 360. I quickly realize how bad DOA 4 was as a game. Granted, I hated the game since my boy Zack was pretty much a snack to Genfu and the ninjas. I hated being crush so easily for trying to play neutral. I didn't like losing 60% of my life bar on the bridge vs. Ryu because of his throw and stupid holds. I didn't like being crush easily by Ayane and Genfu and eating 50% of my life for it.

I had to deal with all this when I played DOA 4. DOA 4 got me into competitive fighters but thank god I found SC4 and other fighting games that are MUCH better than DOA 4. I started playing DOA Online recently which is DOA 2U for PC and I CHOCOLATE CANDY love the game despite Zack being trash in it. It is so much STRAWBERRY MILKSHAKE fun.

 

[Raansu]

DOA 4 is like Brawl to me a game that failed on both a casual an high level because of its dumb mechanics. Also this Ct/Gillian dude is fucking contradicting piece of shit. I started with 4 and thanks with playing 5 and buying 3 back in the days on xbox and palying it on 360. I quickly realize how bad DOA 4 was as a game. Granted, I hated the game since my boy Zack was pretty much a snack to Genfu and the ninjas. I hated being crush so easily for trying to paly neutral. I didn't like losing 60% of my life bar on the bridge vs. Ryu because of his throw and stupid holds. I didn't like being crush easily by Ayane and Genfu and eating 50% of my life for it.

I had to deal with all this when I played DOA 4. DOA 4 got me into competitive fighters but thank god I found SC4 and other fighting games that are MUCH better than DOA 4. I started playing DOA Online recently which is DOA 2U for PC and I fucking love the game despite Zack being trash in it. It is so much fucking fun.

To be fair, smash bros. was never meant to be a competitive game and was always intended to be a party game, and honestly DoA4 was basically the same. With DoA2U the community started picking up and when players actually got to talk to Itagaki....he would say some really awkward things like grapplers should never be able to beat a ninja.

He also did weird things like had VF players playtest DoA4, and when he saw how DoA was being played correctly he started stripping DoA4 down and a lot of us believe this is why the game was delayed and didn't come out on 360 launch as the game was significantly different from the X05 build. Then the patch a month later removed what he missed like Zach's 2-n-1 string and some other guard break mechanics that were giving advantage. Don't remember a lot of it, but some really good stuff was taken out.

Basically I think most of us believe Itagaki made DoA2 and 3 good on accident lol. He seemed to never wanted DoA to be a competitive fighter, and his comments about DoA5 being apparently too difficult for beginners was kind of telling of how he wanted doa to be.